1 2
5 6 7
Post subject: movie tag? Er, make that userfile tag. Embarrassing.
Editor, Skilled player (1199)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
Added Stage 1 boss antics. Not a lot I can do if the goal is avoiding camera movements, but here it is. As much trial and error it was to reduce lag with the script, imagine figuring things out lag minus the script. Next is Stage 4. I don't know if it's possible to maintain the 8 frames with different item drops there. I somehow got enough drops to avoid pauses, and even one Ammo Tank used will eat all the savings.
Post subject: Need help for Stage 4 resync (again)
Editor, Reviewer, Skilled player (1354)
Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1646
Location: Italy
Yes, I'm having some difficulties with keeping a loseless route. I've saved a lag frame, though. Here is my current .tasproj file: https://filebin.net/5zd8355fb93jxn7z/ZM_s1_BossEntertainTry_5.tasproj (note that is done on BizHawk 1.12.2) Someone please help. I swear this is the last time we resync the run. By the way, well done with Boss 1 entertainment.
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
Editor, Skilled player (1199)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
30244 .....2.5...52....2X..5....5....2  9 ammo
30319 .....2.5...52....2...5....5.X..2  8 ammo
30378 .....2.5...52....2...5..X.5....2  6 ammo
30419 .X...2.5...52....2...5....5....2  6 ammo
30439 .....2.5...52....2...X....5....2 11 ammo (from 6)
30480 .....2.5...52....2...5....5...X2 11 ammo
30582 ....X2.5...52....2...5....5....2  9 ammo
30702 .....2.5...52....2...5....5.X..2  7 ammo
30941 .....2.5...X2....2...5....5....2  9 ammo (from 4)
31154 X....2.5...52....2...5....5....2  5 ammo
31281 .....2.5...52....2...5....5....X  5 ammo (from 3)
31593 .....2.5...52....2...5.X..5....2 -1 ammo (not possible)
Our luck manipulation field. The frames we make our kills, where we are in our item cycle when the kill is made, and our resulting ammo after the kill. We need at least 4 ammo on our way out of 31593 kill. Note I had to cheat to get the last entry, as we're bone dry on ammo by then, and couldn't make one more flame charge. We can't charge on 1 ammo, but if we could, we would have -1 after the fact. I'm not optimistic. We can't store more than 11 ammo, so we really need to manipulate stuff after 30480. It does not look feasible to make lossless changes in kill timings for a lot of these in our route (heavy, heavy use of Flame Charge just to go places). If we do hard delays, losing parts of our 8 frames to do so, keep in mind it also delays all later kills. We can theoretically delay 1 frame, then 2 more, on the 30582 and 30702 kills, but then we lose the +5 at 30941. I'm not sure of any re-routes we can do to get through this segment. The path we're on is pretty rigid. We can intentionally lose 7 frames on the 31154 kill, then one more frame on the next kill, to match what we've got previously. This, however, would be basically admitting we can't preserve the 8 frames, losing them all to bad RNG, and only walking away with a single lag frame saved. Incidentally, here's our previous RNG route:
30252 .....2.5...52....2...5....X....2 11 ammo (from 9)
30327 .....X.5...52....2...5....5.X..2 11 ammo (from10)
30386 X....2.5...52....2...5....5....2  9 ammo
30427 .....2.5.X.52....2...5....5....2  9 ammo
30447 .....2.5...52....2...5....5..X.2  9 ammo
30480 .....X.5...52....2...5....5....2 11 ammo (from 9)
30558 .....2.5...5X....2...5....5....2 10 ammo (from 8)
30710 ....X2.5...52....2...5....5....2  8 ammo
30937 .....2.X...52....2...5....5....2 10 ammo (from 5) +Lag
31163 .....2.5X..52....2...5....5....2  6 ammo
31290 .....2.X...52....2...5....5....2  9 ammo (from 4)
31602 .....2.5...52....2...5....5....X  5 ammo (from 3)
Editor, Reviewer, Skilled player (1354)
Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1646
Location: Italy
If we could reach 1 frame faster the enemy at 31501, it would give us a Medium Ammo Refill. But saving 1 frame before 30823 would be useless because of animation frame rule of the exploding enemy. Actually, is possible to save an arbitrary amoun of frames without encountering such a problem. The other solution would be to come with a major route change... But it's pretty unlikely. By the way, even if we would lose 1 dialog frame rule, we would still keep the 4 lag frames save got in the precedent stages, so it would not be so bad. Still, we should first make absolutely sure to not being able to keep the dialog frame rule for Stage 4.
