Post by Tompa

Posted: 12/13/2006 6:16 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2224)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1943
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

Hehe, nice it worked out so fine! I hope I will find some more improvements. Let's break the 1 hours mark ;D.

Posted: 12/13/2006 7:45 PM

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spockybiemmichab

Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany

Oh awesome, an even better run of this game. But somehow, I wish you wouldn't provide WIPs. I can't resist to watch them ;)

Posted: 12/13/2006 7:50 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2224)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1943
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

Haha, try to stay off anyway:D. Or els you shall stop posting WIP's anyway, Chef, haha. I check mainly because I want to help out. But of course, I can't say that I don't want to see because it's so awesome!

Posted: 12/14/2006 10:01 AM

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dezbeast

Former player

Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

Just watched your WIP and I'm very impressed. Your movement is much more precise, but there's one thing you may want to fix before you get too far. Right after the Trendy Game, you had the right idea of avoiding the long stretch of grass, but the only problem is having 2 more screen transitions, so in this case your better off just cutting through the grass. I can't wait to see you finish this run.

Posted: 12/14/2006 5:17 PM

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Chef_Stef

Editor, Active player (476)

Joined: 5/23/2006
Posts: 361
Location: Washington, United States

This is why I like (and don't like :) posting WIPs; people can notice my mistakes and let me know before I get too far into the run. Thanks for telling me, it ended up being about a second faster to run through the grass. And, it saved me about 20 extra frames because most of the things I had to manipulate were now accomplished without having to wait at all (I didn't have to wait any frames for the mini bow-wow, for example). I'm currently testing the 1st dungeon. I have determined that it is faster to save and quit after getting the feather. I haven't killed very many enemies up to this point, so it won't mess up the PoP count. And, I have to adjust the count anyway to get a PoP in dungeon 2. Of course I'll also be using the feather to move diagonally. Anything else I've missed? Oh, and whether a key will bounce seems to be dependant on the frame you enter the room. I struggled with a key bounce for a long time before I finally tried entering the room 1 frame later... and I was able to collect the key without it bouncing. So, this is good to know, but it might get annoying in the later dungeons...

Posted: 12/14/2006 5:20 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2224)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1943
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

Remember to jump when you enter a room with a door that is going to shut. You missed that a lot of times in your old run:). And don't forget to avoid the dungeon text at the beginning. Else than that... Hmm, don't think so... Maybe you can try to jump on enemies so you will boost forward? I remember someone mentioned about this, and it's a great idea. Also, are you sure it wouldn't save time of doing a spin attack on the boss? As you proved yourself wrong at the miniboss, maybe it's the same thing on the boss? :)

Posted: 12/14/2006 5:30 PM

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Chef_Stef

Editor, Active player (476)

Joined: 5/23/2006
Posts: 361
Location: Washington, United States

If I have extra hearts, I'll see if I can damage boost in places. As for the spinattack on the boss... I'll investigate it. I think I didn't test it thoroughly in my last run because I would always complete the first dungeon only to have someone point out a mistake from before the dungeon. Also, that boss is difficult to manipulate; I have to keep him at the top of the screen in order to pick up the heart from the best spot, and I have to jump and slash at the right place at the right time. So, I was just sick of that boss in my old run... but I'll be sure to test the possibilities this time around.

Posted: 12/15/2006 11:50 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2224)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1943
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

I think I just have improved your bomb/arrow route:). In dungeon 5, at the skeleton, you could do the L+R glitch to set more than one bomb at a time so you can save an arrow on phase 1 and 4. These two could be used to kill the Key 4 moldorm. Also, when you get the key 6 you are switching to the bracelet as you need it later, then you could lift one of the pots to get an extra arrow. That could save time somewhere, like in dungeon 6... Can't belive I did that stupid mistake. You take a like 5-7 sec way to get a arrow in dungeon 6... It would sure save more time to take that at the south shrine. A new route will come in a while :D. Also, I'm looking through the SDA topic now. There's sure something useful there that we have forgotten... http://speeddemosarchive.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=consoles_older;action=display;num=1148724340;start=60 Have you came any further? EDIT: Was also thinking... The trick with the red tunic, do you know how it "works" and if you could do it in this new run?

