Okay, I just watched hero of the day's movie, and I want to know whether people here want me to try and use the left-right glitch to save time in the TAS. In the black and white version, I think a TAS would aim for "no glitches" as part of the requirements (to differentiate from the other movie), but I'm not so sure with the DX version...
I'd rather see it with that glitch. It's not like the owl was very entertaining, anyway. But if you do use left+right, make sure to use its to its fullest potential (which maybe isn't much besides that one situation, although it can be used to become invisible, hit out-of-reach enemies with the sword or shield, or make the spin attack go all over the screen).
On the DX version, the no glitch specifier is not required, because nintendo fixed the warping glitch used in the current TAS. This, IMO, is then better than a no-glitch run of the original, both because of the color, and because it avoids the enevitable "bug vs. feature" argument that would arise as soon as someone discovers something which might or might not be considered a glitch.
Joined: 5/23/2006
Posts: 361
Location: Washington, United States
Okay, here's the newest version up to the beginning of Tail cave:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1362/Testrun3.vbm
I spent a lot of time extensively testing whether bumping off enemies was faster or not. In general it was faster, but other times the increased speed from bumping wasn't enough to offset the frames lost by turning around to bump the enemy. For example, I tried for an hour and couldn't find a way to bump off the octorok that saved time (the one that Maur bumps on his route). My "best" bump was ~3 frames slower than just walking, and getting hurt and boosting off the enemy was still a frame slower. Oh well...
Testrun 2 entered the Tail Cave at frame 20606. The newest version enters at frame 19406 (1200 frames = 20 seconds faster!) Most of the time saved came from skipping the first owl speech (via left/right glitch) and more precise movement (almost no bumping into walls in this version). I would appreciate it if anybody could tell me where else to use the left/right to pick up items and other things... like if it's possible to pick up an instrument without running up the stairs.
Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany
Yeah, I liked it, too.
But remember that you can collect a falling key like this.
I'm saying this because in your 2nd testrun you let the key bounce once to the ground which is a time waster I think.
Joined: 5/23/2006
Posts: 361
Location: Washington, United States
Latest version, through dungeon 1:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1371/Through%201st%20dungeon.vbm
I still hate the bosses, they're a pain to optimize... but this run is now 1342 frames faster than the previous version (142 gained in the dungeon = 2.3 seconds). Again, everyone, thanks for the help so far.
Next stop is trading for the bananas... then the Moblin's cave.
Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany
The file you uploaded seems to be your "old" Testrun2. No owl-skip, no shield-bumping plus exactly the same frame- and rerecord-counter.
Wah, wanna see the new stuff!
Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany
Very, very nice.
Just one thing: In the "long" room before the feather you go up some pixels and short after you go down again. Any reason? Actually I don't care about that...
And did you check if it's possible to collect the instument like you collected the sword?
Anyway, if you keep up this quality this will be one of my favourite runs!
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1941
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
Very nice yes! Good that you are using the Key Trick now, hehe. Looks better:D. Just one little question... Isn't it faster to do a charged sword on the mini boss? As you can easy charge before him without losing time...
Joined: 5/23/2006
Posts: 361
Location: Washington, United States
spockybiemmichab wrote:
Very, very nice.
Just one thing: In the "long" room before the feather you go up some pixels and short after you go down again. Any reason? Actually I don't care about that...
I didn't see any places where I specifically moved down, but maybe you're referring to one of two places. If you're referring to the diagonal block room with the mini-blobs, I hesitate to manipulate the blob slightly downward (otherwise he'll jump into me when I pass by). If you're referring to the part where I go around the (I guess) "slicer" pieces trap, I need to go around, otherwise the trap will kill me in one hit. I just looked at this, by the way, and the difference in life levels (between this run and previous runs) is the result of me mysteriously gaining health at the chest with the tail key.
spockybiemmichab wrote:
And did you check if it's possible to collect the instument like you collected the sword?
I tried several positions with left-right and couldn't pick it up. I also couldn't pick up the heart from the boss with left-right even when the spacing and locations were exactly the same as when I picked up the sword. I don't really understand the glitch very well...
By the way, I redid the boss battles with a spin attack at the beginning of each of them. However, I somehow collected the instrument on the exact same frame, which means that the two routes were equal for me. And no, I'm not comparing two copies of the same run. Either the time saved from using the spin attack is offset by the difficulty in setting up a position, or it's faster on the miniboss and slower on the boss. Anyway, this whole deal is rather confusing :)
Joined: 5/23/2006
Posts: 361
Location: Washington, United States
Latest version up to 2nd dungeon:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1380/To%202nd%20dungeon.vbm
I was very happy to get a piece of power in the moblin's cave, I had just been killing as many enemies as I could reach in the forest, and it worked out perfectly; even the position of the piece was almost perfect.
Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany
Chef Stef wrote:
spockybiemmichab wrote:
Very, very nice.
Just one thing: In the "long" room before the feather you go up some pixels and short after you go down again. Any reason? Actually I don't care about that...
If you're referring to the diagonal block room with the mini-blobs, I hesitate to manipulate the blob slightly downward (otherwise he'll jump into me when I pass by).
