Posted: 6/26/2018 6:08 PM
Post subject: Objective humans?
Quote
Nach
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Do you think human beings are ever entirely objective for any kind of poll?
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 6/26/2018 6:17 PM
Quote
DrD2k9
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2221)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1091
Location: US
Arcade TAS of 2023 Exotic platforms TASer of 2020 First edition TAS of 2020 Gameboy TAS of 2020 Exotic platforms TASer of 2019 Computer TASer of 2017
No. I don't think (as a group) humans are ever entirely objective on anything....polls included. Certain individuals may have mastered the discipline of being more objective and less emotionally driven than others most of the time, but I don't believe anyone always takes the perfectly objective perspective on all issues. I sure don't....and frankly, I'm thankful for some of the emotional decisions I've made in life that have led to what I believe have been much better outcomes than would have resulted if I had instead taken a strictly objective approach to the situation.
Posted: 6/26/2018 6:19 PM
Quote
scrimpeh
Editor, Skilled player (1441)
Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 2113
TAS of 2017 First edition TAS of 2017 PSX TAS of 2017
This thread is stupid.
Posted: 6/26/2018 6:21 PM
Quote
DrD2k9
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2221)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1091
Location: US
Arcade TAS of 2023 Exotic platforms TASer of 2020 First edition TAS of 2020 Gameboy TAS of 2020 Exotic platforms TASer of 2019 Computer TASer of 2017
scrimpeh wrote:
This thread is stupid.
That's not a very objective assessment of the thread. Sorry, couldn't resist.
Posted: 6/26/2018 6:31 PM
Quote
Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
TAS of 2007 N64 TAS of 2007
Superb strategic thread at a critical juncture, Nach vote.
Posted: 6/26/2018 7:24 PM
Quote
r57shell
Player (98)
Joined: 12/12/2013
Posts: 380
Location: Russia
I don't understand how I supposed to vote. Is it question about should poll about question in first post of topic should exist, or what?
Posted: 6/26/2018 7:25 PM
Quote
feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1255)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
r57shell wrote:
I don't understand how I supposed to vote. Is it question about should poll about question in first post of topic should exist, or what?
Nope.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 6/26/2018 8:12 PM
Quote
Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
I think a better poll question would be: "Do you ever participate in polls?"
Posted: 6/26/2018 8:22 PM
Quote
Nach
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
From Masterjun:
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 6/26/2018 9:00 PM
Quote
Grincevent
Active player (309)
Joined: 8/21/2012
Posts: 429
Location: France
Nach wrote:
From Masterjun:
There's a problem only for people who always vote NO to polls. They can't vote here... That group aside, the only good answer is NO. Ah, and people can lie too if they want ^^.
Posted: 6/27/2018 6:05 AM
Quote
Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
That question doesn't really create a paradox because as Grincevent points out, "no" is a perfectly valid answer. Just because you are answering "no" to this poll doesn't necessarily mean that you always answer "no" to all polls. A more paradoxical question would be, for example: Is your answer to this question "no"?
Posted: 6/27/2018 12:42 PM
Quote
HappyLee
Expert player (2574)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 831
NES TASer of 2012
I believe some human beings are capable of taking polls entirely (or almost) objectively. Others can be subjective to some extent, and that should be OK as long as it doesn't violate the rules and guidelines.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Posted: 6/27/2018 1:05 PM
Quote
TheCoreyBurton
He/Him
Joined: 10/14/2013
Posts: 335
Location: Australia
It would depend on the question posed, but as polls are usually subjective in nature, my guess is no. As soon as you ask someone "which of these options do you prefer?", they're forced to think at least somewhat subjectively, even if they base their decision on some sort of clearly-defined personal rule-set. The obvious exception here is if there's a universal rule-set that all the voters must abide by, but then why have a poll at all? The answer's already technically there. For a poll to be truly objective, the question becomes less of "will people be entirely objective?", instead posing the question "will people answer this honestly?". So in any case, probably not.
I'm not as active as I once was, but I can be reached here if I should be needed.
Posted: 6/27/2018 1:11 PM
Post subject: Re: Objective humans?
Quote
r57shell
Player (98)
Joined: 12/12/2013
Posts: 380
Location: Russia
Nach wrote:
Do you think human beings are ever entirely objective for any kind of poll?
