Watched these two tases and thought they were both top tier in entertainment and technical aspects. Recommending to stars.
Submission #6154: fmp & Yuzuhara_3's SNES The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past "full inventory" in 52:52.44
http://tasvideos.org/3874M.html
and
SNES Super Metroid (JPN/USA) "100%" in 1:01:47.03 by Sniq.
http://tasvideos.org/4010M.html
---
Also Arc I think you exaggerate. One example of a run that you don't think deserves a star does not mean a total re-evaluation is necessary. If 5-10% of stars were bad then it would be different story.
While I don't agree with Arc's note on "credibility", arguably Coca Cola Kid has low enough ratings that it should be moved back to moon tier. There's plenty of other (and higher-rated) movies of the Sonic Game Engine in star tier, already.
Note that starred runs are supposed to be representative of what's so cool about TASing, not necessarily just a list of highest-rated runs. Most often those two things coincide, but that doesn't necessarily have to be so. (In other words, just because a starred run may have a bit lower ratings doesn't automatically mean it should lose its star.)
Watched these two tases and thought they were both top tier in entertainment and technical aspects. Recommending to stars.
Submission #6154: fmp & Yuzuhara_3's SNES The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past "full inventory" in 52:52.44
http://tasvideos.org/3874M.html
and
SNES Super Metroid (JPN/USA) "100%" in 1:01:47.03 by Sniq.
http://tasvideos.org/4010M.html
We already have 5 starred TASes of the Zelda francise and 3 of the Metroid franchise.
Watched these two tases and thought they were both top tier in entertainment and technical aspects. Recommending to stars.
Submission #6154: fmp & Yuzuhara_3's SNES The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past "full inventory" in 52:52.44
http://tasvideos.org/3874M.html
and
SNES Super Metroid (JPN/USA) "100%" in 1:01:47.03 by Sniq.
http://tasvideos.org/4010M.html
We already have 5 starred TASes of the Zelda francise and 3 of the Metroid franchise.
We could absolutely potentially replace the existing ALTTP star with the suggested movie if people desire it
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Memory wrote:
We could absolutely potentially replace the existing ALTTP star with the suggested movie if people desire it
I don't understand Zelda at all, but the new run is, well, new, and it's rating is way higher. Does it actually look better than the 10-year-old old movie?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Also Arc I think you exaggerate. One example of a run that you don't think deserves a star does not mean a total re-evaluation is necessary. If 5-10% of stars were bad then it would be different story.
That's the way it is though. I would say that 10-15% of the current Stars are unworthy of the tier. Coca-Cola Kid is one of the worst Stars. It's a fine movie but there's no way that it has the special qualities that distinguish a Star from the other 95% of movies on the site.
feos wrote:
7. Read.
I read it; in fact that "judgment" is the reason I posted. It was ridiculous. We're talking about Super Metroid—arguably the single most iconic game in the world of speedrunning. The new movie was a 'notable improvement' over the previous movie. The previous movie was Starred and had a 9.3 rating. The new movie was also compared to the so-called 'problematic' any% movie, which is Starred and recommended for newcomers with a 9.2 rating. There was, in reality, no doubt about approximately what rating the new movie would get, and it currently stands at 9.4. There never was any issue to discuss; the new movie is one of the most Star-worthy movies on the entire site. It has been held hostage in the Moons tier for the last 3 weeks and no one called it out. The current system of establishing Stars is flawed, and so I proposed an alternative way to establish Stars.
Good luck getting all the authors for them to be in favor for that.
“Arc” wrote:
2. Establish a Council of Starmen (minimum 3 members).
So what happens if one of them disagrees with a nomination for stars? Does it not get starred then? If 2 people agreed for a star and one dissaproved, and that still counts as a star, then it seems like an ineffective system if a movie barely makes it into stars.
“arc” wrote:
3. Have the Council decide an initial 100 movies to promote to Stars.
So no audience suggestions anymore? What’s the point of stars if audiences cant suggest?