Ok, thanks for explanation.
Very nice update. I was impressed by nearly every single jump. :) The PoP was really good. But did you consider that it could save more time in the "open field" or if you get it right at the beginning of dungeon 2? But maybe I underestimate the time gained by fighting the moblin boss this way...
Anyway, keep up this kind of quality!
Joined: 5/23/2006
Posts: 361
Location: Washington, United States
spockybiemmichab wrote:
Ok, thanks for explanation.
Very nice update. I was impressed by nearly every single jump. :) The PoP was really good. But did you consider that it could save more time in the "open field" or if you get it right at the beginning of dungeon 2? But maybe I underestimate the time gained by fighting the moblin boss this way...
Anyway, keep up this kind of quality!
Well, not getting the piece of power means the boss charges a second time, more than doubling the length of the battle. I would estimate that 6-7 seconds are saved taking the PoP in the moblin's cave. It would be very difficult to get the PoP before the cave (I would have to kill at least 8-10 different enemies for it to make a difference), and I'm not sure that taking it after would make up the 6-7 seconds. But thanks for the feedback!
Edit: And by the way, spin-attacking the Tail Cave miniboss for the first hit, but regular-slashing the boss for the first hit, saved 16 frames. Evidently, spin-attacking the boss takes too long to set up for the time gained.
Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany
I think you're right. In dungeon 2 you would get a PoP at the ealiest by killing the skelletons in the 3rd room and then it would last only until you go downstairs for the 1st time which is quite soon (6 rooms later I think). So now I'm quite convinced that you made the right decision :)
hm yeah it looks awesome.. played the game about 10 times but..
what the heck are you doing to the poor link ?;) he swimming in the gamble room, hes vanishing for 50% in the second temple .. oh my weird things
Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany
Very nice again :)
I just re-watched the LA-speedrun (not DX) from SDA and recognized that the runner skipped some more texts (e.g. the moblin boss' and the crocodile's text) by pressing A+B+Start+Select. I tried it several times, but didn't succeed. Is it really not possible with the DX version or is it just bad timing by myself?
Joined: 5/23/2006
Posts: 361
Location: Washington, United States
It might be possible with the moblin boss... are you referring to the crocodile you get the bananas from? I tested ABSs on the trading sequence items, and what tends to happen is that Link goes into a "can't do ABSs" state for the entire time... It's sort of like how you can't skip the sword text, when picking up the sword from the beach, and even have to wait for the music before you can ABSs your way out. I didn't test this thoroughly, though, so maybe time could be saved in other places...
Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany
Maybe you have a look at the run. (if you haven't done this already)
He couldn't skip the sword text, but all trading texts and even the gambling-guy text.
I don't care about time savers like this because I'm focussing on how the dungeons are solved (and you're doing a great job), but if you're aiming for perfection and it's possible in DX...
Maybe Tompa or Maur know more about this...
Joined: 5/23/2006
Posts: 361
Location: Washington, United States
I think you're talking about text skipping. In the original version, you can press B to skip some texts. I also tested ABSs on every frame possible when picking up trading sequence items, and the text box still came up as usual in the DX version. So it seems that only text boxes from chests can be skipped via ABSs in the DX version. But it's good that you're bringing possible time savers like this up.
Joined: 5/23/2006
Posts: 361
Location: Washington, United States
Here's the newest version up to dungeon 3:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1399/To%203rd%20Dungeon.vbm
I found a glitch (not in the video); if you dig up the slime key and jump over it so that it follows you to the next overworld screen, you'll collect it, but the "collected a golden leaf" text will come up instead of the slime key text. The text would have been the same length in either case, so I was considering leaving it in, but the slime key you "pick up" in this manner doesn't work, even though it shows up in your inventory as the slime key :(
Oh well, enjoy the progress on the run!
Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany
Chef Stef wrote:
I found a glitch (not in the video); if you dig up the slime key and jump over it so that it follows you to the next overworld screen, you'll collect it, but the "collected a golden leaf" text will come up instead of the slime key text. The text would have been the same length in either case, so I was considering leaving it in, but the slime key you "pick up" in this manner doesn't work, even though it shows up in your inventory as the slime key :(
That would be a nice gimmick :)
Ok, some feedback:
1. You don't have to enter the warphole. It's enough if you see it.
2. Is hitting the (poor) dogs part of the PoP-route? Because otherwise I would consider to also lift the bush after the stone with the power bracelett when entering the village from the east so you don't have to switch your items that often. (the same on your way out)
3. Your way through the "maze" is just awesome. :)
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
Chef Stef wrote:
Here's the newest version up to dungeon 3
The movie works up to the point where you grab the sword and the owl speaks to you, but afterward, Link walks all over the place, getting hit by enemies and so on. What do I do to correct that?
The movie works up to the point where you grab the sword and the owl speaks to you, but afterward, Link walks all over the place, getting hit by enemies and so on. What do I do to correct that?
Make sure you're using version 1.0 of the ROM, not 1.1, and make sure you're using the newest version of VBA from these forums.