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
Editor, Skilled player (1199)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
I prepared a file where we lose the 8 frames, in a rather obvious delay, in case we can't re-route without losses. The sync was easy enough. Still, generally the point is to move the saved frames as far forward into the movie we can. At least they are closer to the end spot than lost unclaimed in the middle, so later improvements won't have to look as hard. If any were ever to show up, anyway. I don't have any ideas on how to keep the one frame rule. If you're ready to move on, there's the file.
Post subject: Never give up.
Editor, Reviewer, Skilled player (1354)
Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1646
Location: Italy
https://filebin.net/75zyugi7vtuelikv/ZM_s1_BossEntertainTry_12.tasproj I managed to save 5 frames, while getting 1 lag frame. I also managed to avoid that lag frame by saving only 1 frame, which is probably not enough. Either way, the frame rule is saved. Edit: I encountered another lag frame at 32599: https://filebin.net/r97xv69vz44zspi1/ZM_s4_WeSucceedGuys_5.tasproj Edit 2: FatRatKnight saved 2 lag frames in miniboss battle. Now we gotta resync the rest of the stage... Edit 3: We need to find a way to save the lag frame at 32595 without wasting other frames. Any help is much appreciated. Edit 4: Stage 4 resynced. The "bad" new is that now we're 2 frames away from a new improvement. I've added 2 delay frames at 32923, in order to make it simpler to fight a desync caused by Zook's hurting invicibility frame rule. If only we would to find a way to not need this 2-frames delay, the new 8-frames dialog rule improvement would be ours.
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
Post subject: CamX, ScrX... I'm confusing myself, too.
Editor, Skilled player (1199)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
We removed those 2 delay frames. But apparently there was a miscount of frames? Or was there a delay frame I missed? I noted we're at 7/8 delay at the door. Took a different route just before door to save the remaining regular frames, of which we needed only 1 of the 4 we got from the route, but it hits us with 3 lag frames. So, aside from retrying boss, what else can we do at this point? EDIT: No need for save platform now. Had a moment of inspiration when thinking about the door. There's a lot of constraints when it comes to touching the door optimally. Our dash hitbox is pretty wide, and if we're anywhere further right relative to camera than X 80, the scrolling has to get by an extra pixel, which is enough to delay the door animation, and that is on a 4-frame rule. So being on ScrX81 means the door takes 4 more frames than being at ScrX80. Of course, being at ScrX80 isn't enough. We're dashing 3 pixels at a time. On the frame we touch the door, we can be 1, 2, or 3 pixels inside the door hitbox. Anything less than 3, and that means the screen takes an extra frame in exactly the same fashion as a sub-optimal camera position of 81, and that one frame translates to four, as above. In addition, touching the door also hits this same frame rule. As it turns out, our non-platform route was just barely early enough in touching the door on the good side of the animation frame rule. Unfortunately, we were a pixel short. We were inside the door by 2 pixels, not three. The usual plan of walking a frame or two to fix our pixel alignment fails here, due to the fact we lose an animation frame rule on touching the door. So, we lose a frame rule because we are one pixel short, or we lose a frame rule because we are one frame late. There was one detail that annoyed me. Running my scripts, I saw that, when scaling the wall under the save platform, we actually had one pixel gap in our ascent. Since we're one frame short of meeting the dialog rule, and fixing the door rule would give us four frames, I would see if sacrificing frames here to align ourselves work. Yes, it gives us a pixel, but at an unforgivable cost! We're far enough left that the camera stopped following us, and we're now in an odd X position. Motion in the air moves us in steps of two pixels, and therefore we can't stop at ScrX80. So I ended up dashing to the door on ScrX81, eliminating any possible savings. The door frame rule is a vicious one. It may be every 4th frame it lets us through, but... it's not global. The reason why I've been making delays when the door is out of sight is because the frame rule is based on when it spawns. We ascend by wall jumps at 6 pixels per frame. Is it possible, perhaps, that we just hit a bad Y position? Yes. We had hit a bad Y position. I delayed the final wall jump up by two frames. Yes, we scale the wall slower, but this incremental change let me move to the right a frame later, but spawned the door two frames later. This key difference meant that, while I still have that bad pixel position as before, in addition to losing a frame, the door's schedule is delayed two frames, and that means I have the frame I can use to fix it and reach the door just in time. A sacrifice of two frames for want of a single pixel, for want of an animation frame rule, for want of a dialog frame rule. Door animation frame rules are important.
