1 2
Posted: 3/29/2012 11:44 AM
Post subject: Decide the file extension of bizhawk movies here
Quote
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3573)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
TASer of 2010 NES TASer of 2010 DS TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 NES TASer of 2008 NES TAS of 2008 Funny TAS of 2008 TASer of 2007 NES TASer of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
First let me say, you people are nuts. Actually HATING a simple extension. So I dont agree, and this is wasting my important development time in my ideas. But, you win. I don't want to keep something people actually HATE to the point of wanting to throw insults. Of the alternative suggestions, the one I like the most is .movie (to go along with .state that is the extension of savestates). But before I change it, I want to know in advance if people are going to hate it and make topics. So here is your change to convince me of a better name change. Commence discussion.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Posted: 3/29/2012 11:55 AM
Quote
turska
Experienced player (764)
Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 146
Computer TASer of 2012
I recommend .bmovie.
Posted: 3/29/2012 12:01 PM
Quote
Dada
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
You just know people are gonna submit other hilarious three-letter extensions based on Hourglass's .wtf, so let's disregard those in advance. How about .bhk or bkm? Not that I think .tas is too bad. Little unspecific, but that's not such a big problem.
Posted: 3/29/2012 12:09 PM
Quote
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4124)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
Exotic platforms TASer of 2018 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018 Exotic platforms TASer of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TASer of 2016 Exotic platforms TAS of 2016 Gameboy TASer of 2013
My vote is for .bkm (BizHawk Movie file). .bhm keeps making me think of the Bahamas rather than something else. Otherwise, .bmovie is good too. I think .movie is a bit too nonspecific though, which could cause confusion for other things.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 3/29/2012 12:17 PM
Quote
scrimpeh
Editor, Skilled player (1439)
Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 2108
TAS of 2017 First edition TAS of 2017 PSX TAS of 2017
I'm still for keeping .tas, but if you really want it changed, I like .biz the most, simply because it makes it unique to the emulator name. Unless we're gonna change that too, but honestly.
Posted: 3/29/2012 2:07 PM
Quote
ALAKTORN
He/Him
Former player
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
DS TAS of 2012
Mothrayas wrote:
My vote is for .bkm (BizHawk Movie file).
^
Posted: 3/29/2012 2:09 PM
Quote
AnS
Emulator Coder, Experienced player (728)
Joined: 2/23/2006
Posts: 682
I vote for .bkm .bmovie does sound like "B-movies", which belittles TASes. Also bmovie could as well be "bsnes movie", nothing tells it's Bizhawk movie. You can leave .tas for TAStudio project files, if you really want to use the extension somewhere.
Posted: 3/29/2012 2:37 PM
(Edited: 3/29/2012 3:12 PM)
Quote
feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
.biz is awesome! And .tas is awesome for a binary taseditor tastudio project WITH greenzone. I see no reason to leave tastudio projects in text format as you can splice in tastudio directly way more comfortably (after it is developed up to the point of 2.1.6's taseditor), and vice versa - working in notepad++ with a file with greenzone is insane. AnS, what do you think about removing currently optional text format (except for the header) from .fm3? Let it be kept by .fm2 only?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 3/29/2012 2:42 PM
Quote
Dragonfangs
Active player (378)
Joined: 6/5/2006
Posts: 188
Location: Malmö, Sweden
GBA TAS of 2019 GBA TAS of 2013 GBx TAS of 2007
I never really saw the problem with .tas, but whatever. .biz sounds fine too.
Even the best player is limited by the speed of his fingers, or his mind's ability to control them. But what happens when speed is not a factor, when theory becomes reality?
Posted: 3/29/2012 3:59 PM
Quote
Lex
Joined: 6/25/2007
Posts: 732
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
.input .inputstream .playerinput .gameplay It's not really a "movie". It's just a stream of player input data.
Posted: 3/29/2012 4:16 PM
Quote
RachelB
She/Her
Player (129)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
.bkm and .movie are both good.
Posted: 3/29/2012 4:22 PM
Quote
AnS
Emulator Coder, Experienced player (728)
Joined: 2/23/2006
Posts: 682
feos wrote:
AnS, what do you think about removing currently optional text format (except for the header) from .fm3? Let it be kept by .fm2 only?
