Joined: 1/15/2015
Posts: 79
Location: United Kingdom
I've been a long time follower of TASVideos, and have always wanted to see a speedrun of Tintin in Tibet, a game I had as a child, but could never beat. So why not try to make it myself?
Here's what I've done so far:
Link to video
While I may be new to TASing, I am aware of some of the ideas behind making a good TAS, so, in making this video, I have tried out multiple ideas to see which is fastest, managed to find the speed in the RAM, so could make sure I was maximizing that when possibly (it turns out if you release Y for a frame just before you start moving, your top speed increases), and I have gone frame by frame to find the earliest you can skip cutscenes.
Searching on the site, I see that no post about this game has been made on the SNES forum, but there has been a run posted, which didn't have much effort put in it and was not published. One thing that stood out though, is that people were saying there that this was a bad game choice. However, a run of the GBC version has since been published, and also Vault exists now, so should I keep going with this, or is it still a poor game choice?
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Hi, JorWat25!
I think this is a very good game to learn tasing. I also think that any game choice is good as long as you enjoy tasing it. The run looks good so far. I didn't spot any obvious mistakes. The animation is quite slow, so I assume throwing the box a couple of times is slower than just carrying it?
Joined: 1/15/2015
Posts: 79
Location: United Kingdom
Aqfaq wrote:
I assume throwing the box a couple of times is slower than just carrying it?
I specifically tested that. Yes, it's much quicker to just walk with the box rather than throw and run.
I should note that you hold Y to run, and also to throw things, so that's why I'm not running there.
Anyway, thanks for the encouragement. I'll keep going, and see how far I get before giving up out of boredom!
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
How's it going, JorWat25? Welcome to the community :) I'm really liking how many newcomers have been joining up, over the past couple of weeks.
As Aqfaq stated, just about any game is good to TAS, if you enjoy it and put in the effort to optimize it (that's what drew me here, as well). I also didn't see any obvious improvements. The game's pace admittedly is on the slower side, but it's looking good so far.
Hope to see a full run on the Workbench!
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
Hi JorWat254, overall it looks good so far, except maybe the box you used to cross the bridge because it looks like you could have throw it sooner (but I may be wrong).
I tried to TAS this game a loooooooooong time ago, and from what I remember if you end a level without any extra HP left, the game will give you one before you start the next level.
And this is where the game starts to be hard to planned, because you can take damage to save time pretty much everywhere, but you obviously can't take every possible time saving damage (note that a 1-up bonus gives you all your HP back).
For example for the first 2 levels combined, you can take either 4 hits (3 hits on level 1 and 1 hit on level 2) or 3 hits (2 hits or less on level 1), so you should ideally test how many frames you can save for each of these potential damage, and then decide your final route. Yeah, it's not really funny to plan this game.
Joined: 1/15/2015
Posts: 79
Location: United Kingdom
Hi lapogne364 (I wasn't born on the 254th of the month...), I'm at work at the moment, so I can't check, but I imagine throwing the box earlier would save time.
As for the time-saving damage...
I suppose I was deliberately ignoring it, as it makes things a lot more complicated. If you're right about getting life back (this is one of the problems of choosing an obscure game, you've got to find out this stuff for yourself), it makes sense to take at least one hit per level, but as for what to do with the extra life you start with, I'd need to compare the time saving possible.
I finally get why a TAS takes so long to make...
Joined: 1/15/2015
Posts: 79
Location: United Kingdom
More than a year later, I have restarted this, and I'm a lot more determined to do it properly this time. Hopefully...
I have decided to make a clean run through of every level (i.e. taking no damage, and getting no health back), then going back and trying to damage boost through everything one at a time to work out the time savings, and try getting every bit of extra health to work out the time losses, and from that, work out the optimal damage strategy.
I've done the first two levels, and worked out the time saves for everywhere, but I think I'll need to finish the next level before I can actually start creating the final version.
Link to video
(I'm aware that I can get past the first cleaner in level 2 quicker. However, she keeps moving off-screen, so you end up having to wait for her to get back to the right on your way back, i.e. it saves no time in the long run. And no, you can't jump over her. She seems to have a very high hit box.)
One thing I'd like to ask someone more knowledgeable about this sort of thing is which ROM I should be using. As this game only came out in Europe, there is no American ROM. I'm currently using 'Tintin in Tibet (Europe) (En,Fr,De,Nl)'. Is this the best one to use?