“arc” wrote:
4. Promote those 100 movies to Stars.
What if the council disagrees on 30 or even 50 of them?
“arc” wrote:
5. Dissolve the Council.
Why? Why not have the council stick around and decide on future suggestions for movies instead of having just one star man? That would make more sense.
“arc wrote:
6. All subsequent promotions to Stars are nominated and decided as part of the Awards every January.
So 1, that would mean waiting a year just for one star to be decided, which is way too long to wait. 3, would it be starred movies for that specific year or in general? If it’s in general then why would you need to wait a year to do it? 3, what would happen if Super Metroid didn’t win one of them? Would you be willing to wait another year for another chance?
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Arc wrote:
feos wrote:
7. Read.
I read it; in fact that "judgment" is the reason I posted. It was ridiculous. We're talking about Super Metroid—arguably the single most iconic game in the world of speedrunning. The new movie was a 'notable improvement' over the previous movie. The previous movie was Starred and had a 9.3 rating. The new movie was also compared to the so-called 'problematic' any% movie, which is Starred and recommended for newcomers with a 9.2 rating. There was, in reality, no doubt about approximately what rating the new movie would get, and it currently stands at 9.4. There never was any issue to discuss; the new movie is one of the most Star-worthy movies on the entire site. It has been held hostage in the Moons tier for the last 3 weeks and no one called it out. The current system of establishing Stars is flawed, and so I proposed an alternative way to establish Stars.
You probably missed this thread and got so confused as a result. People there suggested that the new 100% run does have issues to discuss. And since entertainment is a subjective thing, accounting for people's subjective impression is an important part of the job when you want to promote the most entertaining movies to users. If one can't afford accounting for user feedback, one doesn't get to tell people what to do or what to watch.
You also seem to consider your suggestions absolutely perfect, judging by all the arrogance surrounding them. If they actually had all the merits implied, they'd be convincing to the majority of people, and the high-horse attitude wouldn't be required.
Arc wrote:
Coca-Cola Kid is one of the worst Stars. It's a fine movie but there's no way that it has the special qualities that distinguish a Star from the other 95% of movies on the site.
2 users out of 16 gave it really low rating around 3. 3 users rated between 6 and 6.5. 11 users rated it between 7 and 8.6. It means most people consider this run pretty decent, mostly good looking. It's also one of the best GG runs, and it was the best one before GG Mega Man was published. It stands a bit worse compared to the best SMS movies. In pace it's comparable to SMS Lord of the Sword, but overall it's less complex I would say. Other good SMS movies are more complex, but slower paced.
I'm not particularly amazed by Coca-Cola Kid, and if people want its star to be moved we can do it. But I disagree that it should be just dropped.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
So what happens if one of them disagrees with a nomination for stars? (etc)
Don't pretend that this idea is completely alien. It's the exact same process that the NCAA selection committee goes through every March. They have to put 68 teams in the tournament. Some choices are obvious. Some choices about teams on 'the bubble' stir a lot of debate and emotion. But in the end they settle on 68 teams. Likewise, after discussion, analytics, and feedback, the Star Council would eventually settle on the initial 100 Stars. After the Star Council completes this task, it's no longer needed.
EZGames69 wrote:
that would mean waiting a year just for one star to be decided, which is way too long to wait. 3, would it be starred movies for that specific year or in general? If it’s in general then why would you need to wait a year to do it?
I didn't propose adding only one new Star per year. You shouldn't have presumed that. The Pro Football Hall of Fame typically inducts 5 (non-senior) candidates each year, and that seems like a good number. Have an initial nomination poll that advances the top 5 candidates for the year. And then imagine 'Poll 1 - Should Movie A be promoted to Stars?'; 'Poll 2 - Should Movie B be promoted to Stars?'; etc. up to Poll 5 on the Awards board each year. Typically it would be movies that were made that year that get nominated, but there is nothing stopping older movies from nomination. Especially in the first year after the initial 100 are created, because people will inevitably feel that a few movies got snubbed.
feos wrote:
Coca-Cola Kid is an affirmative-action Star. It was included for "console diversity." But since it's a weak version of Sonic (which has 8 Starred games), it hinders real diversity, i.e., diversity of creative ideas. In my very humble opinion, it shouldn't be a Star if all it has to offer is that it looks similar to handheld Sonic games.
