In this case, I would rather not submit, as again I do not want Round 2 to obsolete a pure Any% run, as I do not want the Any% category to require beating Round 2.
For just a dozen minutes in a 3 hour movie, I think nobody will complain if it's just included in the main run. If it was like an extra hour we could have it as a separate branch and call it something like "both rounds". but for such a short addition I think it's fine to include.
Just giving some feedback as someone who care a lot about TASing, but is not too familiar with Pokemon: including a goal like this lumped in sort of compromises record-keeping as an any% run, given this is a separate goal, not a traditional mid-run speed-entertainment tradeoff or something similar.
I do understand an idea of efficiency with a mostly redundant run, but I also think it's important to set a good precedent for future obsoletion and have a carefully considered run endpoint.
I found that the RNG address ($0379 WRAM) in Dirty Racing (Game Boy) will be set to a different initial value when starting in GB mode, in GBC mode or in GBA mode.
The RNG value that can be achieved when starting in GBA mode will give the most favorable outcome.
Is it ok to TAS this Game Boy game in GBA mode?
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M3 wrote:
Hello.
https://youtu.be/ClFSXWVz0i4?feature=shared
Well, this is a TAS for X5 'Extreme Collect', and I thought of a route that should be faster.
But that route would make me lose probably one power-up part, and to be exact, it's Matterex's.
Would this route still be valid for Extreme Collect?
Since the goal of the current publication is "maximum items" (I fixed the branch to say that, it was wrongly renamed to 100% after publication), it can't be obsoleted by collecting fewer items, only more. Or the same amount but in shorter time.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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MUGG wrote:
I found that the RNG address ($0379 WRAM) in Dirty Racing (Game Boy) will be set to a different initial value when starting in GB mode, in GBC mode or in GBA mode.
The RNG value that can be achieved when starting in GBA mode will give the most favorable outcome.
Is it ok to TAS this Game Boy game in GBA mode?
Backwards compatibility modes, such as running Game Boy games in Game Boy Advance mode, are allowed if a physical console (or the game) supports it, unless there significant glitches.
For the purposes of Movie Rules we define significant glitches as audio, video, and/or gameplay-affecting glitches apparent to people unfamiliar with the game.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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RetroEdit wrote:
Just giving some feedback as someone who care a lot about TASing, but is not too familiar with Pokemon: including a goal like this lumped in sort of compromises record-keeping as an any% run, given this is a separate goal, not a traditional mid-run speed-entertainment tradeoff or something similar.
I do understand an idea of efficiency with a mostly redundant run, but I also think it's important to set a good precedent for future obsoletion and have a carefully considered run endpoint.
Efficiency is not the goal of the rules, we embrace variety these days. It's just that 10% of extra content after 90% of identical content is yet another edge case that no rule can resolve nicely while not setting the opposite precedent too, like "okay from now on, 10% difference is officially enough for a new branch".
In short games 10 minutes could be majority of the run, and it'd be clear that a given branch is transformative enough to co-exist. But actual videogames never limited themselves to concepts that our rules try to rely on, so there will never be satiable match between them.
If they are turned into the same category, indeed obsoletion becomes a problem because rejecting a run without round 2 after "both rounds" was published would be bad. And rejecting the latter would be bad. Sending both rounds to Playground would technically fit its purpose but nobody likes it anymore because it was never fully developed.
Maybe it could just be sent to Alternative and be done with. But again I would feel weird infinitely pushing the difference borderline effectively towards 0. If 10% is now enough, soon 1% will be enough, if all other options are as bad as the ones I listed above. Then 0.1% would be enough, etc. And then we wonder why even have rules or any kind of publication system at all, if all that system does is limiting things?
Also technically, for things that are only 1% different or less, we have secondary publication files. I don't know if it'd be enough for a "both rounds" movie.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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arukAdo wrote:
I have difficulties to make decisions about obsoleting [2657] PSX Castlevania: Symphony of the Night "pacifist, low level" by ForgoneMoose in 21:08.62
I'll try to be specific;
The pub movie does 5 kills (gaibon/slogra/doppleganger/venus/dracula), and use replay mode (dirty sram), the reason for this is to acquire the duplicator and make a long chain of Heart Refresh at the end to skip shaft boss, without that it would be 6 kills (and lot faster as well).
Now im planning on using a different version of the game (the original jp release) that allow to skip shaft without the long chain of Heart Refresh due to a bug present only in this version, and reduce kills to 3 (doppleganger/sword master/dracula) because you dont need to kill anymore the venus.
Because I dont need anymore the duplicator at the end, should I not use dirty sram?
This does have multiple consequences in term of routing and/or speed, aside the duplicator use for skiping shaft, it enable to buy the shurikens (infinite uses) to kill dracula quicker or replinish mana.
