The X-Ray mode one is pretty cool, but seems too complicated to setup to be worth using somewhere.
The quicksand one is very interesting! I hope we can find a way to use it to save time. How does it work exactly? Why does the quicksand activates the stationary Samus?
Edit: Any chance of this working on Lava too?
The X-Ray mode one is pretty cool, but seems too complicated to setup to be worth using somewhere.
The quicksand one is very interesting! I hope we can find a way to use it to save time. How does it work exactly? Why does the quicksand activates the stationary Samus?
Edit: Any chance of this working on Lava too?
It is hard to explain how the trick works, as it took me many days to figure out aswell.
Basically you have to cancel knockback animation , and be able to shinespark with jump input on the magic frame.
Quicksand allows samus to stand up almost instantly after cancelling knockback animation.
the reason the glitch happens is completely related to the following memory address:
7E:18AA - 7E:18AB Samus's hurt-timer (pushed back, unable to move)
Hurt timer must end on the same frame you start shinespark with A input.
So you have to be able to stand either in air or ground while activating spark
So if you can cancel the knockback animation and shinespark right after that, in the magic frame, you can get a free spark anywhere?
Edit: Your edit answered the question.
Well, in that case, if Samus is in a specific position close to a ledge or something like that and get a damage boost that puts her on the ledge in the magic frame, if we can make it work consistently, then we would probably have many places to setup this trick.
Well, in that case, if Samus is in a specific position close to a ledge or something like that and get a damage boost that puts her on the ledge in the magic frame trick.
Can anybody explain to me what's going on in that replay? Do you just get two free sparks without even having to charge one up as long as you can take damage while inside an object/frozen enemy? Does that require some particular setup other than freezing one enemy and getting a hit from another?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I suggested exactly something like that to Taco yesterday, except that my idea would be to use just one enemy, get inside his hitbox while invencible (after getting hit by something) and position Samus to get a damage from the enemy while freezing it in the same frame the damage occurs or something like that, in a way you land on top of it's hitbox.
Moozooh: It's just the trick described above by sniq where, if you have a spark to activate and you activate it in the same frame the hurt timer will end you get a free spark. He used a frozen enemy so he is inside it's hitbox and can land on top of it and activate the shinespark in the right moment.
I suggested exactly something like that to Taco yesterday
And I mentioned it to Sniq. :) I have to admit, though, that I didn't actually expect it to work at all. We're trying out a ton of different ideas right now.
That's a nice trick! It will probably be useful. Now is to look for places where it could be useful and if you really have to use two enemies, like sniq did, or if it's possible with the original idea of just one enemy + invencibility time.
I should also note that
Eye of the Beholder wrote:
Moozooh: It's just the trick described above by sniq where, if you have a spark to activate and you activate it in the same frame the hurt timer will end you get a free spark.
Isn't the full story. I don't think the situations that cause the glitch to occur are fully understood yet, but also relevant here is 7E0B36. This address keeps track of whether Samus is on the ground (0), rising (1), or falling (2). Normally, activating a shinespark sets it to 1, but everything that has caused this glitch to occur keeps that address at 2 for the duration of the shinespark wind-up. It just so happens that the address is forced to be 2 after the hurt timer (7E188A) reaches 0, but that's not all there is to it; if it were, it would be possible to damage boost back for a frame or two and then activate the spark while still in the air. Landing first is a requirement here, for some reason. The normal way of performing the glitch - unmorphing after taking damage from a spike - kind of imitates landing, hence why that works.
There may be other unknown variables involved, though, as I've been told that using the cheats to keep 7E0B36 on 2 and shinesparking normally doesn't cause the glitch to work; it too could just be a result of the real cause. Then again, that's with cheats, so I wouldn't call it reliable information at all.
I did some test with this and not surprisingly it's possible to get the double spark by getting stuck with the feet inside a respawning block and then get hit by an enemy while having a shinespark ready. Not sure if this is useful anywhere but at least it's one more option to activate it.
I did some debugging on this shinespark glitch and what happens is that a code pointer (7E0A58) gets set to the wrong value while in the shinespark pose. Normally when you start a shinespark that pointer gets set to use code that deals with shinesparking.
But when we start a shinespark at the same time as the "knockback timer" (7E18AA) runs out and while the "knockback direction" (7E0A52) is above zero, the game will run code to clean up the knockback state.
This code runs after the shinespark initiation code and one of the things it does is reset the code pointer (7E0A58) to point to "normal movement code". This then makes the game not really able to handle the "waiting to start a shinespark" pose and samus will just sit there.
