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Posted: 7/19/2008 1:35 PM
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juef
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Location: Québec, Canada
Awesome!! Does the new party member always come with the same inventory / stats?
Posted: 7/19/2008 4:28 PM
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Dwedit
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Location: Chicago
It's a blank party member with zeroes for all stats who can't level up. I think the only way to get anything else is to have your party size get temporarily shrunken, like at Assaram or Lancel, then it adds your other party members back to the party.
Posted: 7/19/2008 10:18 PM
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juef
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Oh well... still, congratulations for that glitch, I can't wait to see how's the next run gonna be.
Posted: 7/20/2008 11:25 PM
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adelikat
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Very intruiging and potentially a lot more entertaining than the current glitch method. I can't wait to see this.
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Posted: 7/22/2008 2:15 PM
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dave_dfwm
Active player (253)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
Here is a link to the .fcm file that I created. (It's the file that Dwedit took screenshots from). http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1969979827/beenumb.fcm Also, here is the original letter I wrote to Dwedit a while ago... ============================== dave_dfwm wrote: Dwedit, I'm sending this to you since you're probably the only one that can interpret what's going on here. In this movie, 3 things are shown: 1. Most importantly, it is possible to do the dream ruby glitch without the dream ruby! Unfortunately, I still need Killer Bees near Kanave. Scorpion wasps don't cause numbness. I tried to use the poison status as well, but only numbness works. 2. Infinite gold is achieved, if that were to ever be useful. 3. A freaked-out return location in Alefgard that is 'out-of-bounds'. Watch the movie up to frame 36,000 and you'll see where I'm at. A couple of notes: I didn't want to make a huge deal out of this and post it in the public forum since I'm most likely not going to be able to have time to TAS this game again now due to grad school and wedding planning. *Performing the glitch in Aliahan seems much more unpredictable than doing it with the fortune teller. *However, we now have the king -- perhaps saving the game could cause some new results to happen. *I have gotten the 'regular' Alefgard return locations to work in Aliahan using the Dream Ruby item combined with Luisa's place. However, it should be noted that the strange place that I returned to in the video appears to be semi-random... I have done other tests and returned to the same 'out of bounds' area in Alefgard, but had a different starting spot. Perhaps if this strange glitch could be decoded, you could use a wing of wyvern and end up at a spot right next to Zoma's Castle. *In my previous testing before the published glitch run, I was able to get infinite experience points. If this could be done again, a solo hero could get to level 99 and have glitched equipment and do a solo Zoma fight. (My 4 party members were on level 20 in the published run, so this is only ~19 more level-ups to watch... plus, I may not need to spend time in the dream ruby cave). Perhaps another idea would be to just glitch enough experience points (and spells) and some pilgrims and the hero. Then, fight a slime outside of Aliahan, and return to the strange spot. *Also, you probably see that a 'phantom' hero is created with zero attributes and a lot of cypress sticks. You cannot make him leave the party since he is a hero. I don't know what to do about that. He cannot level up. Take a look at this video and let me know what you think. Thanks Dave =============================
Posted: 7/22/2008 2:19 PM
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dave_dfwm
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Joined: 7/30/2006
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Location: Alefgard, USA
A couple more things also. I'm getting married in 4 days (yikes) so no more TASing at least for a couple of weeks/months most likely. Walking outside also produces swamp tiles, but you can still fight enemies. If done right, weird things can happen, such as an invincible character, or enemies attacking themselves. Thanks for the screenshots, Dwedit.
Posted: 7/22/2008 3:56 PM
(Edited: 7/22/2008 4:07 PM)
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Kirkq
Player (210)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
I messed around with the save state a bit. I'm not sure if anyone found this yet, but it's obvious if you were to test a bit. If you go upstairs to the king's room instead of going downstairs, the barrier tiles cause a similar effect. The messages in between steps appear to be shorter as well, but I'm not sure that the memory corruption has the same effect. Also, most cases of saving/resetting the game turn one of your party sprites into a glitchy flashing TM sign, which I found humorous.