I think this is offtopic. And fm3 is not a movie format, fm3 is just the principle of storing extra data at the end of any movie format, so it should not mess with host (movie) properties. Since fm2 supports both text and binary, fm3 naturally also supports both. If Bizhawk movie supports text only, TAStudio's gonna support text only. And so on.
Lex wrote:
.input .inputstream .playerinput .gameplay It's not really a "movie". It's just a stream of player input data.
Input log is only one part of the movie file (although the most important). There are subtitles, author comments, initial savestate and possibly some more movie-related data (like "chapters").
Posted: 3/29/2012 4:52 PM
Quote
FatRatKnight
Editor, Skilled player (1202)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
That was me hating it. Don't mean to cause harsh feelings, but I prefer honesty over keeping things gentle. I am thankful for the decision to change, however. Please tell me that the reasons I've given had also helped to swing the decision. I'd hate it if the only thing that did it was my hate, as then I'd hate myself for hating, and that, in turn, just works out in a stable loop. ... As for insults, I will never outright intentionally say them. That's no good for anything, really. I may have exaggerated on the insults part, but my strong dislike is still in there. But as for a new extension name... I think that these "movies" are more like replay files. It's not an actual media file like .mp4, so I think the term "replay" fits better. Still, "movie" isn't entirely inaccurate, as it is showing a sequence of actions like a movie, and is a more familiar term around here. So, my top suggestions (until someone comes up with something better): .bkm - Suggested before, and feels unique enough. .rbk - Replay, Bizhawk - Hopefully seems clear enough. .bkmr - Adding Replay on top of the previous bkm. Other thoughts that crossed my mind, but decided they don't sound right: .brf - Bizhawk Replay File - except this is too close to barf... .rfb - Replay File, Bizhawk - Actually, rf reminds me of radio frequency. .bkr - Bizhawk Replay. - Because we're bakers. .bzrp - Bizhawk Replay - Just something I burped out.
Posted: 3/29/2012 4:59 PM
Quote
Dada
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
AnS wrote:
.bmovie does sound like "B-movies"
That's the point.
Posted: 3/29/2012 5:25 PM
Quote
CoolKirby
Editor, Experienced player (570)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4036
Exotic platforms TASer of 2014 NES TAS of 2013
FatRatKnight wrote:
Please tell me that the reasons I've given had also helped to swing the decision. I'd hate it if the only thing that did it was my hate, as then I'd hate myself for hating, and that, in turn, just works out in a stable loop.
When adelikat mentioned some people hating the extension, I'm certain he was alluding to your post. You may have spurred him to start this topic, so good job.
FatRatKnight wrote:
.bkm - Suggested before, and feels unique enough.
I agree. I really like ".bkm", and definitely prefer it to ".tas".
Posted: 3/29/2012 5:25 PM
Quote
Lex
Joined: 6/25/2007
Posts: 732
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
It's not a "movie" because it doesn't have any actual animation on its own. "Movie" implies video animation. The most neutral term, in light of AnS' point that the file contains far more than just a controller input stream, is "replay".
Posted: 3/29/2012 7:20 PM
Quote
zeromus
Editor, Emulator Coder
Joined: 8/7/2008
Posts: 1156
I've always thought the use of the term 'movie' here was really confusing. If folks are seriously bringing up the idea of calling them replays instead, then im all in favor.
Posted: 3/29/2012 7:26 PM
Quote
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4124)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
Exotic platforms TASer of 2018 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018 Exotic platforms TASer of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TASer of 2016 Exotic platforms TAS of 2016 Gameboy TASer of 2013
If "movie" is that much of a problem, then just replace it with "replay". My vote will be with ".bkr" (BizHawk Replay file) rather than ".bkm", then.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 3/29/2012 7:31 PM
Quote
CoolKirby
Editor, Experienced player (570)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4036
Exotic platforms TASer of 2014 NES TAS of 2013
Mothrayas wrote:
My vote will be with ".bkr" (BizHawk Replay file) rather than ".bkm", then.
I agree. .bkr is just as good as .bkm.
