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PreviousNewImprovements
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We improved previous TAS by 28 frames.
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV14b4y1Y7Q8 We decided to begin this TAS because of the new wall piercing skills found by 音之王. Using this technique, we achieved a 12 frame improvement in stage 5. Of course, we have carefully studied the previous TAS, and got some new improvements.

Stage 2:

At frame 5745, the previous TAS go through the wall at a higher place and fall directly on the platform. We chose to go straight through the wall and press the opposite direction 1 frame in the air. It saved 1 frame.
At frame 5918, we let the character climb up 2 pixels and then jump. This allows the character to reach the abscissa of 127 before landing. It saved 2 frame.
At frame 7228, because the previous improvement value is odd, there is 1 frame deviation of the injury time of the character here. It saved 3 frame.
BOSS fighting: Saved 2 frame.

Stage 5:

At frame 18599, we used the character's instant invincibility to pass through the bullet, this causes the character to eject to the right after injury. It saved 1 frame.
At frame 19568, We let the character enter the falling process and then release invincible skills. It saved 1 frame.
At frame 21356: Use the new wall piercing technique to get a 12 frame increase.

Stage7:

At frame 28603, After injury can enter the next scene 1 frame in advance.
At frame 29876, because the previous improvement value is odd, there is 1 frame deviation of the injury time of the character here. One pause is reduced here. It saved 3 frame.
Final BOSS: 3 frame quick at the 2nd form. But only 2 frame was kept to the final.

Special thanks: 音之王

Screenshot suggest is 19581F.

Samsara: Judging!
Samsara: Setting to Delayed, pending a possible improvement file or new submission.
Samsara: It's been three months. This has waited long enough. If the improvement ever gets finished, it'll have to be a new submission. Accepting this as an improvement to the published run in the meantime.
Zinfidel: Processing...