Also, is it worth changing the language to English? I think it will only cost a frame, but as every text box will only last a frame, it's barely going to be noticeable.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
JorWat25 wrote:
One thing I'd like to ask someone more knowledgeable about this sort of thing is which ROM I should be using. As this game only came out in Europe, there is no American ROM. I'm currently using 'Tintin in Tibet (Europe) (En,Fr,De,Nl)'. Is this the best one to use?
Compare it to GoodSNES and see if it's a perfect [!] dump.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Joined: 1/15/2015
Posts: 79
Location: United Kingdom
Samsara wrote:
Compare it to GoodSNES and see if it's a perfect [!] dump.
After eventually getting it to work (I have no experience with command line stuff) it seems the one I'm using is 'Tintin in Tibet (E) (M4) [b1]', while a different one I found elsewhere was 'Tintin in Tibet (E) (M4) [b1][f1]'
Apparently there is a perfect dump (called 'Tintin in Tibet (E) (M4) [!]'), but I can't seem to find it.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
Oh, yeah, definitely stay away from anything tagged with (b) or [b1]. A bad dump might explain the issue you were having with the game as well. We're likely to reject runs if they use bad dumps, so see what you can do about, er, legally dumping the [!] ROM.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
t's illegal to do talk about rom locations, it's a site rule
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto.
TAS i'm interested:
Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS?
i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
i`m just explaining why samsara won`t give him the location for a decent dump
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto.
TAS i'm interested:
Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS?
i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Joined: 1/15/2015
Posts: 79
Location: United Kingdom
grassini wrote:
t's illegal to do talk about rom locations, it's a site rule
I'm aware of the rules. That's why I assumed Samsara wouldn't tell me how to find it, as that would break the rules.
But anyway, I have it now, and no-one here told me how to get it, so we're all fine.
EDIT: Now I have the correct ROM, is there any way to change the movie file I have so that it doesn't say "Movie has does not match the ROM"? Do I need to use a hex editor?
You get to edit the movie, which in reality is a zip file. Open it with a decent tool (7-zip) and edit member header. Then edit the fields GameName and SHA1 with the new values.
http://tasvideos.org/Bizhawk/BK2Format.html
If you don't know how to get the SHA1, see here: http://superuser.com/a/898377
Joined: 1/15/2015
Posts: 79
Location: United Kingdom
Samsara wrote:
A bad dump might explain the issue you were having with the game as well.
Turns out that tree behaves exactly the same on the good ROM.
But not to worry!
Link to video
It seems that if you do that final jump a specific frame (literally one frame earlier or later, and it won't work) the slide works properly for the final tree.
I guess it can be caused by a frame rule or by RNG? But, if it only happens at this specific tree, that must be a different type of sprite. Did you figure out how the sprites work?
Joined: 1/15/2015
Posts: 79
Location: United Kingdom
I've just realised that the previous submission is actually slower than it looks.
The time listed is 21:15.95, which is the length of time it takes to show 76557 frames at 60 frames a second.
However, as this game only ever came out in Europe, there is no release that runs at 60 FPS, only 50 FPS. Therefore, the time should be 25:31.14.
raboni wrote:
I never imagined that a sub 25 minutes run would even be possible.
Should someone tell him?
EDIT: Just looked through the edit history of that submission. Originally, there was a bit that said:
Movie info
Length: 00:25:31
Frames: 76557
Re-record count: 389
and the line quoted above was "I never imagined that a 25 minutes run would even be possible". So he was aware of how long it really was, but didn't realise that the website had calculated the time using the wrong frame rate.
EDIT 2: I've just had a thought. Is there something I need to do when I submit my file to make sure it shows the correct time?
EDIT 3: (apologies for all the edits...) In my ongoing investigation into the weird tree, I found this video recorded on an actual console which also has the glitch, so I suppose you could say "It's not a[n emulation] bug, it's a feature!"
Joined: 1/15/2015
Posts: 79
Location: United Kingdom
Update:
I have completed the first 6 levels in the damage free 'base version' run:
Link to video
From that, I currently have enough information to know the route for the first three levels. The first two aren't too different (if you really want to know, I'll damage boost through the first two pairs of kids and the first bit of steam, and then boost through the first cleaner), but Level 3 can be done a lot quicker:
Link to video
I should note that the actual route won't damage boost through the bike at the start (I'm going to start the level with 2 life, so damage boosting though both bikes would kill me), but I didn't have a branch recorded that did that
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
The YouTube videos are private.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Crisis averted!