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Posted: 7/22/2008 4:04 PM
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adelikat
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I've done a solo hero quest. You would only need to level up a hero to about 60 + the right equipment to beat zoma. Basically you just need a lot of HP and plenty of MP for healall spells. I would find it so incredibly funny if the game were beaten faster with a lone hero XD
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Posted: 7/22/2008 4:47 PM
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dave_dfwm
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Joined: 7/30/2006
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Location: Alefgard, USA
I've done a solo hero quest. You would only need to level up a hero to about 60 + the right equipment to beat zoma. Basically you just need a lot of HP and plenty of MP for healall spells. I would find it so incredibly funny if the game were beaten faster with a lone hero XD
I've thought about that before as well, and even mentioned it in the discussion of my glitched submission. The Noh Mask would be a great asset, since you can still cast spells in battle -- and if you're the only party member, CF status doesn't mean anything except for an annoying message before each attack. If you could manipulate the EXP so you could get to level 60 (as you suggested), you could just get MP and HP while ignoring strength if possible. Then, get to Zoma (equip the Noh Mask right before his battle only), and alternatve between herbs and Lightning, whichever does the most damage. You'll have room in your inventory for 2 herbs, I believe. Then, if your inventory is almost empty, there may be enough treasure in the Shield of Heroes Cave so you can open up chests, discard the mask, and chant return to alefgard to save a bit of travel time.
Posted: 7/22/2008 5:03 PM
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adelikat
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Depending on your possible luck manipulation, the noh mask may not be that necessary either. Zoma could do the finger thing a lot and usually uses breath attacks or snowstorm anyway.
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Posted: 7/23/2008 12:41 PM
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juef
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Joined: 1/29/2007
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Location: Québec, Canada
dave_dfwm wrote:
I'm getting married in 4 days
Wow, congratulations! Lots of love and fun to you both!
adelikat wrote:
I would find it so incredibly funny if the game were beaten faster with a lone hero XD
Agreed! Well, after seeing how far Ortega went alone, I'd understand the hero if he didn't want "friends"! :)
Posted: 1/29/2009 1:07 AM
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dave_dfwm
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Joined: 7/30/2006
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Location: Alefgard, USA
I've regained a bit of interest into improving the glitched version of this run using Aliahan and Luisa. I have two movies to show. The setup is as follows. Kill two pilgrims immediately and drop them off with Luisa. Then, take a party of four (I took Hero, Pilg, Pilg, Wiz) to Kanave. Kill the hero and pilgrim, and make sure one of the other two chars are numb. Return to Aliahan -- note that the Wing of Wyvern can be USED in battle! Go to Luisa, drop off living character, and numb character, in that order. Next, fill in their places with the two previously killed pilgrims. This movie shows how to get to Rimuldar (no Fairy Water necessary, as opposed to the last movie). If this IS related to the music playing, mem[D8] = 93 and mem[DA] = 0B at the exact frame the swamp hits and the return locations are added. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1141636540/Aglitch0.fcm Here is a MUCH FASTER way to get to Rimuldar, using the overworld instead of town. If it is music related, the addressed [D8] and [DA] are C3 and E3, respectively. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/267121765/Aglitch9.fcm I haven't tried getting return locations with the Castle "rondo" music yet. Why pilgrims you ask? Well, their spells are incredibly easy to manipulate, even though I don't understand the mechanics of it all. This can always be done in one step in the upstairs with the pilgrim in party position #1. In my old conversations with Dwedit, he believed that max MP and HP could be manipulated, and I know for a fact that experience points can be manipulated. However, I could only get to level 99 (no fine tuning, so to speak). If we successfully (me or anyone else) find a way to manipulate max MP and max HP, I think that 3 pilgrims and the hero would be a great party. Technically, 4 pilgrims are possible, as I once accidentally 'cloned' one of them, but I wasn't recording at the time, so I don't know how I did it. Anyway, this 999+ HP and MP pilgrims would require NO weapons or armor! Just a Rainbow Drop, Sphere of Light, and Magic (or final) Key. Ideally, the MIDDLE experience byte for each character would be glitched to FF, giving them 65535 experience, enough to make a scroll arrow appear in battle so big spells can be used. One slime would have to be fought outside of Aliahan to make the level ups occur. From there, go straight to Zoma. With the fast overworld glitching, and assuming max HP and MP are glitchable (quickly), the current run could be improved by at least 12 minutes! So, all of you RAM, debug, and hex experts help me out here! Let's glitch stats rather than items!
