You might as well throw in DOS in there for the same reason. While it makes sense to unify the PC category, I feel like doing so would the page way too large and throw in very different types of games in the same bucket.
You might be able to set an arbitrary cutoff by date, i.e. DOS and earlier (including DOS-based Windows games) would go into their own page, while more modern games get their own page. Just a thought.
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Fortranm wrote:
The reasons should be self-explanatory so I'll skip this part :D
And I'll skip the part where I ponder them. Let's just operate on a whim.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
I would say the most important reason is that a significant number of games have versions on both systems that are supposedly identical and this makes them overlap a lot. "Modern PC" might be a good term to refer to both of them.
If such change is made, maybe the name of this page should be updated as well: https://tasvideos.org/GameResources/Windows
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Fortranm wrote:
I would say the most important reason is that a significant number of games have versions on both systems that are supposedly identical and this makes them overlap a lot.
But why is it a problem (barring the unimplemented feature of cross-platfrom obsoletion)?
The issue I'm seeing is we can't create the same game entry that would cover several platforms, which may be desired if the versions for different platforms are indeed the same.
But DOS feels like it should belong to the IBM PC section too, because separating PC into modern and retro would be subjective.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
The issue I'm seeing is we can't create the same game entry that would cover several platforms, which may be desired if the versions for different platforms are indeed the same.
If a game only has a published movie on one side and a user wants to find it by platform/system, having both Windows and Linus entries listed on one page would reduce the chances for the person to miss it.
feos wrote:
But DOS feels like it should belong to the IBM PC section too, because separating PC into modern and retro would be subjective.
Including DOS would raise the number of entries on the page to 115 (in contrast to 67 on the DOS-DOOM page and 54 on the proposed Windows-Linux page) as we speak. This is still not an absurdly high number compared to the system pages like NES, SNES, and Genesis so that sounds like a good idea too.
https://tasvideos.org/Movies-DOS-Windows-Linux
Or is it gonna include DOOM at the top (because of alphabetical order) of the page as well?
https://tasvideos.org/Movies-DOS-Windows-Linux-DOOM
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The plan is moving away from giant lists of all movies per platform, to game based navigation. Such a list is hard to comprehend, you have to scroll though a ton of the stuff you don't need. So "too many movies are there for a given platform" is not an argument. If the platform had that many, they should be cataloged under it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
The reasons should be self-explanatory so I'll skip this part :D
Windows games don't run on Linux.
Linux games don't run on Windows.
Windows runs on numerous types of hardware that Linux doesn't run on.
Linux runs on a whole lot of different types of hardware that Windows cannot run on.
...so they're clearly two very different systems, so how about we don't merge the two? You might as well propose to merge the Gamecube and Wii platforms, that makes about as much sense as your proposal.
I would say the most important reason is that a significant number of games have versions on both systems that are supposedly identical and this makes them overlap a lot.
Almost every modern game is released on multiple platforms. For instance, metroidvania game Ori And The Blind Forest runs on a Switch, an XBox, or Windows (incidentally, it deosn't run on Linux). These versions are purportedly identical. But I don't see anybody claiming we should merge the Switch and XBox consoles.
Windows games can run on Linux via Wine or Proton, though. Not sure where you're getting at with that.
Radiant wrote:
Windows runs on numerous types of hardware that Linux doesn't run on.
You can install a Linux distro alongside an existing Windows installation, though. So again, I'm confused here.
Same deal with systems running Linux where Windows can't run on. For all I know, I haven't heard of a system on the x86 or x64 (or heck, even ARM) architecture where Windows cannot be run on, even older versions like Win98 or WinXP.
Windows games can run on Linux via Wine or Proton, though.
And Gameboy games can run on Linux via VisualBoy Advance; that's the same principle. According to WineHQ, roughly one-third of windows applications (including games) don't actually work on Wine, and 20% more have serious issues. It seems that it's actually easier to run Gameboy games on Linux, than to run Windows games on Linux.
Same deal with systems running Linux where Windows can't run on. For all I know,
For instance, you can run Linux on a Nintendo Wii. You cannot run Windows on a Nintendo Wii.
I mean, I've seen the opinion sometimes (mostly with console gamers) that "a computer is a computer and all computers are the same" but this is SUCH an oversimplification...
A better way to handle it altogether would be to group identical releases of a game together when we switch to game based navigation.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Memory wrote:
A better way to handle it altogether would be to group identical releases of a game together when we switch to game based navigation.
This would solve my issues without introducing new problems.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Editing the links on the current main Movies page seems to be a relatively simple change. It could help to do it for the time being if it's deemed reasonable.
Also, I assume the lists per console pages will still be around in some way on the site even after the game based navigation is implemented? Those lists can still be helpful in some cases imo.
IBM PC (MS-DOS / Windows / Linux, including DOOM) - ([Movies-DOS-DOOM-Windows-Linux-Standard|Standard]) ([Movies-DOS-DOOM-Windows-Linux-Stars|Stars]) ([Movies-DOS-DOOM-Windows-Linux-Moons|Moons]) ([Movies-DOS-DOOM-Windows-Linux|All])
Merged the pages of DOS, Windows, and Linux into IBM PC now that it has been coined as a term on the forum.