So what happens if one of them disagrees with a nomination for stars? (etc)
Don't pretend that this idea is completely alien. It's the exact same process that the NCAA selection committee goes through every March.
You’re forgetting the fact that a tournament would mean getting to choose one winner, not winners. TASing shouldnt even be a competition.
“Arc” wrote:
EZGames69 wrote:
that would mean waiting a year just for one star to be decided, which is way too long to wait. 3, would it be starred movies for that specific year or in general? If it’s in general then why would you need to wait a year to do it?
I didn't propose adding only one new Star per year.
Even if it’s 2 stars per year, 5 or 6, the idea of waiting a year to nominate stars make no sense and would just be completely tedious for everyone. Why is it so bad to suggest movies right away? It’s quick and easy to suggest them, but instead of doing that for SM, you complain about the system not being fair, when in reality it’s alot more flexible than you’d think. Look how easily feos changed SM to stars, it’s as simple as saying “hey, this movie is pretty good it should be in stars”.
Coming up with a bullshit system that actually makes nominations movies harder and difficult is dumb.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
I'd prefer an SMS game, also I'd prefer not Sonic.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
You’re forgetting the fact that a tournament would mean getting to choose one winner, not winners. TASing shouldnt even be a competition.
I didn't suggest holding a TAS tournament. I compared the hypothetical Star Council's selection process of 100 Stars to the process that goes into the NCAA's selection process of the 68 tournament teams.
EZGames69 wrote:
“hey, this movie is pretty good it should be in stars”.
Stars are prestigious, not just "pretty good." There are 2138 published movies currently. Most people have seen only a small fraction of them. They want certain movies they've seen to be Stars, but they overlook all the movies that they haven't seen. I'd think that being the only person who has seen every movie would give me some credibility. The selection of Stars needs to take a holistic approach. There are many, many older movies worthy of at least being nominated.
feos wrote:
I'd prefer an SMS game, also I'd prefer not Sonic.
You’re forgetting the fact that a tournament would mean getting to choose one winner, not winners. TASing shouldnt even be a competition.
I didn't suggest holding a TAS tournament.
Excuse me? Did you even remember what you wrote? “6. All subsequent promotions to Stars are nominated and decided as part of the Awards every January.”. This sounds exactly like a “tournament.”“Arc” wrote:
EZGames69 wrote:
“hey, this movie is pretty good it should be in stars”.
Stars are prestigious, not just "pretty good." There are 2138 published movies currently. Most people have seen only a small fraction of them. They want certain movies they've seen to be Stars, but they overlook all the movies that they haven't seen. I'd think that being the only person who has seen every movie would give me some credibility. The selection of Stars needs to take a holistic approach. There are many, many older movies worthy of at least being nominated.
Your credibility was lost after you insulted starman and attempted to suggest your own movies should go into stars. If you want to be taken seriously again, stop being an asshole to everyone.
“arc” wrote:
feos wrote:
I'd prefer an SMS game, also I'd prefer not Sonic.
Im sorry what? You were going off about how Coca Cola shouldnt be in stars because it has a low rating, but you’re ok with suggesting this movie, which only has 0.3 difference in entertainment? Is the bar for you when a movie is at 7.5 for entertainment? Im sorry but that’s insane.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
You’re forgetting the fact that a tournament would mean getting to choose one winner, not winners. TASing shouldnt even be a competition.
I didn't suggest holding a TAS tournament.
Excuse me? Did you even remember what you wrote? “6. All subsequent promotions to Stars are nominated and decided as part of the Awards every January.”. This sounds exactly like a “tournament.”
I honestly cannot see where you are getting that from. It sounds to me more like a voting process by the public, not any sort of tournament or competition.