Editor, Reviewer, Skilled player (1354)
Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1646
Location: Italy
Stage 6 Resynced, Stage Select in 56529. Shoutouts to FatRatKnight for helping with boss particles. By the way, I'm currently looking a way to put in use the ability to generate Meteors by using Shot Counter Glitch on Spikeball. I'm not sure if it's possible to tame this weird thing to our advantage, but still, that could save up to 5 frames in Stage 6 miniboss and thus save an animation frame rule, or even 2 if we get another frame elsewhere in the stage (I remember I've left a frame delay in some old WIP movie). The problem is that I've yet to understand what does cause it. I've just noticed that has nothing to do with the sparkles from Spikeball bouncing around: the Meteors just appear all of a sudden at seemingly arbitrary moments, and with a seemingly arbitrary X coordinate. The only lead I have so far, is that if I set the object pointer (0x70) to zero the Meteors won't appear, while all other object data won't matter. If you're interested, you can look at some examples of these Spikeball-Meteors from there: https://filebin.net/mkjfo1dczv0jmisl/ZM_spikemeteor_test2.tasproj In the last two branches you can clearly see that different Meteors spawned, at different moments. We just need to know how to control that. Edit: Currently researching about it... Edit 2: No, it wouldn't allow to save any frame. Link to video Edit 3: Stage 9 in 64932. The total amount of saved frames is 24, of which 16 in dialog rules and 8 in lag frames. This is a milestone in the making of this TAS. We did bring the optimization to insane levels, and now we're getting to the very last phase. Remember that when Boss Skip is used, the amount of frames saved is bound to the 4 frames of Animation Rule, instead of the 8 of Dialog Rule. So optimizing the routes gets even more important. Edit 4: Oh and before I forget, needs entertaining improvements with Stage 2 boss fight. Must avoid getting hit and show off glitched weapon shots, since Shot Counter Glitch is enabled. Edit 5: Stage 11 in 68608. Stages 10 and onwards are those which still need to be triple-check for possible improvements. We now need help the most. Oh, and I also did some cleanup removing the WIP files of the current improvement, since it's all contained in the latest one.
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
Editor, Skilled player (1199)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
I've said it before, but without refilling certain weapons, we're rather limited on ammo on some of them. Only use them if you find you can refill them more conveniently than other weapons. Tentative use of them is fine, since we can just go back and use different weapons without losing sync. Flame - Used, refilled, and used constantly. Hard to say whether we can use it for bosses, though I'd like to say we can. Whirlwind - I don't recall much stage use. Mostly useful just for bosses. Dirt - So fancy, getting lag-free hits with the meteors. Needed a shot in s11, though. Bubble - I recall using 3 barriers. I also recall using a normal shot in a stage portion. That leaves 1 ammo. Missile - I don't recall much stage use. Mostly useful just for bosses. Star - We spend 8 ammo on skips alone, leaving only 3 ammo for other things. Spikeball - We've commonly used this thing on bosses before, so their use on bosses is obvious. One shot is used on a skip, but it isn't certain if we can just use another weapon. Laser - Lock break is a must for skips, and to mildly speed up non-skip intros. Ammo is difficult to acquire. Fixed the s8 entertainment. Restoring a less entertaining action, we no longer lose a frame to a mysterious transition lag following s7. I still blame the Program Counter being in some kind of bad spot. s2 boss doesn't look easy to work through, though.