I haven't yet fully researched why the shinespark counter sticks to 1 when you shinespark in this pose after the counter first have run to 0, but I guess it's a glitch caused by shinesparking when you're not supposed to be able to.
Also, after learning more about this glitch and talking to Taco we learned that this is now also possible:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/272343641/slopespark.smv
Turns out all you need is a slope and something to knock you into it :)
Great job for finding even more details about that glitch , total. I cant watch those smvs right now but im curious: Does that slope spark also work suitless underwater? Or suitless slope x-mode?
Great job for finding even more details about that glitch , total. I cant watch those smvs right now but im curious: Does that slope spark also work suitless underwater? Or suitless slope x-mode?
A normal slope spark doesn't work in suitless underwater, unfortunately. Dunno about with x-mode.
As long as we're talking about Shinesparks, I'm curious, do any of you guys know of this? I came across it during a visit to the Super Metroid board at GameFAQs.
Link to video
Joined: 10/29/2014
Posts: 176
Location: Bavaria, Germany
boct1584, yes of course this is known, at least by Sniq and Total, since this video by SUPERMETROIDFTP here was meant as further explanation on my Crystal Spark method (for which I and Dessyreqt made a video) that I discovered more than a year ago during my research on non-Morphingball Crystal Flash instances.
Regarding TASes, the issue with this is that it takes quite a lot of ammunition away, it needs some time for the Crystal Flash and one would mostly need to walk with BlueSuit to travel further, and thus it seems inferior to the FlashSuit techniques.
But it is nice to see that the guys over at GameFAQs regarding Super Metroid are at least not that many lightyears behind the state of the art. ;)
Edit: As a sidenote, might it be possible at Shaktool during the waiting phase in the 100% branch to set such a FlashSuit method with enemy-knockback and suitable block at the floor as stepping stone up (provided it would save time at all, which might be possible, since as far as I remember, a shinespark is used right after exiting Springball´s area)?(yes this is possible, after getting some pixels into the ground and damage-boosting, to land early).
2. Edit: Important sidenote: I just realized, that such a Slope-Spark at the western Maridian beach area to generate FlashSuit actually enables a new, 13th 14% category, namely 14%HighJump-Speed(PAL). In this category, one would with FlashSuit spark up the Everest, then with HighJump climb up to the beach for the Slope-Spark setup for a FlashSuit for pre-Botwoon room, then killing Draygon from above and escaping pre-Draygon room via suitless 1-Wall-Climb (which is so far the reason why it would be PAL-only). If we though find a way to get under such circumstances a FlashSuit produced in Colosseum room, or to set up a FlashSuit-producing spark at pre-Botwoon room using the previously generated FlashSuit, then it would be a 14% branch for NTSC aswell.(For PAL there are now 15 options.)
3. Edit: Extremely important remark: It seems that Samus in a TAS can via Slope-X-Mode and a following shinespark during X-Mode obtain extremely high speed values outside of the realm of any so far known speeds!
SUPERMETROIDFTP demonstrates that in this video:
Link to video
Furthermore, Tewtal looked somewhat into this (and I hope we will get some more information on this in the near future), and it seems that the speed with which Samus moves after X-Mode is released depends (proportionally?) on the frame-wise lenght of the shinespark during X-Mode. Tewtal said that he got up to 440 speed, i.e. moving 440 pixels per frame, and continueing with roughly this speed.
Further research on this matter definitely needs to be done!
collect, analyse, categorise.
"Mathematics - When tool-assisted skills are just not enough" ;)
Don't want to be taking up so much space adding to posts, but might be worth mentioning and letting others know for what games 1) already some TAS work has been done (ordered in decreasing amount, relative to a game completion) by me and 2) I am (in decreasing order) planning/considering to TAS them. Those would majorly be SNES games (if not, it will be indicated in the list) I'm focusing on.
1) Spanky's Quest; On the Ball/Cameltry; Musya; Super R-Type; Plok; Sutte Hakkun; The Wizard of Oz; Battletoads Doubledragon; Super Ghouls'n Ghosts; Firepower 2000; Brain Lord; Warios Woods; Super Turrican; The Humans.
2) Secret Command (SEGA); Star Force (NES); Hyperzone; Aladdin; R-Type 3; Power Blade 2 (NES); Super Turrican 2; First Samurai.