If I forgo sram usage, killing dracula will be notacibly slower, it will also force me to go trough at least 4 dialogues sequences, they can only be skip with replay mode and they ammount for several minutes (more than 5).
I dont really believe having a pub with and without replay mode would make much sence (for a pacifist run anyway), the gameplay differences would be relativly small aside the extra time spent to kill dracula but there is some differences.
That been sayd if it helps in the decision making, I could make a seperate movie for both options if thats the best course of action, but it is time consuming.
Lastly, the current pub is labeled as "pacifist - low level", while my movie will have less kill, it will also have higher level/exp gain, does this mean the current pub could potentially been a seperate branch on its own? or should this sub-category "low level" just go away ? (just to be clear, this would mean theres room for obsoleting it with a 4 kills run on usa version).
Any guidance will be much appreciated
It looks like the "low level" part of the current pub is just the result of its pacifism. I wasn't very mindful during judging back in 2014 so I didn't change the submitted label, but now it looks like it's just "pacifist". Extra labels are only needed if they affect the goal, usually by making the run slower without the extra restrictions.
If switching to clear saveram loses time while increasing repetitiveness, I'd advocate for using dirty sram also, because "pacifist" is still not a Standard goal, so it can't get all the variations of standard goals published.
As for using a different version, I think unique glitches make it worthwhile, but since it's not a standard goal either, it boils down to differences between the 2 "pacifist" movies when deciding whether to obsolete or let them co-exist.
Can you explain the differences more extensively between 2 saveram pacifist movies if they were done on different versions of the game? Also dropping saveram anchor from the new one would make them more or less different?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Can you explain the differences more extensively between 2 saveram pacifist movies if they were done on different versions of the game? Also dropping saveram anchor from the new one would make them more or less different?
Yes I can explain, like I mentioned on usa version you need to do the long (~30sec) chain of Heart Refresh at the end to skip the boss before dracula, this can only be done with the duplicator, which the librarian only sell in replay mode (dirty sram).
This jp original release contain a bug that let me avoid this long sequence (it is fix in usa version)
The premise of the "new" route is to avoid gaibon and slogra (first boss) by "wasting" the free Heart Refresh you get from prologue, and since you dont need to get extra Heart Refresh for jp version (exclusive bug) it mean the duplicator itself isnt required either, if forgo sram usage the other big difference is the ~8min of dialogues that you are forced to wait on, affecting slightly the route you have to take.
I dont have yet strong evidence that this new movie would use the duplicator as im still trying to use an alternative for killing dracula quick; the difference of getting the duplicator seems less important than I would have imagine at first and in term of speed it should be within two dozen seconds at worse of gameplay.
I intend to verify and accuratly determine this speed difference, it could very well be that skipping the duplicator is actually faster and not slower (!), meaning sram usage would only affect dialogues in the end.
The expected result (sram or not) for this new movie (jp version) is 3 kills.
The current (usa) movie is 5 kills.
A new movie that would obsolete the current (usa) within same subgoal of "low level" is expected to be 4 kills , it would be essentially the same movie but different targets (skip first boss -2, get one more Heart Refresh in caverns +1)
The jp movie cannot end with "low level" because a level up is required to achieve 1 less kill (ironically) and usa cannot skip to end boss because it lack the extra bug (forcing duplicator usage).
It is also possible to make a "low level" movie with jp but then you would end up at 4 kills like if you were to obsolete the usa one, this would make little sence since it can achieve 3 in the first place, it would ironically also skip the long sequence of Heart Refresh at the end while still needing to get 2 in the first castle, so on the paper its possibly faster but jp cannot use fire boomrang (crash the game... fixed in usa) crippling the speed in several places.
Hope it answered your question, I realize I just explained the "result" difference but not gameplay; it boil down to visiting different rooms, obtaining different relic, but it is not a "lot" in the sence you wont visit new parts of the castle, just different order/routing which of course lead to slightly different speeds
Efficiency is not the goal of the rules, we embrace variety these days. It's just that 10% of extra content after 90% of identical content is yet another edge case that no rule can resolve nicely while not setting the opposite precedent too, like "okay from now on, 10% difference is officially enough for a new branch".
[...]
Maybe it could just be sent to Alternative and be done with. But again I would feel weird infinitely pushing the difference borderline effectively towards 0. If 10% is now enough, soon 1% will be enough, if all other options are as bad as the ones I listed above. Then 0.1% would be enough, etc. And then we wonder why even have rules or any kind of publication system at all, if all that system does is limiting things
This is a well-written post that illuminates your thought process here. Balancing between publishing distinctive movies and allowing and using the most meaningful goals is a useful perspective I'll keep in mind for the future.