So a tournament that is based on public voting?
My point is, we shouldn’t treat stars as if it’s a competition which one gets stars.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Your credibility was lost after you insulted starman
I was arguing that the Starman should have more independent authority, which was a defense of the role.
EZGames69 wrote:
and attempted to suggest your own movies should go into stars.
It doesn't make sense to reject a movie's Star-worthiness based on who nominated it. But I didn't do that anyway. I listed a bunch of movies that have high entertainment ratings. It's an objective fact that some of my movies have high entertainment ratings. I said in the post, "I wouldn't star all of these." It wasn't a Star nomination post.
EZGames69 wrote:
If you want to be taken seriously again, stop being an asshole to everyone.
I write in a simple and direct way, but people often wildly misinterpret what I mean.
EZGames69 wrote:
You were going off about how Coca Cola shouldnt be in stars because it has a low rating, but you’re ok with suggesting this movie
Look at the options that fit the criteria of SMS, not already Starred, and not Sonic. The only possibilities are Golden Axe Warrior or Mickey Mouse.
EZGames69 wrote:
My point is, we shouldn’t treat stars as if it’s a competition which one gets stars.
This doesn't make sense. If there is a very limited number of Stars (true—only 112 out of 2138 movies have a Star), then there is intense competition between movies to get Starred. And there are about 300 movies that are good enough to get legitimate consideration for a Star. The main point that I've been raising is that I believe that only the very best 100-110 of those 300 should be Starred.
There are 2138 published movies currently. Most people have seen only a small fraction of them. They want certain movies they've seen to be Stars, but they overlook all the movies that they haven't seen. I'd think that being the only person who has seen every movie would give me some credibility. The selection of Stars needs to take a holistic approach. There are many, many older movies worthy of at least being nominated.
Wait a minute... you've seen all 2138 published TASes on the website? 0_o
That's pretty impressive. With regards to extremely long RPG TASes, do you basically dedicate a 5 hour timeblock to watch them, or do you watch it in pieces over time?
Also, in your subjective opinion, which TAS stands out as having the least entertainment value of any TAS on the website?
I'd be curious if some other old veteran of the site who joined in 2004 has also seen every currently published TAS on the site, though I suppose there's no way I can get a definitive answer to that question...
Wait a minute... you've seen all 2138 published TASes on the website? 0_o
That's pretty impressive. With regards to extremely long RPG TASes, do you basically dedicate a 5 hour timeblock to watch them, or do you watch it in pieces over time?
Also, in your subjective opinion, which TAS stands out as having the least entertainment value of any TAS on the website?
I'd be curious if some other old veteran of the site who joined in 2004 has also seen every currently published TAS on the site, though I suppose there's no way I can get a definitive answer to that question...
Thank you. In 2017, I set a goal to watch all of the movies that I hadn't seen yet. On the day that I started, I had seen 553 out of 1841. Over the next 425 days, I rated 1463 movies (3.44 movies per day) to reach 100%. I've maintained 100% since then. I enjoyed the RPGs, but I didn't watch them straight through. I watched in 20-30 minute blocks, 3-4 times per day.
[3673] PSX Discworld II: Mortality Bytes! by Flip in 39:11.17 got a 0.0 entertainment rating from me. It's mostly lag and load screens.
Check the movie rating list page. You can see the top-50 raters and all of your rating details. Current top 5:
1: Arc (100%)
2: adelikat (64%)
3: Mothrayas (63%)
4: coconou (44%)
5: Memory (43%)
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
It's not a bad movie, but I found it quite long for the moderate variety it has.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
It's not a bad movie, but I found it quite long for the moderate variety it has.
I agree with this tbh. There’s nothing about it that strikes me as super entertaining or super impressive.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
I agree with this tbh. There’s nothing about it that strikes me as super entertaining or super impressive.
There's nothing "super entertaining" about Cola Kid, either.
I'm not sure why we insist on having exactly one SMS game starred, but if there must be one, Golden Axe Warrior strikes me as the better pick.