(last updated: 18.03.2018)
3. Edit: Extremely important remark: It seems that Samus in a TAS can via Slope-X-Mode and a following shinespark during X-Mode obtain extremely high speed values outside of the realm of any so far known speeds!
SUPERMETROIDFTP demonstrates that in this video:
Link to video
Furthermore, Tewtal looked somewhat into this (and I hope we will get some more information on this in the near future), and it seems that the speed with which Samus moves after X-Mode is released depends (proportionally?) on the frame-wise lenght of the shinespark during X-Mode. Tewtal said that he got up to 440 speed, i.e. moving 440 pixels per frame, and continueing with roughly this speed.
Further research on this matter definitely needs to be done!
I think this needs to be discussed -- the glitch itself, not just this single application of it. Should it be allowed in non-glitched run categories? Should it not be?
Joined: 10/29/2014
Posts: 176
Location: Bavaria, Germany
First of all, I made a map (via looking through the SMILE editor) of all (I might potentially though have missed a few spots) potential squares (for NTSC) in the map that contain places at which this "SuperJump" glitch (i.e. the Backwards Longjump of Super Metroid ;) ) could be activated, provided knockback at some kind of diagonal ground-type slope is needed:
The orange parts in there mean that certain room states are required for a slope being at the corresponding square (e.g. in the case of the attic in Wrecked Ship) or for a knockback-source being there, but the green squares show places where the room state does not matter. Also, in Ceres there would be one room two rooms that technically would allow the glitch to be started, but one usually will not have the required items there.
Then, the second thing I wanted to mention is, that, before people start throwing suggestions/ideas/opinions potentially "early"/unprepared into the discussion regarding this glitch being allowed (or not allowed) to be used in certain TAS branches, I would like that its full applicable potential is derived beforehand, aswell as the detailed restrictions/limitations that it has to be figured out, in the sense of requirements that need to be met. In other words, I would like to have the object of discussion and all its consequences to be revealed/clear enough, to then be enabled to discuss about a more known/familiar subject.
Edit: Considering that the applications of this SuperJump might be restricted to vertical upwards movements (since it could be that horizontal speed after a shinespark during X-Mode gets cancelled in such a setup), the instances in which a coloured square is located at the bottom of a long vertical room, in a situation in which one wants to travel upwards; those might be more relevant, I assume.
collect, analyse, categorise.
"Mathematics - When tool-assisted skills are just not enough" ;)
Don't want to be taking up so much space adding to posts, but might be worth mentioning and letting others know for what games 1) already some TAS work has been done (ordered in decreasing amount, relative to a game completion) by me and 2) I am (in decreasing order) planning/considering to TAS them. Those would majorly be SNES games (if not, it will be indicated in the list) I'm focusing on.
1) Spanky's Quest; On the Ball/Cameltry; Musya; Super R-Type; Plok; Sutte Hakkun; The Wizard of Oz; Battletoads Doubledragon; Super Ghouls'n Ghosts; Firepower 2000; Brain Lord; Warios Woods; Super Turrican; The Humans.
2) Secret Command (SEGA); Star Force (NES); Hyperzone; Aladdin; R-Type 3; Power Blade 2 (NES); Super Turrican 2; First Samurai.
(last updated: 18.03.2018)
Joined: 11/26/2010
Posts: 454
Location: New York, US
Taco wrote:
Aran Jaeger wrote:
3. Edit: Extremely important remark: It seems that Samus in a TAS can via Slope-X-Mode and a following shinespark during X-Mode obtain extremely high speed values outside of the realm of any so far known speeds!
SUPERMETROIDFTP demonstrates that in this video:
Link to video
Furthermore, Tewtal looked somewhat into this (and I hope we will get some more information on this in the near future), and it seems that the speed with which Samus moves after X-Mode is released depends (proportionally?) on the frame-wise lenght of the shinespark during X-Mode. Tewtal said that he got up to 440 speed, i.e. moving 440 pixels per frame, and continueing with roughly this speed.
Further research on this matter definitely needs to be done!
I think this needs to be discussed -- the glitch itself, not just this single application of it. Should it be allowed in non-glitched run categories? Should it not be?
WTF have you guys done to this game!? I'm not sure if it should be allowed or not to be honest. I mean its glitched but, I don't see it as a major glitch so maybe it could be used. Really hard to say right now other then great work on breaking this game even further!!!
The orange parts in there mean that certain room states are required for a slope being at the corresponding square (e.g. in the case of the attic in Wrecked Ship) or for a knockback-source being there, but the green squares show places where the room state does not matter. Also, in Ceres there would be 