Posted: 1/29/2009 3:02 AM
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Dwedit
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Location: Chicago
Max HP/MP don't look glitchable, since all addresses are 16 bit and word aligned. No way for an aligned 16 bit value to decrease by 2 and borrow from another byte.
Posted: 1/29/2009 5:03 AM
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dave_dfwm
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Well that's no good. The only time I successfully glitched experience points was when the party was on about level 8 (after a bomb crag fight). Is there any way to glitch it with zero experience? I would like to do this run without a wizard. He uses the poison needle to help get experience for the party, but after that, he is worthless with the exception of using stepguard once in Zoma's castle. Glitching a poison needle for the hero is possible, but time consuming.
Posted: 1/29/2009 5:22 AM
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Dwedit
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edit: Rewrote post, because previous post was wrong... (was mistakenly using big endian byte order) EXP is manipulable. Character #1/#3 high EXP byte is treated as the low byte, and character #2/#4's low byte is treated as the high byte. Assuming one subtraction, Character #1/#3 gets 16646144 extra EXP, and character #2/#4 loses 1 EXP. Character #2/#4 must have at least 1 EXP, and not a multiple of 256 EXP. See Datacystal for the actual memory addresses involved. The more amazing thing though is the ability to mess with the first 28 bytes of the zeropage, and that opens the possibilities of strange positive feedback loops.
Posted: 2/1/2009 7:36 PM
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dave_dfwm
Active player (253)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
Well, some of these RAM addresses are repeats from my previous post, but I have a couple of questions. The glitching of experience, return locations, and even items (at least when you're outside) seems to be related to the music playing. Music addresses, AFAIK, are [D6], [D8], and [DA]. So here is what I figured out. This is assuming all 4 characters in the party are deceased. Town: When [D6] [D8] [DA] = 22, 93, 0B, during the 'red flash' of swamp, player 3 will gain Rimuldar on his return locations, which is address [758] set equal to FE. Outside: When [D6] [D8] [DA] = 4, C3, E3, during the 'red flash' of swamp, player 3 will gain Rimuldar on his return locations, which is address [758] set equal to FE. This musical note occurs almost right away in the sound loop. When [D6] [D8] [DA] = A4, 2D, 82, during the 'red flash' of swamp, player 2 will lose 1 point of experience at address [747], but player 1 will gain lot of experience, when address [746] is changed to FE. This musical note occurs toward the end of the sound loop. ============== Given all of that, is there some sort of "mathematical" formula relating all of these RAM addresses and values together??? By the way, it takes approximately 11 minutes for a solo hero to level up from 1 to 99 (98 level ups). I have approximately 80 levelups in the current published movie. I think Adelikat's idea of a solo hero may be doable... only 19 or so more level ups, and much less item glitching, and a few less fights. However, the boss fights, especially Zoma, would be longer. The 98 levelups, which would come in one fight, would have to be maniuplated to give as much HP and MP as possible, as other stats aren't terribly important. Overall, I'm sure that this type of movie (which I know is able to be completed) will be faster.... but will people prefer it over the current glitch movie if they have to FF through 98 levelups at once?