Posted: 12/20/2006 8:16 PM

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Chef_Stef

Editor, Active player (476)

Joined: 5/23/2006
Posts: 361
Location: Washington, United States

I haven't been able to work on the run at all because of a big storm in my area last Thursday that caused a widespread power outage. We just got power back at my house today, unfortunately (where I was finally able to post here). It's good to hear that you improved your bomb/arrow route, though.

Posted: 12/21/2006 6:17 PM

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dezbeast

Former player

Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

Chef Stef wrote:

Anything else I've missed?

Missed this part of your reply. From what I've seen, everything else looked perfect.

Posted: 12/30/2006 11:07 PM

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Themattman

Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 35

Question: Since this will be a long video, is there a way to "fast forward" on the replays so I don't have to watch the same scenes 50 times? :o

Posted: 12/30/2006 11:18 PM

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laughing_gas

Former player

Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
Location: boot_camp

Just open the movie in read-only mode and make a savestate, then if you want to continue watching from that point load the movie in read-only mode and then load the savestate, and the movie will start from that point.

Borg Collective wrote:

Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.

Posted: 1/10/2007 11:30 PM

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Themattman

Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 35

Has there been any progress? I've been checking this post 3 times a day and I'm starting to get anxious :$

Posted: 1/12/2007 7:21 AM

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Chef_Stef

Editor, Active player (476)

Joined: 5/23/2006
Posts: 361
Location: Washington, United States

I'm currently studying abroad in Italy, so it's not likely that I can post an update until I come back to the US (about mid-March).

Posted: 1/12/2007 4:32 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2224)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1943
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

Ooh, two months... :( Oh well. Have fun in Italy ;).

Posted: 1/30/2007 11:16 AM

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Chef_Stef

Editor, Active player (476)

Joined: 5/23/2006
Posts: 361
Location: Washington, United States

Surprise! I had a little extra time today, so I completed Dungeon 1. (I thought I would be busier studying abroad, but classes are pretty easy so far.) I can't really promise more updates, though, since it'll depend on my workload here. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/3626/Testrun4.vbm Changes: -S&Q warp after getting the feather (the PoP count isn't really messed up, I think, since I still kill the same four bats at the beginning) -Skipping the 20 rupee chest. This was a difficult choice, since I may slowly lose time getting rupees. I hope I can manage to pick up 16 more rupees before getting to the shop... -Spin attack on the boss (it's faster to spin attack on the second hit), and more optimal position of the heart from manipulation. So, all these improvements total to 24 seconds ahead of the published run by the end of the first dungeon. I tried using the l/r glitches to grab the instrument early, but I coudn't get it to work...

Posted: 1/30/2007 3:02 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2224)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1943
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

Was it slower to press start to skip the dungeon entrance text? I think that's the only thing I'm wondering about. Very nice improvements! Have you tried to damage boost using the feather? Jump over an enemy, and land on it so you'll get boost forward. I've mentioned it before, just in case you had forgotten. Good job!

Posted: 1/30/2007 5:47 PM
(Edited: 1/31/2007 7:54 AM)

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Chef_Stef

Editor, Active player (476)

Joined: 5/23/2006
Posts: 361
Location: Washington, United States

I compared pressing ABStartSelect and just Start, but Start is about 20 frames slower. However, neither is faster than actually seeing the dungeon text. But, it's better to use the Start method if I need to switch items. As for damage boosting, I'll keep that in mind for the future. So, an upcoming improvement is to save the PoP for the second dungeon instead of using it on the Moblin boss. I'll post a WIP once I reach the second dungeon (keeping in mind the other improvements we've listed).

