Attributes

  • Aims for lowest real time / frame count
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Abuses minor glitches

Overview

This is an improved any% TAS of Hagane, which improves the currently published run by 3397 frames, or roughly 3950 frames after emulation differences of lsnes vs snes9x 1.43 are factored in. Record time was achieved through better general optimization, new boss fighting techniques and some minor tricks.
In this game, it's important to optimize both Hagane's positioning and the screen's positioning, as it sometimes triggers important events faster if the screen reaches certain area earlier.

Movement, tricks & glitches

Movement speeds

  • Sliding = 3 pixels per frame, lasts 32 frames. 1 frame of walking is required between slides. By far the fastest movement method, which the previous TAS failed to realize. Cannot be performed on upward slopes, so reverse tumbling is usually the best alternative for clearing those.
  • Reverse tumbling = 3 pixels per frame, takes 3 frames to initiate.
  • Spinjumping = 3 pixels per frame, lasts 48 frames. Loses variable amount of pixels before and after use depending on room structure.
  • Walking = 2 pixels per frame BUT moves screen 4 pixels per frame if Hagane isn't at the edge of the screen. All 3-speed moves only move the screen 3 pixels per frame, so this is often used to shift the screen forward right before an auto-screen-scrolling cutscene.
  • Tumbling = Same as walking.
  • Midair = 1 pixel per frame.

Wall climbing & zipping

When Hagane is using the grappling hook and moving backwards, collision detection is disabled. This can be abused to quickly climb upwards by rapidly entering walls and jumping off of them before they eject Hagane out.
Alternatively, ejection can be used to quickly zip forwards during over-or-underhanging edges. Zipping is the fastest way to move, but is not the fastest way to advance the screen's movement, as the screen only moves 1 pixel per frame forward during zipping. Therefore, it is sometimes faster to not zip and maximize the screen's movement speed instead.

Ground zipping

Although very rarely useful, it is possible to perform a minimal zip forward by performing a midair downward kick on a declining slope, and then performing a frame-perfect ground slide as Hagane lands. This saved 1 frame in both stages 1-1 and 4-1.

Auto-scroll-cutscene trigger skip

An interesting mechanic that was only implementable in stage 1-1, as there's a certain height where the auto-scroll-cutscene will not trigger anymore. By spinjumping above the trigger in order to push the screen further much faster - with 3 pixels per frame speed as opposed to the usual 1 pixel per frame (auto-scroll) speed - a bunch of frames will be saved.

Stage ending cutscene skip

At the end of stages 3-1 and 3-2, the game disables inputs, so normally you would have to wait a while for something to happen. However, there's a way to get around this by performing precisely-timed tumbling attacks. Tumbling can be buffered, even if inputs aren't being received anymore. This is performed in stages 3-1, 3-2, and 5-1.

Lag reduction

Whenever lag would be caused by sliding, spinjumping usually reduces it, while also almost being as fast of movement. Other techniques include staying crouched and eliminating as many enemies from the screen as possible.

Stage by Stage comments

With the exception of 1-4 and 3-3 (both autoscrollers), every stage has been improved compared to the previous TAS. For a more detailed list of improvements, please view the spreadsheet linked earlier.
1-1: Improved quite a bit by sliding as much as possible and performing cutscene trigger skip before both airship sequences.
1-2: Sliding and spinjumping to completely eliminate lag near the beginning. The screen is positioned further forward before the miniboss. New miniboss fighting technique which allowed for 1-rounding it.
1-3: Optimized wallclimbing further, saving many frames.
1-4: Autoscroller. Boo, 0 frames saved...
Boss 1: Lag was reduced by crouching during the boss's rising animation. Second upwards kick was performed faster by sliding to the required position instead of spinjumping.
2-1: Surprisingly only 7 frames were saved here by having the miniboss perform a better pattern.
2-2: A million frames were saved through better optimization, especially regarding the screen's position which allowed for further zipping.
2-3: Frames saved through the screen's position and moving faster.
Boss 2: Seems simple, yet over 20 frames were saved.
3-1: Sliding, sliding, sliding... saving, saving, saving the frames. Cutscene skip at the end to reach under the surface quicker.
3-2: Spinjumping a bit here to reduce lag and to destroy the breakable walls due to blocking enemies. Improved elevator-climbing section majorly by not grapple wallclimbing as the setup for it takes too long. Improved miniboss by using 3 bombs before it is even visible (nice find Omnigamer). Finally, cutscene skip implemented to save half a second.
3-3: Autoscroller. Boo, 0 frames saved again...
3-4: Autoscroller again, but this time, 2 frames were saved by spinjumping at the right edge of the screen near the end, as that's what triggers the level to end.
Boss 3: Very RNG-dependent boss. The RNG loop is ~1700 frames long, from which I tested "only" 130. This was the best result among them, saving a million frames.
4-1: Sliding, sliding, sliding.
4-2: Further optimized and added 2 more brand new zips to save a million frames.
4-3: Sliding, sliding, sliding again.
Boss 4: Brand new tech all over the place to save almost 2 seconds.
5-1: Further optimized airplane kill and faster post-train cutscene.
5-2: Better.
5-3: Sliding to get into position to upwards kick 18 frames earlier.
5-4: More and better zips, more optimization.
5-5: Much faster first zip through the face and wall, along with screen manipulation for the auto-scroll-cutscene and faster destruction of the wall near the exit.
Boss 5: Better RNG - 3 x 50% chance for arm attack, and 50% chance for exposed piece to appear at either side which is required to 1-round the boss with upwards kick + bomb - saving a million frames. Not sarcastic this time - this was the largest time save of the entire TAS, a whopping 1355 frames.
Final Boss: Better optimization by using 2 bombs instead of 1 to save almost 10 seconds.