Posted: 2/1/2009 8:39 PM
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Dwedit
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Location: Chicago
Edit: Looks like I made a big mistake before, the tile number check table does not wrap, it extends to 0x0192. The character number table does wrap though. * A table located at 6DE0 tells you what tiles do. Any 05's indicate a swamp, and any 06's indicate a barrier. On the Overworld, tile #07 is the swamp. Some places have no swamp tiles. * A table at 0x0093 indicates the tile number the character is standing on. AND this number with 1F before checking if it's a swamp tile. * A table in the zeropage starting at 0x68 indicates the character number to mess with. So the addresses to look at to determine effects are X and (X-0x43)&0xFF. But it also matters when you look at them, they need to be correct just as it's checking the swamp tile, which has distinctly different values sitting in the zeropage as the code which pops up the dialog box. The contents of the zeropage as it's executing PC=B0FF are all that matter. Quick look at memory map: Character #0 HP: 0x71C ... Character #0 EXP: 0x744 Character #0 Returns: 0x750 Calculating character number: Pick the byte you want to modify (such as EXP+2: 0x746), subtract 0x71C (we get 0x2A), divide by 2 (we get 0x15). You can also add 0x80 to character number and it won't affect anything, since it gets doubled before it's added to 0x71C. Character numbers needed to change: EXP+2: 0x15 or 0x95 EXP+6: 0x17 or 0x97 RETS+2: 0x1B or 0x9B RETS+6: 0x1D or 0x9D In the overworld, you need to get the corresponding memory value to match tile #7. Values 0x07, 0x27, 0x47, 0x67, 0x87, 0xA7, 0xC7, 0xE7. So those three addresses you were looking at don't appear to affect anything good.
Posted: 2/1/2009 9:38 PM
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adelikat
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One thing I was thinking about. The game uses flags in memory to determine if events have occured. For instance, I found the erdrick flag in order to more easily do solo quests. Would it be possible for these corruption glitches to alter those? Like if the flag for deciding to put in the ortega - king hydra fight could be manipulated, it could save a lot of time in a TAS.
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Posted: 2/1/2009 10:07 PM
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pirohiko
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Joined: 5/7/2008
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Location: Japan
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Hello :) I have made TAS which beat Zoma by solo fighter of 99 level with Japanese version in last year. Please refer to it. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1171997122/DragonQuestIII.fcm http://zoome.jp/pirohiko/diary/2/
Posted: 2/1/2009 10:30 PM
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dave_dfwm
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Location: Alefgard, USA
Pirohiko: Wonderful job! I wish the (U) version of the game had similar mechanics to avoid battles and manipulate critical hits. Also, is that a falcon sword you're using to attack twice?
Posted: 2/1/2009 11:04 PM
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pirohiko
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Location: Japan
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dave: Yes, E Clothes changed to E falcon sword. And, it is easy to treat luck of the Japanese edition than English version. I know, you can change the Battle Spells of third page by reducing Field Spells. The Battle Spells is not usable immediately, but will be usable when you learn Battle Spells of second page. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/836699893/SpellsGlitch0.fcm
Posted: 2/2/2009 3:47 AM
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Dwedit
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Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 692
Location: Chicago
adelikat wrote:
One thing I was thinking about. The game uses flags in memory to determine if events have occured. For instance, I found the erdrick flag in order to more easily do solo quests. Would it be possible for these corruption glitches to alter those? Like if the flag for deciding to put in the ortega - king hydra fight could be manipulated, it could save a lot of time in a TAS.
Find the flags with a cheat finder. If they're in the 71C-7FF,000-01B range, then they are manipulable with the swamp glitch, depending on if the complimenting high byte is greater than zero.
Posted: 2/2/2009 3:54 AM
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Dwedit
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That was some very impressive manipulation with that bug. Did it take a lot of tries, or any special preparation to get the items, EXP, and return locations glitched properly at the same time?
Posted: 2/2/2009 9:14 AM
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pirohiko
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Dwedit wrote:
That was some very impressive manipulation with that bug. Did it take a lot of tries, or any special preparation to get the items, EXP, and return locations glitched properly at the same time?
I changed formation beforehand at a tower to put 0x01 in 0x00bb. I aim at 0x077C in 0x10*n being provided from 0x0090 and can change it. (An address after the name is small 16 bytes in J) Because 0x0774 was easy to change in Assaram, I performed the change of three items at a time. I was lucky and did not have a hard time.
Posted: 2/2/2009 5:06 PM
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Dwedit
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And 0xE6 is a length counter for the music instruments which constantly ticks down, and doesn't go very far above 0x20. Ingenious!
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