Post subject: I found the basic secret of TASing :)
Joined: 5/13/2013
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You know how I'm always asking how to save movies to come back to later and how to use savestates properly and stuff like that? It was right under my nose the whole time: TASeditor. I've got the hang of out to use the controls with it etc. Now I've just got to learn how to string it together into a proper TAS...
A wise man once said "Damn, that's one hell of a steak."
ars4326
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Another quirky mindset that has helped me in TASing is the idea that you're playing an entirely different video game, 1 frame at a time (with the goal of completing as fast as possible, of course).
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
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ars4326 wrote:
Another quirky mindset that has helped me in TASing is the idea that you're playing an entirely different video game, 1 frame at a time (with the goal of completing as fast as possible, of course).
I've always thought about it that way, kind of. But let's go deeper: what kind of game does it become when you start TASing it? I'd say... Some sort of puzzle/strategy game about time travel and alternate dimensions. Now we have to sell that game to the public and write the back of the cover :D "Try to change and ultimately control what happens through the whole timeline to create the ideal dimension at the end! Will you go for speed? Will you go for style? What about both? Or will you just color a dinosaur for fun? The choices are endless, so are their consequences, but always stay on your toes, the fearsome Grue is watching you! *some features may require a subscription to TASVideos Pro" Unfortunately, the game may not be received well by the press, examples: The game is ridiculously hard, it's an endless loop of restarting the same parts over and over because the player loses frames for no apparent reason, and nothing is explained in-game. -Happy Casual Player Magazine The game is pathetically easy, there are too many checkpoints, anyone can finish it in one sitting without seeing the game over screen once. -True Hardcore Gamer Magazine Amateurish. The developers didn't even try to apply special effects to the time travel mechanics, what a missed opportunity. And the framerate is worse than subpar. -SuperHypeGames.com Yes, I was bored :P
Samsara
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I think the real basic secret of TASing is your mindset going into it. Thoughts are what ultimately lead to actions, so thinking the right things will eventually lead to solid publication-worthy TASes. The way I've been looking at TASing recently has been something like this:
    1. My first attempt is never good enough. 2. There's always a faster way, I just need to find it. 3. My knowledge is just as important as anyone else's. 4. Each screen is its own game.
1. No matter what it is, if it's a brand new movie for a game not on the site or an improvement to an existing movie, even if it's an improvement to your own existing movie, you'll always be able to improve your first attempt. You'll honestly be surprised at how much you can improve your first attempt when you attempt to improve it. The key is that with each attempt, you learn more and more. It's like learning any other skill: You never start off being the best, but each time you try you do it a little better. You run through a stage for the first time, it's not perfect. You try it again and you start thinking "Okay, I think there's a jump coming up? I should prepare for that." You try it a third time and start thinking "Maybe I could land earlier after that jump and set up for a second jump to bypass that slope?" Eventually, you get so familiar with the section that you can start planning long in advance. That's when you know it's safer to move on. 2. This is about testing. Lots and lots of testing. Test every route, every decision, every frame, and when you think you've found the best one, keep testing to see if there's something better. This also applies to constantly watching and re-watching your run every step of the way. Ever since DTC5 I've gotten into the habit of watching my progress a run I'm working on every single time I start working on it again, and I'll often think "I can probably do that faster" and most of the time I'm right. 3. I tend to go into my first run of a game "blind". I don't look up speed tricks or information until I'm finished with a test run and start working on something I may want to submit. There are a couple reasons for this, one being that I just like discovering things on my own. It's a really nice motivation boost, something that keeps me going in those moments where I think I'm making no progress. "Hey, you found this glitch and the world has to see it!" or "Hey, this looks awesome, you gotta keep going!" are thoughts that go through my head a lot. Second reason is because when I've looked up information before starting a run, I overlooked things that I should have tested, assuming that the information laid out before me is all I needed to know. Moon Crystal comes to mind almost immediately: My initial improvement was just optimization and lag reduction, and Hotarubi's currently published run included a lot of strategy and route changes I hadn't even considered. To put it more simply: The less I know about a game, the more I end up discovering by the time I've finished. I only look up information when I don't think there's any more information left for me to gather on my own. 4. This is sort of related to point 1, but my method has always been about setting benchmarks