This topic is for the purpose of discussing #2704: Felipe's Genesis Sonic the Hedgehog 2 "Without SpinDash" in 22:29.52

You've come a long way since your earlier submissions for this game; from a technical standpoint this is reasonably solid (in my eyes), and the absence of spindashes (complete absence, unless I someone managed not to see or hear one, despite what the submission text says) gives it a rather different feel (closely paralleling that of the Sonic 1 run) and yet still manages to be fast (it clearly doesn't stop most of the zipping glitches, such as the Metropolis 2 glitch which the standard run sorely needs to have added in!) to the point where I think this is interesting enough to serve as its own branch There were a couple of hiccups I spotted that I wanted to ask about before I cast my vote, though:

• There are a couple of instances where there's a notable gap between two hits on the boss, such as in Emerald Hill and Death Egg, which looks bad. Is it possible to consistently land consecutive hits on those bosses (without spindashing)? If so, why did you not do that?
• If memory serves, the Oil Ocean routes in the current published run doesn't rely overly on spindashes in order to traverse the surface of the oil. Why, then, didn't you use that strategy, which is clearly faster?

Not being a Sonic 2 expert, there may be other possible improvements which I missed, so I'll reserve further opinion until other more experienced eyes than mine have had a chance to look over it. EDIT: By the way, can you upload your screenshot as a .png (which I believe Gens normally outputs anyway; please don't convert it back from the .jpg), or specify the frame number where it was taken? We normally use .pngs for our screenshots.

Voting no because "mainly" without spindash is a stupid choice. Especially since it's "mainly" without it. That's like beating SMB1 "mainly" without using the B button. Either you do it without it, or you don't.

Especially since it's "mainly" without it. That's like beating SMB1 "mainly" without using the B button. Either you do it without it, or you don't.

As I noted, there are no spindashes in the movie - the submission text is just worded badly.

Okay, let's see here... Certainly a lot of new things I hadn't seen before. You've clearly done your research in terms of route planning, since some of these strategies I haven't seen -anywhere- before, never mind in published runs on TASvideos. However: * Did you test the lower route in Aquatic Ruin 2, through the water as in the published run? The existing run does use a spindash on the springboard to get all the way out, but I suspect there are ways around that (there's also a springboard halfway along that path that you could use, while you have the speed from the yellow spring, to get to a higher section and avoid it that way). * In the same level, did you test attacking the boss from the left hand side instead? Given where the boss ends up after 8 hits I think it would be marginally faster starting on the left. * In Oil Ocean 1, did you test finishing the level underneath the oil? After you complete the level this way you have to move off screen otherwise you will lose control and die. * Why do you, in Metropolis 1 move the nut up before glitching through it, and in Metropolis 3 move it down? * On a few levels you look as though you're braking just before the finish line, instead of just after. That could just be my eyes playing tricks on me though. * On the whole I think you jump slightly more than is necessary. I'm pretty sure that jumping on level ground is slower (even against standard running speed). I liked it overall, but given my indecisiveness on the category I'm going to abstain from voting. BTW sgrunt, approximate frame number: 54090

I've share a small amount of the same concerns as others, but otherwise, I've enjoyed it and I voted.

I still don't understand the point of the arbitrary restriction. How about a motivation?

I still don't understand the point of the arbitrary restriction. How about a motivation?

I guess the restriction is to be playing Sonic 2 like the original Sonic 1, which had no spindash.

It's the same motivation as the SMB no-B speedwalk. It's an interesting limitation to play with. Haven't watched the movie yet, but I expect fun times when I sit down with this later on in the evening.

BTW sgrunt, approximate frame number: 54090

You are saying a spin dash happens here? If so, I'd say that disqualifies the movie. Though I would still like this to be an opportunity to get an idea of public opinion about this category idea.

BTW sgrunt, approximate frame number: 54090

You are saying a spin dash happens here? If so, I'd say that disqualifies the movie. Though I would still like this to be an opportunity to get an idea of public opinion about this category idea.

No, I think he was saying a screenshot frame.

BTW sgrunt, approximate frame number: 54090

You are saying a spin dash happens here? If so, I'd say that disqualifies the movie. Though I would still like this to be an opportunity to get an idea of public opinion about this category idea.

mike89 indicated to me on IRC that that was the frame of the screenshot; nothing to do with spindashes. As I said, I saw no spindashes.

The question is, does this restriction make for a more entertaining movie?

The question is, does this restriction make for a more entertaining movie?

I disagree. The question where new branches are concerned is "is this sufficiently different from other runs of the game to be worth publishing in addition to the current movie"? This isn't to say that different runs can't be entertaining - just that comparisons of this sort are really only meaningful when compared to runs this is intended to obsolete.

Well, in my opinnion, the restrictions must add another element of interest (e.g. showing more off the game in 100% runs, getting the fastest completion with another character who lacks some of the moves of a faster one, etc.). I haven't seen this one yet (waiting for an encode), so I can't tell wether this one really is worth publishing.

Personally, I would love to see a more "legit" Sonic 2 run. Being able to actually follow some movements would be kinda cool, but there are times when sonic can roll faster than the screen without the spin dash. All theoretical, though. Have not seen the movie.

I finally watched the run. Much thanks to sgrunt and mike89 for clarifying the intent of the run and explaining some points. I can confirm that no spindashes appeared in the run (the spin sound occurs sometimes as a result of rolling). Comments on the goals: The goals seem reasonable when described as "Sonic 1 style". (I would even propose that as a category name.) Some stages really benefit from seeing more of their scenery without spindashing, especially Mystic Caves. On the other hand, some parts suffer from not having spindash or Tails (the worst case of this is probably the Aquatic Ruin and Metropolis boss fights). Comments on the run quality: The technical quality seems fairly good, especially for a first run with these goals. There's probably more tweaking that can be done, but Sonic games seem to be really hard to optimize, and games like Sonic 1 have undergone many revisions over time. Some of the tricks are also awesome at slow speed: the Metropolis stages were a giant bucket of WTF. All in all, I can see this category being acceptable. I give a weak Yes for this movie, and it would be nice to see some competition for this category of a run for Sonic 2. (However, let's NOT make a "Sonic 1 style" run for Sonic 3, because that game is way too long.)

I had the idea to do this with sonic 3. But it was impossible to do. In Sonic 3 is the obligation to use spindash especially in Hidrocity 2.

terrific vote yes i could enjoy more the game

I also vote yes. The run is a better restriction than the equivalent 'walkaton' for the Mario series. It makes the run feel more personal (like a person was playing) and more Sonic 1-esque. The best zone was Metropolis Zone IMO because it showed enough of the zone and still had some great skips in it. I think it is getting so much guff because it basically has no description, but I would advise anyone to watch the run first before making assumptions. Nice job, Kregorio.

Huge fan of sonic on the genesis, I have to say that this run was fun to watch but it would had been better if you were to do it 100% with all the emerald and not turn into super sonic! I voted Meh because of this! Good run tho!

Youtube anyone ?

I had the idea to do this with sonic 3. But it was impossible to do. In Sonic 3 is the obligation to use spindash especially in Hidrocity 2.

If I have figured correctly, Sonic 3 & Knuckles only requires a single spindash to beat the game (in Hydrocity), but the solution to getting through some later levels without spindash is rather unintuitive and requires a bit of preparation.

I vote yes, but I agree it would have been more fun if he collected the emeralds. We still lack a 100% of Sonic 2. This chance could kill two bird with one stone. Also, ZeXr0, I am working on Youtube. But it will be ready in several hours. Edit: see post below. No more Tube.