Potential improvements

  • RNG could possibly be better in some places like Boss 3, but manually testing all of the RNG's ~1700 values would take a lot of time.
  • A few frames can probably be saved in a complex stage such as 2-1 or 4-2.

Thanks to

  • Omnigamer for providing various useful info about the game throughout the TAS and for creating useful lua scripts
  • Previous TASers (Tiger & Heisanevilgenius) for having something to compare against
  • ED

ThunderAxe31: Judging.
ThunderAxe31: File replaced with a 1 frame improvement.
ThunderAxe31: File replaced with a 31 frames improvement.
ThunderAxe31: Nicely done with the optimization! Accepting as improvement over the current publication.
feos: Pub.


TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15576
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #6060: Sniq's SNES Hagane in 13:12.84
EZGames69
He/They
Publisher, Reviewer, Expert player (4460)
Joined: 5/29/2017
Posts: 2761
What’s this? A submission from Sniq that ISN’T Super Metroid? In all seriousness this is a fun movie to watch. There’s almost never any low point in here. Movement keeps getting crazier and crazier, especially when the wall zips start happening. EZ yes vote from me.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Warepire
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2178
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
Link to current publication: http://tasvideos.org/1357M.html
nymx
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2234)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 932
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
I've known about this TAS for about a year and have been excited to see it finally finished. One thing you can count on...sniq doesn't leave any frames to be found! Yes vote.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Former player
Joined: 7/14/2006
Posts: 51
Location: Mexico
Fantastic work on this TAS. Yes Vote.
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Great work, Sniq! Yes vote.
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
I've never seen a ninja abhor running this much. What a waste of being bipedal.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Challenger
He/Him
Skilled player (1689)
Joined: 2/23/2016
Posts: 1061
First time seeing this game. I enjoyed watching this. Great work Sniq! Yes vote.
My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.
Player (37)
Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282
Great work by sniq! This has been a year or more in the making, and I'm glad it's all wrapped up. There were many new tricks and mechanics discovered over the course of making it, which I think led to a very entertaining improvement. I'm sure sniq will cover this in the submission notes, but there are a couple instances throughout the run where the RNG is good, but maybe not the best possible. This occurs in several places that require a sequence of several RNG calls to resolve to appropriate values. Sniq landed on the best sequences he could find without exhaustive testing, but there may exist better sequences in the game's (relatively short) RNG cycle. To test for that would require a custom script for enumerating through the RNG, which is not too difficult but just doesn't exist yet. So that's the most likely place to find further improvements of a small handful of frames. Main instances include: -Boss 3's movement patterns -Stage 5-5's flame cycle timer & Boss 5
Memory
She/Her
Site Admin, Skilled player (1556)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1765
Location: Dumpster
Nice work!
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
mklip2001
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 2227
Location: Georgia, USA
I really liked the previous run by Heisanevilgenius and Tiger-, so I had high hopes for this run. I think this run is less entertaining in the autoscrollers, but the new boss strategies with the full screen magic/scroll attack is impressive, and the play looks tight. I'm definitely curious to see an updated submission text with more details about how this all works.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
dan
He/Him
Joined: 9/23/2016
Posts: 25
Yes vote from me. I don't know much about the game, but I liked how both the movement and the attacks kept changing.
Skilled player (1340)
Joined: 6/27/2014
Posts: 87
Location: Finland
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15576
Location: 127.0.0.1
This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [3763] SNES Hagane by Sniq in 13:12.84