Posted: 3/29/2012 7:31 PM
Quote
arukAdo
Experienced player (961)
Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 939
Location: Castle Keep
PSX TAS of 2011 PSX TAS of 2010 Rookie of 2009 New systems TASer of 2009 New systems TAS of 2009
I agree "movies" is very misleading, replay sound more adequate. Also I hope you dont waste your time with this adelikat, its way beyond ridiculous, now well its yours of course so do as you want, but this sound so goofy... lol
Tasvideos.org personal page
Posted: 3/29/2012 7:38 PM
Quote
Canar
Joined: 4/1/2010
Posts: 96
I quite like .biz, but it's rather unspecific. .bkr is the one that appeals most to me. I was never a huge fan of the .tas decision, but I was content with the colour of the proverbial bike shed. Nonetheless, it is reassuring to see you relent in the face of vocal opposition, adelikat.
Posted: 3/29/2012 8:41 PM
Quote
Lex
Joined: 6/25/2007
Posts: 732
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
I'm in agreement that you should call it whatever you want, considering it's your project. I just hope what you want is something neutral and self-descriptive. Neutrality fosters popularity, after all. All in all, while this issue is clearly very minor and purely cosmetic, it's interesting.
Posted: 3/29/2012 9:26 PM
(Edited: 3/29/2012 10:03 PM)
Post subject: for future reference
Quote
moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
You could actually dig a bit deeper with this. The main reason people who dislike ".tas" do so is because purportedly unassisted replays would look bad, misleading. or otherwise inappropriate with such an extension. However, I believe nobody who has opposed .tas so far is against having such extension for actual TASes. So what I propose instead is adding a checkbox to the movie recording dialog, "block tool-assistance" (or just "block tools"). If checked, it will write a file with a different extension and a different header, so that simple extension change or copypasting movie content wouldn't be enough to pass one type of replay as another. As per the actual effect, it will, as the name implies, block hotkeys and grey-out menu items for slowdown, savestates, pause button, frame advance, and possibly Lua scripts; i.e. tools that can be used to cheat. I didn't come up with this—it's pretty much identical to MAME's default behavior for replay recording. It won't be a bullet-proof anti-cheating measure, sure, but it will make it much harder to tamper with replays mid-recording, and will at least limit the cheating users of BizHawk to smart and extremely tech-savvy people, who would likely not partake in such activities anyway. This way people who claim their replays to be unassisted will enjoy additional credibility, and those who don't will have no problems using the normal .tas extension either. I could see an additional side-effect to this option being BizHawk's better popularity in communities dedicated to unassisted play, especially considering it's a multiplatform emulator. [EDIT] Some more clarification. MAME's input recording mechanism (and particularly its WolfMAME fork) has been established by various gaming communities to be a sufficient—not absolute or even highly authoritative!—anti-cheating measure because it makes it very hard to use tools such as the slowdown, and if any slowdown (like from a slow CPU) is used, it will be indicated and visible. WolfMAME doesn't claim itself to be an efficient anti-cheating measure, but its audience agrees on the benefits of making cheating harder. Because the harder you make it, the less worthy it will be to cheat in the first place, and thus the amount of potential cheaters shrinks from pretty much everyone to a very small group of people who understand precisely how to do it, can, and are willing to. As I noted in my bike lock analogy, something as simple as a bike lock divides people into two groups: those who carry bolt cutters with them, and everybody else. A simple measure like this doesn't eliminate the probability of theft, but still reduces it by orders of magnitude to acceptable levels. Compressing the non-.tas replay file can further help reducing cheaters' capability to tamper with it, as the easy input editing has no possible benefits outside of TASing.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 3/29/2012 9:41 PM
Quote
Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
Arcade TAS of 2023 Sega TASer of 2021 Sega TAS of 2021
As I said earlier, I don't mind the .tas extension. Feel free to keep it or change it to something else, if people prefer that.
Posted: 3/29/2012 9:55 PM
Quote
Warepire
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2178
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
.biz is already an extension, but I cannot remember for what. .bhm is really inappropriate since BHM is used in the dating world to refer to overweight men (Big Handsome Male), may lead people to creepy places if they find a .bhm file. .tas for me is quite misleading as it gives absolutely no hint at all what program it could belong to. I place my vote for one of these: .bkr .bkm .bhr (BizHawk Replay)
1 2