Posted: 10/13/2019 1:51 AM
(Edited: 10/18/2019 7:44 PM)
Post subject: Maximum Score: Unrejecting Gruefood
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WarHippy
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With the recent update to the rules on Vault eligible submissions I was wondering if there were rejected games in the past that aimed for Maximum Score when the game wasn't able to track 100% completion. I haven't gone through every rejected submission on the site (Done), but I imagine this will only apply to very few games. one game. See Below Tin Star is the only one I know of at this point. I was recently looking into TASing it which is why starting this topic occurred to me. Now unfortunately, based off the submission notes, it seems like this submission has some optimization problems. It might very well be worth rejecting again :( Any other movies come to mind for anyone?
Posted: 10/13/2019 6:53 AM
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Dimon12321
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Well, I found one more submission that is marked with "maximum score" branch name and rejected due to a mentioned reason, but it hasn't been unrejected yet. #4641: negative_seven's NES Flappy Bird "maximum score" in 5:19:36.02
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Posted: 10/13/2019 7:06 AM
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WarHippy
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Virtual Pinball doesn't actually complete the game as required per the rules, and Flappy Bird is a rom hack which pretty much has no place in Vault. (Also they're April Fools submissions...)
Posted: 10/13/2019 7:18 AM
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feos
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Dimon12321 wrote:
Well, I found one more submission that is marked with "maximum score" branch name and rejected due to a mentioned reason, but it hasn't been unrejected yet. #4641: negative_seven's NES Flappy Bird "maximum score" in 5:19:36.02
Not a notable homebrew, trivial to TAS, and the movie lasts for too long.
WarHippy wrote:
Tin Star is the only one I know of at this point. I was recently looking into TASing it which is why starting this topic occurred to me. Now unfortunately, based off the submission notes, it seems like this submission has some optimization problems. It might very well be worth rejecting again :(
I'd like an encode.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 10/13/2019 1:25 PM
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WarHippy
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Link to video Here's a link to more info about the game. Apparently there is a Best Ending at $1,000,000+. Not sure if that would disqualify it for max score. At 5:53 in the encode it looks like he shoots a health canister which means he can't get the secret bonus at the end of the level.
Posted: 10/18/2019 8:14 PM
(Edited: 11/15/2019 10:13 PM)
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WarHippy
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Alright. I have now looked through all 1,237 rejected submissions on this site. There were a few dozen submissions that aimed for maximum score, but almost all of them were rejected for sub-optimal play in addition to an (at the time) un-vaultable goal choice. The very few that made it past that first hurdle were rejected for being a homebrew/hack (which doesn't qualify for Vault) or had some other trade off that didn't let it achieve max score. Through all this there exists ONE submission which I believe should be re-judged based on the new Maximum Score rules, and that run is Submission #5554: DrD2k9's C64 Decathlon in 11:26.31 Specifically, optimization seems good and it fulfills the first bullet point of the new rules, that "There is no other way to define full completion for the game, because there is no way to collect or complete "all X" for any given criterion, aside from fastest completion."
Posted: 11/15/2019 6:41 PM
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WarHippy
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So it's been almost a month since I put forward this suggestion. Anyone have any thoughts on the matter?
Posted: 11/15/2019 7:51 PM
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DrD2k9
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WarHippy wrote:
So it's been almost a month since I put forward this suggestion. Anyone have any thoughts on the matter?
I'm fine with having it rejudged. If optimization is in question under a new judgement, I have no problem revisiting the project and improving optimization if a high score run will now be vault eligible.
Posted: 11/17/2019 7:47 AM
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feos
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WarHippy wrote:
Here's a link to more info about the game. Apparently there is a Best Ending at $1,000,000+. Not sure if that would disqualify it for max score. At 5:53 in the encode it looks like he shoots a health canister which means he can't get the secret bonus at the end of the level.
Best ending is a good variation of full completion, and in this case it happens to be score oriented as well. Playing further would make the goal arbitrary indeed.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 11/17/2019 1:21 PM
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ThunderAxe31
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I'm wondering about this rejected submission: #5897: £e_Nécroyeur's Arcade Track & Field "goofabout" in 1:06:32.72
#5897 submission text wrote:
Rather than aiming purely for a fast completion, This TAS explores the miscellanea and (im)possibilia of the game, some of which has remained the subject of debate for lo these 35 years. Hopefully, this TAS and its attendant documentation may shed some light on the mysteries of this storied and venerable game. The maximum achievement in each event is demonstrated, as well as all of the secret bonuses. Though the focus of this TAS is not on score, it does achieve a higher single-Match score than the highest recorded score...the hard way. This may be of interest to some. Additionally, the input for this TAS can be modified to loop ad indefinitum, allowing for 100% completion and/or maximum score as desired. Alternatively, the input for this TAS can be truncated for digestibility.
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
Posted: 11/17/2019 1:26 PM
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feos
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Sounds like a mere playaround to me.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.