Editor, Skilled player (1334)
Joined: 1/31/2010
Posts: 330
Location: France
I modified stage 9 boss because using both the meteors and the charged spikeball is a waste of ammo. Assuming I didn't miss any ammo limitation, here is a possible ammo usage for the other 2 bosses : Boss n°2 : Charged Missile (49/10) Charged Star (43/9) Charged Missile (39/8) Meteors (29/7) (19/6) Whirlwind (15/5) (11/4) Whirlwind (7/3) (3/2) Charged buster (1/1) Charged buster (0/0) Boss n°3 : Charged Spikeball (47/10) (39/9) Charged Spikeball (31/8) (23/7) Whirlwind (19/6) (15/5) Whirlwind (11/4) (7/3) Charged buster (5/2) Charged buster (3/1) Flame/Star (0/0) After this there should be 1 uncharged Dirt for s11, 10 Bubble for the skips/damage and 1 unused uncharged Spikeball (now that I think about it, we can use it at the end of s9 boss instead of the charged Flame), though some attacks can be replaced by a Flame or Laser if needed.
Editor, Reviewer, Skilled player (1354)
Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1646
Location: Italy
8 frames saved in Stage 10. I didn't implement the entertaining improvements by FatRatKnight yet. I think we should make the movie for the latest version of BizHawk, though I can't use it most of time because my main machine runs XP. Can someone check for the existence of desyncs in the latest release? By the way, it would be cool if the run could sync on any versions. About the ammo management, I didn't implement the modify by lapogne36 as well. I think it's early for going extreme with ammo management on bosses, since we should use all the spare weaponry to improve entertain as most as possible. Still, thanks for the contribute, it may come useful later. Since we're here, let's take a look at the weapons ammo values in boss battles. In the following list, all attacks are listed from the least expensive to the worst one: charged Basic damage: 2 ammo usage: 0 ratio: 2 / 0 = ∞ comment: shots are free, but damage is very low and thus can't be used for the first hit. Bubble shots damage: 3 * 2 = 6 ammo usage: 1 ratio: 6 / 1 = 6 comment: can't be used for the first hit because single bullet damage is < 5. Charged Dirt Drill (Meteor Shower) damage: 10 * 2 = 20 ammo usage: 4 ratio: 20 / 4 = 5 comment: can't be used at first, and needs to have the boss on the left. Also, some bosses never go on the left. Also note that s9 and s11 boss re-fights are the only situations in which can be used in the run, for entertaining sake. Charged Spikeball (Huge Cicling Spikeballs) damage: 8 * 2 = 16 ammo usage = 4 ratio: 16 / 4 = 4 comments: sometimes is almost impossible to hit twice. Whirlwind shot damage: 4 * 2 = 8 ammo usage: 2 ratio 8 / 2 = 4 comment: be aware of lag. Spikeball shot damage: 4 * 2? = 8? ammo usage: 2 ratio 8? / 2 = 4? comment: should be used last, because of how long it keep you from firing again. also, depending on the boss hitbox and movements, maybe it could hit even more times. Fire shots, Stars shots, charged Stars: 3 ratio charged Fire, charged Laser: 2.5 ratio Dirt Drill shot, Laser shot, Missile shot, charged Missile: 2 ratio Charged Whirlwind: 4 damage / 3 ammo = 1.3 ratio (I wish to use it at least once in the run) Fragile Barrier: 1 damage / 3 ammo = 0.3 ratio (there are no situations to use this aganist bosses)
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
Editor, Skilled player (1199)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Fragile Barrier: 1 damage / 3 ammo = 0.3 ratio (there are no situations to use this aganist bosses)
Challenge accepted. I will find a situation to use this against the Stage 2 boss. ... Well, I am working on trying to make the s2 boss entertaining. I will end up needing a heap of what I call "overflow damage" to make up for the 1 damage. In any case, the worst a mismanaged ammo usage has on us is we spend extra pauses using Ammo Tanks. All this ammo planning is so we save like 8 frames. We just got to make sure not to waste more than that on ammo drops for each pause we avoid. EDIT:
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
About the ammo management, I didn't implement the modify by lapogne36 as well. I think it's early for going extreme with ammo management on bosses, since we should use all the spare weaponry to improve entertain as most as possible. Still, thanks for the contribute, it may come useful later.