Posted: 1/30/2007 9:57 PM

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Themattman

Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 35

Finally :) I can't wait!

Posted: 1/31/2007 1:13 PM

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Chef_Stef

Editor, Active player (476)

Joined: 5/23/2006
Posts: 361
Location: Washington, United States

New WIP, to dungeon 2: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/3640/Testrun4.vbm 18 seconds ahead of the published run (1095 frames). But, there were some important changes that will come into play later. Changes: -Virtually every diagonal movement is now done by jumping instead of walking (except in a couple of places where it would be slower to jump up and wait to land than to simply walk) -PoP route changed. The Moblin boss battle took an extra cycle by not having the PoP, but the PoP is now set up to drop from the second stalfos in the third room of the second dungeon (quite a mouthful!). The ~6 seconds lost from the boss will easily be made up from faster dungeon movement and boss fights finished more quickly (for instance, the genie boss will take 2 cycles instead of 4). -Another small, but cool, skip; I managed to squeeze past the first swamp flower, so I didn't need Bow-wow to eat it. I was really hopeful that we could skip Bow-wow... but it turns out I can't glitch past the flowers in front of the dungeon entrance. Too bad... -I took the chest in the swamp before going in the dungeon, thus saving several seconds (it'll be more easily compared once I get to the shop). Oh, and there are a few frames lost here and there from grabbing rupees from enemies, although I tried to collect most of them without wasting time. I will need to get eight more rupees in the second dungeon before heading to the shop afterwards. Any improvements that I missed?

Posted: 1/31/2007 1:39 PM

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Xkeeper

Banned User

Joined: 12/23/2004
Posts: 1850

Good job :) I'm guessing you're not dying in this run? (I haven't read the backlog on commentary yet, but your last post and "collecting rupees" seems to confirm my assumption.) I'll watch this later today after I wake up, since it sounds promising.

Perma-banned

Posted: 1/31/2007 1:48 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2224)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1943
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

It looked like it lagged a bit when you slashed the grass in the beginning of the forest. Could it be 1-2 frames if you didn't do that? =) You didn't jump in the "bow wow cave" when the door shut. Is it possible to skip the texts inside the "bow wow cave" with SSAB? I guess you have tried this... Just wanted to be sure. Let the "moblin boss" run in the wall below instead, that's closer. Very nice trick with the first flower, and fast eat manipulation :). That's all I can think of right now. Good job though.

Posted: 1/31/2007 2:22 PM

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Chef_Stef

Editor, Active player (476)

Joined: 5/23/2006
Posts: 361
Location: Washington, United States

You have good eyes, Tompa :) I did stop for a couple of frames before the forest, but that was to manipulate a rupee out of the bush. I also tested SsAB on the texts for a range of frames, and they all failed to stop the texts. Redoing from the moblin cave... I'll edit this post when I'm done. And yes, this is a "no-death" run. A bit slower, but more entertaining, in my opinion. It'll look good to have exactly the right amount of rupees to buy the items in the shop when I get there. Edit: All done. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/3641/Testrun4.vbm This new version is somehow ~200 frames faster than my last WIP... I'm glad you convinced me into redoing, Tompa! Edit 2: Oh, and one more thing. This racks up the total improvements made so far up to 1279 frames (25 seconds) ahead, which almost negates the time lost that will be gained back later. Which means that technically, this newest segment is the same length as in the published movie, even though I have to waste time doing other things in the WIP (as a setup for other time-savers to come). That sounds rather complicated... I hope I worded that correctly.

Posted: 1/31/2007 3:12 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2224)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1943
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

That's more like it Stef! :D You even did the flower part better, neat! Way to go, buddy ;). For dungeon 2: Light the left torch before the right one. When you're pushing the block to get to the miniboss: Push the left one first. After the mini boss, go up-right, instead of right-up. Good luck=).

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