Yes. It's me. - Joke. No. I said No. Point.
Posted: 6/27/2018 4:43 PM
Quote
Aran_Jaeger
He/Him
Banned User
Joined: 10/29/2014
Posts: 176
Location: Bavaria, Germany
[quote Nach] Do you think human beings are ever entirely objective for any kind of poll? [/quote] Obviously there exist situations (mainly regarding the design or type of a poll) in which humans can give objective (and as such independent of personal views) answers, for example when you ask them ''Is 1+1=2 true (in ZFC)?'', they can conclude an objective answer to this which will be correct or wrong with respect to the logical system underlying the poll independently of personal views or subjectivity. So since you were asking about ''any kind of poll'', which means (provided I interpreted/understood the question correctly) the above type of cases would be included, your question could be reduced to e.g. if such type of poll was ever made and answered according to a logical system (that leaves no freedom of opinion or choice about its own matter anymore), and I am rather certain that such happened (or I would assign a high probability to this having happened by now, which maybe also might depend on what one would define or declare being a poll and at what point it isn't a poll anymore). So chances are extremely likely that the correct answer to your question is ''yes''.
collect, analyse, categorise. "Mathematics - When tool-assisted skills are just not enough" ;) Don't want to be taking up so much space adding to posts, but might be worth mentioning and letting others know for what games 1) already some TAS work has been done (ordered in decreasing amount, relative to a game completion) by me and 2) I am (in decreasing order) planning/considering to TAS them. Those would majorly be SNES games (if not, it will be indicated in the list) I'm focusing on. 1) Spanky's Quest; On the Ball/Cameltry; Musya; Super R-Type; Plok; Sutte Hakkun; The Wizard of Oz; Battletoads Doubledragon; Super Ghouls'n Ghosts; Firepower 2000; Brain Lord; Warios Woods; Super Turrican; The Humans. 2) Secret Command (SEGA); Star Force (NES); Hyperzone; Aladdin; R-Type 3; Power Blade 2 (NES); Super Turrican 2; First Samurai. (last updated: 18.03.2018)
Posted: 6/27/2018 6:15 PM
Quote
TehBerral
Active player (264)
Joined: 8/14/2014
Posts: 188
Location: North Kilttown
Link to video
Somewhat damaged.
Posted: 6/28/2018 6:18 PM
Quote
r57shell
Player (98)
Joined: 12/12/2013
Posts: 380
Location: Russia
How could someone objectively answer on following question: Would you like tea or coffee?
Posted: 6/28/2018 7:18 PM
Quote
Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
r57shell wrote:
How could someone objectively answer on following question: Would you like tea or coffee?
At least the mathematician's answer is "yes".
Posted: 6/29/2018 1:13 AM
Quote
Aran_Jaeger
He/Him
Banned User
Joined: 10/29/2014
Posts: 176
Location: Bavaria, Germany
r57shell, I'm not claiming for any given question that corresponds to a poll, that one can answer it with respect to some objective truth or logic that underlies or comes together with the question. I'm just saying that there can be special cases in which this is the case.
collect, analyse, categorise. "Mathematics - When tool-assisted skills are just not enough" ;) Don't want to be taking up so much space adding to posts, but might be worth mentioning and letting others know for what games 1) already some TAS work has been done (ordered in decreasing amount, relative to a game completion) by me and 2) I am (in decreasing order) planning/considering to TAS them. Those would majorly be SNES games (if not, it will be indicated in the list) I'm focusing on. 1) Spanky's Quest; On the Ball/Cameltry; Musya; Super R-Type; Plok; Sutte Hakkun; The Wizard of Oz; Battletoads Doubledragon; Super Ghouls'n Ghosts; Firepower 2000; Brain Lord; Warios Woods; Super Turrican; The Humans. 2) Secret Command (SEGA); Star Force (NES); Hyperzone; Aladdin; R-Type 3; Power Blade 2 (NES); Super Turrican 2; First Samurai. (last updated: 18.03.2018)
Posted: 6/29/2018 12:41 PM
Quote
r57shell
Player (98)
Joined: 12/12/2013
Posts: 380
Location: Russia
I know this kind of poll: Vote yes here: Yes. No.