The problem here is that we don't have much spare weaponry to start with. Using what you apparently think is "all the spare weaponry" is what I think is "resources we can't spare." Our perceptions here are very different. Knowing ahead of time what weapons we will have available or otherwise means we won't crash into the problem of running down one stage and, oh, no Star ammo for the s14 boss skip. Go back, save a Star and... Oh, no Star ammo for the s15 skip. Go back, and... Oh, no Star ammo for the s16 boss. Why did we use so many Stars in the first place? There is no getting around using up 8 ammo off our Star, purely on skips. Even if we have 9 now, it won't be 9 later. Refilling it is a notable problem when Flame is our go-to stage weapon and Laser is desperate to refill whenever it's feasible. We will not see the end without a pause walking away from the s11 boss on 4 Star ammo, not while these two weapons are gulping down all our drops. There are small amounts of other weapon usage in other stages, though. I seem to recall something about Whirlwind, but I need to check the last movie we have that actually reached the end. Barrier is almost certainly another big one we use, so not many Bubbles left once we're done ignoring damage. All this is why I put an importance in planning our ammo now. Though, what blunts the edge of importance is the fact we can always go back and re-do bosses, so we don't really lose any progress in TASing later stages, but that means we're spending time going back to said bosses on lack of foresight. If you still don't think it's important, then I would advise putting minimum effort on the s9, s11, and s13 bosses (if we can't skip them), just enough to get hits on the earliest moments, just to see what ammo we will need later. We have a prior TAS to refer to for what things we'll likely need already. Keep track of the ammo we use on not-bosses.
Editor, Reviewer, Skilled player (1354)
Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1646
Location: Italy
Stage 11 resynced, except for boss battle. This was such a close case! I managed to meet the dialog frame rule just in time. Also, now we're short on Laser ammo again... Let's hope the best for the next stage... By the way, at the beginning of Stage 11, I encountered a 5 ammo refill, and the only weapon that could benefit was Dirt Drill. So using Meteors aganist the Stage 9 boss is fine in the end.
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
Editor, Skilled player (1199)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
Completed making Stage 2 boss more entertaining. EDIT: This one ends better. I have managed the constraints of "no lag" and "no damage" in the movie. Over IRC, I've concluded that ThunderAxe31 can leave the ammo management against bosses up to others. Getting that laser ammo in the stage while keeping within the dialog rule must not have been easy.
Editor, Reviewer, Skilled player (1354)
Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1646
Location: Italy
Stage 11 resynced, next stage start at 68599. We're now facing a new crysis (don't you say?): we're short on Laser ammo in Stage 12. There isn't much we can do with the stage route, since it's solid despite its simplicity, pretty straight-forward. So I tryied to get more Laser ammo in Stage 11, and I succeed, but charged the Laser for boss door on 1 frame later... Have here a .tasproj if you're willing to give a hand: https://filebin.net/6lksejwpulmv55ko/ZM_s2_BossEntertain_6.bk2.tasproj Edit 2: 3 more ammo for Laser, 5 more ammo for Fire. And no time loss. Edit 3: Stage 13 start at 69701. I've decided to change file naming for boss rush stages, in order to avoid confusion. 20 frames were saved, of which 7 were lagged. I've removed the use of energy tank and skipped the boss by using the Basic Buster only. It looks well optimized to me, but I would still like to have someone check for possible improvements. Next is stage is where I will have to try to come up with an unseen boss skip. Let's hope for the better.
