Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
thommy3 wrote:
Could the best stages be hexed together? Couple of frames to gain then, right?
The different damage strategies by every team would probably mess that up.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Are people interesting in having it sooner or later?
Meaning, are you guys burned out from DTC5, want to try to work on other stuff, school is busy right now, etc?
As long as the time limit is similar (i.e. I can spread my work and plan around real life), I'm okay with starting again soon. But trying to plan it so the participation is similar seems best.
Mothrayas wrote:
thommy3 wrote:
Could the best stages be hexed together? Couple of frames to gain then, right?
The different damage strategies by every team would probably mess that up.
The first two levels of Team 3's run could easily be pasted in front of the rest of Team 1's run, if nothing else. I think those levels all end with full health. If nobody else is interested, I could just pick the best stages, see if they line up and hex them together later today. Seems pointless to have a known sub-optimal run to me.
The result and the game actually look really nice. Maybe I’ll participate next time.
Hope someone will work on putting everyone’s best inputs together for a massive collaborative TAS submission.
edit: I'm going to update this post each time I modified something.
List of improvements added to V7 http://pastebin.com/Zn2xWp87
Timesheet http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BkA607KZFXguP2Ps1rvPsqbfyxNQXY_3QJyvJTS8G88/edit?usp=sharing
Version 7 User movie #20597948781701404 (65)
Version 6 User movie #20554752230643976 (59 @ mission6 start)
Version 5 User movie #20551259081411075 (56 @ mission6 start)
Version 4 User movie #20539447403495593 (53, desyncs because of a bug at mission7)
Version 3 User movie #20515682161543102 (54, desyncs at F28357 M4R4, would be 49 if it would synced)
Version 2 User movie #20513288744457209 (22)
Version 1 User movie #20511612708416611 (11)
The input parts of the movie (V7):
- MMM route of Mission 1+2 (Mission 2 contain's AAA's speed cycle, doesn't changes framecount)
- MMM+AAA route of Mission 3 with all AAA improvements
- Team 2/4/6/7/10/11's jump @ Mission 3 Room 4 ~F21300 (list of teams who did this 11 frame improvement over AAA and MMM)
- AAA Mission 4 route with MMM improvements (many frames)
- SAC Mission 5 Room 1-2 with improvements (2 frames, they had different weapon so isn't comparable directly)
- TTT Mission 5 Room 3-4 with better speed cycles (5 frames)
- AAA Mission 6 with MMM's Boss (4 frames)
- AAA Mission 7
The Mission 4 Room 4 "5 frame loss" has been reduced to 2~3 frames.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
Nach wrote:
Are people interesting in having it sooner or later?
Meaning, are you guys burned out from DTC5, want to try to work on other stuff, school is busy right now, etc?
DTC5 was actually a huge motivation boost for me to work on other projects. The only burnout I'm suffering is on Metal Force itself, so I'd be interested in having it sooner rather than later.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Are people interesting in having it sooner or later?
Meaning, are you guys burned out from DTC5, want to try to work on other stuff, school is busy right now, etc?
DTC5 was actually a huge motivation boost for me to work on other projects. The only burnout I'm suffering is on Metal Force itself, so I'd be interested in having it sooner rather than later.
Agreed. Having it fairly soon would be good.
Current TAS:
[SNES] Jelly Boy
[NES] Street Fighter 2010
edit: I'm going to update this post each time I modified something.
Version 2 User movie #20513288744457209 (22)
Version 1 User movie #20511612708416611 (11)
I resynced up to Mission 4 with
- MMM route of Mission 1+2 (Mission 2 contain's AAA's speed cycle, doesn't changes framecount)
- MMM+AAA route of Mission 3 with all AAA improvements
- Team 6's jump @ Mission 3 Room 4 ~F21300 (11 frames)
11+11 frames saved/maintained at start of Mission 4 compared to AAA's submission.
Weird. I couldn't even get your mission 1+2 w/our rest of the run to sync using TAS editor
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
The YouTube embeds in this thread can now be played back in 60 FPS on supported browsers.
Regarding DTC6, how does starting in March sound?
How do you guys feel about using lsnes for DTC6?
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
By the way, here are some tables of the stage-by-stage results of the competition:
Frame timings (start frame of mission/start of ending)
MISS1 MISS2 MISS3 MISS4 MISS5 MISS6 MISS7 ENDING
TEAM 1 201 8379 15454 23309 30877 35288 40837 47875
TEAM 2 201 8397 15473 23405 31019 35435 41053 48111
TEAM 3 201 8371 15444 23343 30908 37647 43282 50513
TEAM 4 201 8448 15524 23512 31419 35846 41470 48561
TEAM 5 201 8458 15544 23572 31717 36151 41873 48977
TEAM 6 201 8389 15474 23367 31206 35618 41268 48349
TEAM 7 201 8437 15513 23488 31272 35683 41250 48335
TEAM 10 201 8408 15491 23434 31041 35478 41130 48228
TEAM 11 201 8458 15550 23602 31484 35929 41629 48747
Stage timing (t2-t1)
MISS1 MISS2 MISS3 MISS4 MISS5 MISS6 MISS7
TEAM 1 8178 7075 7855 7568 4411 5549 7038
TEAM 2 8196 7076 7932 7614 4416 5618 7058
TEAM 3 8170 7073 7899 7565 6739 5635 7231
TEAM 4 8247 7076 7988 7907 4427 5624 7091
TEAM 5 8257 7086 8028 8145 4434 5722 7104
TEAM 6 8188 7085 7893 7839 4412 5650 7081
TEAM 7 8236 7076 7975 7784 4411 5567 7085
TEAM 10 8207 7083 7943 7607 4437 5652 7098
TEAM 11 8257 7092 8052 7882 4445 5700 7118
Volatility 87 19 197 580 2328 173 193
Average 8215,11 7080,22 7951,66 7767,88 4681,33 5635,22 7100,44
Frames loss in comparison to fastest (0 = fastest):
MISS1 MISS2 MISS3 MISS4 MISS5 MISS6 MISS7
TEAM 1 8 2 0 3 0 0 0
TEAM 2 26 3 77 49 5 69 20
TEAM 3 0 0 44 0 2328 86 193
TEAM 4 77 3 133 342 16 75 53
TEAM 5 87 13 173 580 23 173 66
TEAM 6 18 12 38 274 1 101 43
TEAM 7 66 3 120 219 0 18 47
TEAM 10 37 10 88 42 26 103 60
TEAM 11 87 19 197 317 34 151 80
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
The YouTube embeds in this thread can now be played back in 60 FPS on supported browsers.