and trying to beat them. This is more or less how I approach each screen: "I did this section in 1000 frames. Let's see if I can do it faster." "Okay, now I did it in 995 frames. I'll try a different route this time." "Okay, that route was 996 frames. Maybe a second look would be beneficial...?" "Yep, it's down to 992 frames now, but looking back I think I did this a little slow..." "Interesting. I did the first half of this section in 465 frames in this last attempt, but 460 frames in the first attempt. Where did I go wrong?" "Ah, okay. So maybe the first route is faster? I'll try it again..." "Aha! It is faster!" TASing is like any "real" long-term goal, almost like losing weight. You have to treat it as a series of small goals instead of a single large goal. You shouldn't go into a TAS thinking "Okay, I just started this, I have to get through 30 minutes of game." You should sit down and think "Okay, I just started this, I have to get through 1 minute of Stage 1." Small victories are motivating, and you'll always get to the large victory at the end regardless, so why not keep yourself motivated along the way? I apologize for the lengthy post. I probably think about TASing more than I actually sit down and work on one. Note that this is just how I think about things and that these points aren't exactly guaranteed to help, but I'd recommend at least keeping them in mind if you're new to the hobby and looking to improve.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
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Samsara wrote:
I apologize for the lengthy post.
Don't. That's probably the best post I have read here since October.
I probably think about TASing more than I actually sit down and work on one.
That's the case for me with speedrunning, and it's sad. :(
AzumaK wrote: I swear my 1 year old daughter's favorite TASVideo is your R4MI run :3 xxNKxx wrote: ok thanks handsome feos :D Help improving TASVideos!
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Samsara: I've written something like that before, need your input on it. http://tasvideos.org/TasingGuide/TASArt.html
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I usually end up TASing games that I realize have already been submitted to the site, but to avoid breaking rules I just upload them to Youtube for reference.
A wise man once said "Damn, that's one hell of a steak."
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The basic secret of tasing? Focus on the journey, not the destination. Enjoy the ride!
Joined: 5/13/2013
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Another thing, whenever I'm using TASeditor and a transition happens in the game [fading to black to reveal another part of the town, etc.], there are a few snippets of the input area that are green instead of red. I'm guessing those are opportunities for glitching?
A wise man once said "Damn, that's one hell of a steak."
Samsara
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feos wrote:
Samsara: I've written something like that before, need your input on it. http://tasvideos.org/TasingGuide/TASArt.html
I like it! This is something I could see fleshed out and presented as a proper tutorial for newbies.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
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feos wrote:
http://tasvideos.org/TasingGuide/TASArt.html
Really good page, feos! I think it summarizes the whole experience of approaching a TAS well. The "Love" section particularly stood out to me because I've noticed I really do fall in love with the game and the process of TASing it as you're working on it, even if it's considered a "bad" game.
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YushiroGowa wrote:
I usually end up TASing games that I realize have already been submitted to the site, but to avoid breaking rules I just upload them to Youtube for reference.
Hmm? There is no rule that says you can't submit a TAS for a game that already has one published. (Of course yours needs to improve on it if you want it to have a chance of being published, but no rule stops you from submitting in either case.)
Noxxa
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Warp wrote:
(Of course yours needs to improve on it if you want it to have a chance of being published, but no rule stops you from submitting in either case.)
If the movie doesn't improve on a published run if there is any, then obviously submitting that movie would break the rule that a movie must beat all existing records. It's best not to submit in such a case.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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feos wrote:
Samsara: I've written something like that before, need your input on it. http://tasvideos.org/TasingGuide/TASArt.html
Well, feos you wrote that? That's a surprise, I can see you edited it last but for some reason I hadn't thought you wrote the whole thing. These guidelines were something I returned to periodically throughout the production of my TAS, and they were very helpful. They're written in a way that intrigued me as to what a TAS could be and inspired me to try different things. I really took them to heart, and I guess it paid off in a sense because eventually I earned my star, which I don't think I could've done without them. I was going to post this link myself until I saw you already did.
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I am the only author: http://tasvideos.org/pageinfo.exe?page=TasingGuide%2FTASArt But unexpectedly, you seem to be my mental bro, because it's not the first time our notion on TAS matches so much :)
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.