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
Editor, Skilled player (1199)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
Some notes on s13 Boss Skip: * There is a ground enemy we can spawn from the door. * The enemy has 5 HP. * If it stays at the right wall, it keeps existing while boss loads. * Its movement is to bounce left and right rather fast. It won't want to stay. * We can delay the enemy by shooting it. * We have 0-damage projectiles available, including spikeball rebound sprites. * Most projectiles will not continue to exist, such as spikeball rebound sprites, when taken as far off-camera as the enemy when boss loads. We are close, but this is a nasty puzzle where we might just not have any way of actually keeping the enemy there. I don't have a lot of ideas left at this point. The only thing left I can think of is the interaction of this enemy and unloaded terrain. Basically one test to try is to pick a spot to hit the enemy, then cheat its ouch timer to hold it in place, then release it once the boss segment loads and the prior terrain goes away. If there's any favorable movement in unloaded terrain, we'll probably need to make use of that when we stop cheating.
Editor, Reviewer, Skilled player (1354)
Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1646
Location: Italy
On irc you asked to check for the enemy's movement behaviour... Well, if you watch another enemy in the precedent segment, you see that it countinues moving back and forth even over the cliff. It looks like it completely ignores ground tiles, and only changes movement when encountering a wall. To me it looks like the only solution would be finding a way to break the enemy normal behaviour. I've mentioned a playthrough on irc that features an enemy stopping firing. The fact is that the enemy stops moving as well. Either way, I'm sure this is a glitch, and if it happen to be possible to trigger on other enemies would result in the boss skip being possible. Below is the video in question. Go at 2:22 and observe how the ceiling enemy stops both firing and moving. I remember to have managed to get this on an enemy of the same kind in the same stage, but on a different segment. Link to video Since we're here, I'd like to point out another interesting enemy behaviour occurring in another video of the same youtuber. In the following video, at 5:52, the player jumps on an object platform with timed self-distruction. Then, goes right and the folloring object platform explodes the moment is spawned. I wonder if the new platform exploded because the timer of the previous one has gone to zero in the same moment it spawned. I wonder actual enemies' behaviour can be manipulated in a similar fashion. Here is the video: Link to video We really have no other hopes other than discovering new glitches. Edit: That object platform exploded simply because it was shoot.
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
Editor, Skilled player (1199)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
Part of the unloading terrain includes a chunk of wall. What I'm curious about is whether this gives the enemy more room to wander toward us, or if it'll respect the old segment and turn around at the old spot despite the fact it is no longer loaded. Apparently, External Radar isn't working in this almost latest BizHawk. Oh, frustration. In any case, this off-screen madness is just alluring. The skip would be so nice! EDIT: Apparently, the enemy does approach more once the prior segment goes away, if it is still moving right before its ouch delays. I was using my hitboxes script, a "secret" feature to adjust its scaling on the fly so I can use it to see off-screen hitboxes. So that leaves a few questions: Whether we can delay the enemy long enough to make use of this expanded space, and secondly, what we can use to reach this spot. There's still no way to make it actually enter the room onscreen, as there are legitimately loaded solid tiles in the way, but can we use this small edge at all?
Editor, Reviewer, Skilled player (1354)
Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1646
Location: Italy
No, it looks like there is really no way to hinder the enemy for long enough. We really need to discover new ways to break the game. For example, skipping the animation of the door closing after entering the boss room would help a lot. By the way, today on irc I theorized a possible improvement for Stage 3 (no typo). The good new is: no, there is no chance for saving a frame rule, so we're not gonna have to resync the run again. The other good new is that we could still somehow save a lag frame, by using a slightly different route that saves 1 barrier at the cost of sacrificing some frames. Since we're at 4/8 with the dialog frame rule, it's worth a shot. From my calculations, it should be possible... But in my try something went wrong and lost too many frames in segment 7. Have here a .tasproj if you're interested: https://filebin.net/xqu7iho82h4fs6em/ZM_s2_BossEntertain_21.bk2.tasproj Edit: Stage 13 resynced, except for boss battle. So, it looks like we need 1 frame to save a 4-frames animation frame rule with s12 boss skip, but it looks to me to be impossible. Also, it probably won't be enough for saving a dialog frame rule in the following stage, so I guess the only thing left to do is to sacrifice 2 or 3 frames for saving some lag frames in Stage 12.