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Posted: 10/29/2021 11:40 AM
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TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #7238: J.Y & aiqiyou's NES Ninja Gaiden II: The Dark Sword of Chaos in 09:11.71
Posted: 10/29/2021 11:54 AM
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aiqiyou
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Screenshot suggest is 19581F.
Posted: 10/29/2021 11:54 AM
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ThunderAxe31
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Cool! I want to know more about this submission. How did you improve the previous TAS? Edit: oh I see you will add more details later, thank you!
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Posted: 10/29/2021 12:41 PM
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aiqiyou
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Cool! I want to know more about this submission. How did you improve the previous TAS? Edit: oh I see you will add more details later, thank you!
I updated the submission. Maybe J.Y will add some more details, but it should wait until tomorrow.
Posted: 10/29/2021 4:10 PM
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Challenger
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This new trick is great. Excellent work guys! Yes vote.
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Posted: 10/30/2021 4:03 PM
(Edited: 10/31/2021 11:12 AM)
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J.Y
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Hahaha...Good job!
Posted: 10/30/2021 9:59 PM
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Scumtron
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Nice catch waiting to use IFW until after jumping at the pit in 5-1; I wasted a lot of time trying to work out some elaborate bird boost there instead. And, of course, nice job on all the other speed improvements too. However, very little attention seems have been paid to style. User movie #75206084705959364
Posted: 10/31/2021 12:09 PM
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feos
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Scumtron wrote:
User movie #75206084705959364
Link to video
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 10/31/2021 1:52 PM
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Challenger
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Wow Scumtron also found that new trick!
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Posted: 10/31/2021 2:02 PM
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aiqiyou
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So, according to convention, this submission will be rejected?
Posted: 10/31/2021 2:09 PM
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Samsara
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Not necessarily. I'd only reject here if Scumtron actually submitted his run. In this case, I would much rather delay the submission and wait for a final, fully optimized file. Perhaps the two of you and Scumtron could work together on it?
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Posted: 10/31/2021 2:56 PM
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aiqiyou
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OK, so everything else will be decided by scumtron now.
Posted: 11/1/2021 1:39 AM
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Scumtron
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Well, I hope J.Y & aiqiyou (or anybody) will try to reconcile any speed differences we have left. I made a brief effort to work their 5-1 inv. fireeheel change into mine, but it seems my 1 frame improvement in the next room (spike boost) gets wiped by the even/odd rule. Maybe I'm wrong. I've only done a frame comparison on segments between screen transitions, so there could still be speed diffs beside 5-1b and 7-4. If it turns out that no other speed improvements can be worked in, and if J.Y and aiqiyou don't object, I could just fix the 7-4 fight in my file and call it done. (and do a long-procrastinated write-up)
Posted: 11/1/2021 5:07 AM
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aiqiyou
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Scumtron wrote:
Well, I hope J.Y & aiqiyou (or anybody) will try to reconcile any speed differences we have left. I made a brief effort to work their 5-1 inv. fireeheel change into mine, but it seems my 1 frame improvement in the next room (spike boost) gets wiped by the even/odd rule. Maybe I'm wrong. I've only done a frame comparison on segments between screen transitions, so there could still be speed diffs beside 5-1b and 7-4. If it turns out that no other speed improvements can be worked in, and if J.Y and aiqiyou don't object, I could just fix the 7-4 fight in my file and call it done. (and do a long-procrastinated write-up)
I briefly watch your file yesterday. The 1 frame improvement at 7-4 maybe not effective. As we mentioned in the submission, Final BOSS: 3 frame quick at the 2nd form. But only 2 frame was kept to the final. We need to spend time carefully comparing the two videos. It will take about two or three days. At that time, we will reply the results here.
Posted: 11/5/2021 1:21 PM
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aiqiyou
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Scumtron wrote:
I made a brief effort to work their 5-1 inv. fireeheel change into mine, but it seems my 1 frame improvement in the next room (spike boost) gets wiped by the even/odd rule. Maybe I'm wrong.
I want to know where the wiped 1 frame ascension you mentioned comes from. If it is different from the 1 frame promotion we obtained in 5-1b. This may make it possible to make the whole video two frames faster. Besides, we have no other ideas.
Posted: 11/6/2021 7:59 PM
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Scumtron
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So we can be sure we're talking about the same thing, here is where our files differ in frame counts: 
1-2    138    136    -2
2-2b   987    986    -1
2-2c   304    293    -11
2-3    94     92     -2
3-2c   467    466    -1
3-2e   318    317    -1
3-3    121    117    -4
4-1a   1004   996    -8
4-1c   1135   1134   -1
4-2a   773    772    -1
4-2b   457    455    -2
4-2c   1145   1143   -2
4-3    98     96     -2
5-1a   440    440     =
5-1b   752    753    +1
5-1c   419    418    -1
6-3    286    284    -2
7-2a   841    830    -11
7-2c   783    782    -1
7-4    104    105    +1
cs     332    332     =
7-5    290    289    -1
end    33157  33105  -52
We both happily found the same solution in 5-1a. In 5-1b you saved a frame by delaying the use of the Invincible Fire Wheel. In 5-1c I saved a frame with a position adjustment and better boost from the spikes over the wall. But, the 5-1c frame save only works on an 'odd' frame counter alignment, so adding your 5-1b improvement would negate it. So, we can't have both. Which do we use? (I favor mine, since the extra killing is part of ending the game with an arbitrary score)
Posted: 11/7/2021 6:02 AM
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aiqiyou
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Scumtron wrote:
We both happily found the same solution in 5-1a. In 5-1b you saved a frame by delaying the use of the Invincible Fire Wheel. In 5-1c I saved a frame with a position adjustment and better boost from the spikes over the wall. But, the 5-1c frame save only works on an 'odd' frame counter alignment, so adding your 5-1b improvement would negate it. So, we can't have both. Which do we use? (I favor mine, since the extra killing is part of ending the game with an arbitrary score)
Yes, we can only choose one of the two. No matter which one we choose, the final time is the same. Even if both can be retained, 1 frame will still gets wiped in the boss battle of this stage. So, just keep it as your file now is fine.
Posted: 11/7/2021 6:07 AM
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aiqiyou
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By the way, if use the improvement at 5-1b, we can get a odd screenshot a enemy through the wall. Such as the 19581 frame of my submission.
Posted: 12/22/2021 4:56 PM
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Samsara
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Any updates on the improvement file? No rush if it isn't done, just wanted to make sure I didn't miss some sort of resolution.
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Posted: 2/1/2022 5:45 PM
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Bigbass
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Did this verification back in late October, but I've made sure the file I used is the same as what's in the now-accepted submission: Link to video
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Posted: 2/1/2022 8:13 PM
Post subject: Movie published
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TASVideoAgent
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [4581] NES Ninja Gaiden II: The Dark Sword of Chaos by J.Y & aiqiyou in 09:11.71