Regarding DTC6, how does starting in March sound?
How do you guys feel about using lsnes for DTC6?
I think I would wait a few more months before taking another beating : )
I don't know anything about lsnes but could learn it.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
Nach wrote:
How do you guys feel about using lsnes for DTC6?
I suppose it'd be an excuse to learn the emulator... I don't think it should be strictly required, though, if only because lsnes isn't exactly the most user-friendly emulator out there. DTC5 was the first TAS for a lot of the entrants, and I suspect DTC6 may be the same, so it'd probably be a good idea to keep the emulator choice open.
Not to say I wouldn't be opposed if it were put into place, but I'd recommend deciding on that ASAP to give people as long as possible to learn lsnes before jumping into a competition with people who are far more used to it.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
lsnes isn't exactly the most user-friendly emulator out there.
Lsnes isn't that user-unfriendly as you think anymore, it was only the first release. But I do agree emulator choice should be free.
I would prefer september for DTC6.
Thanks Moth for all the effort you put into organizing this. It was really well done. The ghost encode in particular is hilarious, like a little army of metal forces doing the conga line.
Prophesy which turned out to be true:
<Truncated> god, it will feel like such a waste improving this 3 frames when it turns out we are behind by 200 frames when the results are posted
Yeah, not finding the stupid pause glitch annoyed me. I started watching team MMM's movie directly when it was posted, and right there in the first screen is a huge trick we missed. But eh, it is what it is. All teams missed out on some tricks it seems, anyway. We did our best. Thanks to my final and previous teammates for their effort!
This was a very fun contest, and gave me a big confidence boost in terms of my ability to see a large TAS project through to completion. I also learned a lot about where my skills do and do not lie - Bobo the King and I ended up breaking down the project very naturally into larger-scale planning and micro-scale optimizations, as he vastly preferred and was better at the former, and myself likewise at the latter. It wasn't a strict separation, of course, but we certainly depended on each other heavily and collaborated well, which was very nice.
It's disappointing that we missed the pause glitch thing - I kinda want to go back through our run and add it and only it in, to see how the rest of our input stacks up against the teams that did find it.
I'm definitely interested in participating in another one, but March seems very soon for me. May or June might be better, though it's hard to say exactly.
A warb degombs the brangy. Your gitch zanks and leils the warb.
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
If the community is game on doing another one (and hey, count me in, too!), how about we break it down 2x a year into seasons?
For example, this year we could do DTC Summer '15 (perhaps in May?) and DTC Winter '15 (perhaps again in November?). That way, after a 2 1/2 month competition, there's about a 3 month break period in between events.
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2178
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
Nach wrote:
Regarding DTC6, how does starting in March sound?
How do you guys feel about using lsnes for DTC6?
My current computer is not strong enough for SNES games. It ran Metal Force at 40 fps in NesHawk.
So if it's a SNES game I might not participate.
It's not like anyone would notice though.
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Warepire wrote:
My current computer is not strong enough for SNES games. It ran Metal Force at 40 fps in NesHawk.
Which CPU do you have?
I believe I can get significant better performance for certain emulators than what we're currently seeing with them.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
If doing DTC bi-yearly, perhaps the Midsummer Night's Dream Team Contest could have a shorter time and a less time-consuming game choice to compensate - two 8-10 week competitions every year would result in a competition being active for 16-20 weeks of the year, which sounds a bit excessive.
Interestingly, the #1 and #2 movies had the fewest rerecords out of the submissions; and the bottom two had the most. They may not be accurate, but it's a surprising coincidence.
Interestingly, the #1 and #2 movies had the fewest rerecords out of the submissions; and the bottom two had the most. They may not be accurate, but it's a surprising coincidence.
The two last teams used TAS Editor, which boosts up rerecords. And some rerecords are not counted, because they get lost when exchanging input files.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
turska wrote:
Interestingly, the #1 and #2 movies had the fewest rerecords out of the submissions; and the bottom two had the most. They may not be accurate, but it's a surprising coincidence.
FCEUX has a known bug where it undercounts rerecords made from traditional savestates, so non-TASEditor movies have lower rerecord counts than they should have. There are some svn versions that fix this, but I'm not sure if that fix made it to any release version.
TASeditor wrote:
The two last teams used TAS Editor, which boosts up rerecords. And some rerecords are not counted, because they get lost when exchanging input files.
Make that last three. Team 11 also submitted .fm3 files to me.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