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
Editor, Skilled player (1199)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
No, it looks like there is really no way to hinder the enemy for long enough.
I do not believe this statement. That is all.
Editor, Reviewer, Skilled player (1354)
Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1646
Location: Italy
I'm sorry, I don't know what has happened to me, this isn't like me. As an apology, have this 12 frames improvement. And we're short on Laser ammo again. Also, Stages 14, 15, and 16 look unrefined... Looks like there is still some work to do. Edit: managed to get 3 more Laser ammo in Stage 13, at the cost of getting 1 lag frame. If you're interested to see: https://filebin.net/qev1n6y35x45m7gc/ZM_s2_BossEntertain_28.bk2.tasproj Edit 2: Zook Man ZX4 in 73730. I've basically pasted the s14, s15, and s16 from the latest WIP by FatRatKnight before the new improvements. Added a loseless entertaining with s14 boss door and removed an Ammo Tank usage at beginning of s15. First, I have an idea about the lag frame popped out in s13. After the walljumps for clipping through the ceiling at half of the stage, when we land, an enemy spawns on bottom of screen. This could be avoided by walljumping 1 or 2 pixels lower, so that the camera wouldn't descend. Maybe this could be enough to avoid that lag frame. Second, a lag frame popped out at half of s15 and I didn't struggled much with it. Apart from these two lag frames, in my opinion we need to improve stages 12, 14, 15, and 16, though they look much solid to me... But maybe it's just because I'm tired in these days.
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
Editor, Skilled player (1199)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
So... We've resynced in a full beginning-to-end run. In case anyone's curious about ammo left on ending: _6 - Flame 11 - Whirlwind (went entirely unused) _2 - Dirt _0 - Bubble _5 - Missile _2 - Star _3 - Spikeball _3 - Laser Mostly, I'm impressed with how much we're able to avoid pausing to refill ammo. Also, frame counts: 73730 - Our movie 83628 - Team 4's run (winning DTC6 run) Yeah, my stuff in the later stages definitely looked unclean, aside from s16. Anything from the teams as inspiration may be needed. Going back over a table produced in the DTC6 topic: s14 - Team 7 cleared stage portion fastest, followed by Teams 3 and 4. s15 - Team 6 this time, followed by 3 and 5. Just need to remember to clean up s11 boss re-fight, too. We don't need the meteor double-hit if it'll help us get damage-free lag-free fight, but we might still need a meteor single-hit. My desire to finish TASing this game has almost completely dropped off now. Proximity to the endpoint is apparently not a sufficient motivating factor to me. That is, I forget about projects when 99% complete, and never get that last 1%. I'll try to remain a presence in case there's a bit more to offer from what seems like my encyclopedic capacity to recall even small tricks and mechanics.
keylie
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (2840)
Joined: 3/17/2013
Posts: 392
Improved s13 (34 frames) and s15 (18 frames): User movie #42133629913507284 I had bad luck on ammo drop during fire dash, so I'm short on fire at the beginning of s16 :/
Active player (312)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
FatRatKnight wrote:
My desire to finish TASing this game has almost completely dropped off now. Proximity to the endpoint is apparently not a sufficient motivating factor to me.
lol, finally
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
keylie
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (2840)
Joined: 3/17/2013
Posts: 392
End at 73679: User movie #42161070807090315. Saved a few frames in s13 but lost a few frames in s15 to grab an ammo drop for the laser.
1 2
5 6 7