I discovered the technique for copying the shutter.
http://www.yuko2ch.net/rockman/gate_copy_ok.avi
Too slow, but funny
1:The egg is erased outside the screen.
2:Because the object of the egg disappeared, another object is copied onto the position of the egg.
(The shutter is copied at this time)
3:The shutter is prevented from falling by F of 2nd.
(Because the shutter is changed into another object when the shutter falls)
4:MegaMan touched the shutter. :p
http://www.yuko2ch.net/rockman/birdgate.avi
When the shutter falls, MegaMan is damaged from the unknown object.
Mr. FinalFighter these ones are pretty funny. We really should to destroy the whole game and let it feel the wrath of ours ;) I wonder what CAPCOM would say if they were seeing our run and your stuff.
I discovered the technique for copying the shutter.
http://www.yuko2ch.net/rockman/gate_copy_ok.avi
Too slow, but funny
1:The egg is erased outside the screen.
2:Because the object of the egg disappeared, another object is copied onto the position of the egg.
(The shutter is copied at this time)
3:The shutter is prevented from falling by F of 2nd.
(Because the shutter is changed into another object when the shutter falls)
4:MegaMan touched the shutter. :p
http://www.yuko2ch.net/rockman/birdgate.avi
When the shutter falls, MegaMan is damaged from the unknown object.
Mr. FinalFighter these ones are pretty funny. We really should to destroy the whole game and let it feel the wrath of ours ;) I wonder what CAPCOM would say if they were seeing our run and your stuff.
Try and make an un-breakable Mega Man 10 that we'll end up breaking anyway?
Finalfighter, that was pretty good. If there was a "Person who can break MM2/R2 the most" award, it'd be you, I bet.
See Youtube page (GIRfanaticTAS) for all runs and stuff.
Mr. FinalFighter these ones are pretty funny. We really should to destroy the whole game and let it feel the wrath of ours ;)
Hasn't that been done the last couple of TASes anyway? :p
Even Rockman 2 have been punished few times in the past by it's crimes and the game have seen the bright light (in this case "death") and met a dimensional time warp punishment that teared it apart... but still Rockman 2 haven't seen end of the universe!
I got something in to my mind from that bird copy movie. If I remember right wasn't there some hacks of Rockman 2 and they glitched near of the gates and showed extra sprite(s)? I don't know are they grabbable objects or anything, just wondering. If I remember correctly this was happening in Rockman no Constancy.
Here's an idea for a fast run.
Probably start at Bubble Man and get the Bubble Lead and then do whichever stage then do the glitch during the boss fight to take you to Wily Stage 6 but do it on your last life and you can probably beat it afterward. A warped speed run I would say.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
What glitch are you talking about?
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
I think he's talking about the one where you use item 1 or 3 during the boss fight then you rub up against the gate and it will take you to one of the Wily stages.
Here's an idea for a fast run.
Probably start at Bubble Man and get the Bubble Lead and then do whichever stage then do the glitch during the boss fight to take you to Wily Stage 6 but do it on your last life and you can probably beat it afterward. A warped speed run I would say.
This doesn't work. Even though you enter the 'glitchy' wily 6, your still in flashman's stage. So, lets say it were possible to get wily alien to spawn, killing him would only = killing flashman. Dying in wily 6 will not warp you to the real wily 6.
@mega man 3: Yes this is right, but it is not limited to the item 1/3. The key is causing delay in order to get the shutter tech to work. You could do it with a number of different weapons, and to be honest I don't think the item 3 would be very effective.
edit: here's an example: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/79262555/flashshutter3.fcm
Is there any chance that getting out of the room while the boss is loaded could lead to a method of performing a 1 hit kill on the boss, as was done with the dragon?
I'm considering doing a glitch-free run of Mega Man 2, but I need to check a few things and a little discussion about it would be helpful.
The most important question is would this be interesting to players? Mega Man 2 loses some action and eye candy without all the zipping and odd quirks, so the movie will be longer and the pace won't be quite the same speed, but I'd compare this to the runs of Mega Man 3 through 6, since they are all low on glitches (compared to Mega Man 2) and still are very interesting to watch. Thoughts?
Another important topic to consider is what "glitchless" means. The obvious glitches that come to mind are zipping, skipping most of Wood Man's stage, fighting Bubble Man from the ceiling, skipping the Mecha Dragon, and many others. While I can't think of any glitches that are really "debatable", should something come up, it might need to be discussed to decide whether it counts or not.
Lastly, the route. A lot of the current route is based on how zipping works. Without it, I'm thinking of this route:
Metal-Flash-Bubble-Heat-Wood-Air-Crash-Quick
The thing is though, that the Items can still help a lot in speeding through parts of the levels. I can't really see Item 3 significantly helping Metal Man's stage at all, so I have Metal-Flash. Bubble Man's stage shouldn't be much faster at all with Items, but Heat Man's stage could be significantly faster if Air is beaten beforehand. The boss fight against Air Man wouldn't be much slower if using Mega Buster, and Item 2 could help save some time in various stages.
Here's an alternative route:
Air-Heat-Metal-Flash-Bubble-(some order of the last three with Crash before Quick)
Basically, it's Items throughout the stages vs having boss weaknesses. I'm thinking that the second route would be faster, but I'm not entirely sure.
I'll start this run soon if there is enough interest and I become certain about route planning.
What what what? Starting with Metal? Any reason why?
Me, Shinryuu and Seth Glass actually started a mm2 glitchless tas once. We came up with a solid boss order but I can't remember it right now.
My best guess for the boss order would be: Flash - Quick - Bubble - Heat - Air - Metal - Wood - Clash.
Reasons why the above route should be optimal:
* Flash and Quick stages don't need any weapons at all. It's fastest to walk through with Buster only.
* I believe we tested it to be faster to kill Heatman with Lead Bubble, even if we have to kill Bubbleman with Quickman's weapon. Doing Metal before Bubble would be slower due to lack of Item2.
* Killing Clash before Quick is slower because it messes up the boss order.
We did a lot of tests compared to Richard Ureta's run, and actually a lot of stuff he did with item2 to save time (for example in Flash man stage) came up being slower than just normally walking through the level, not changing weapons. So a glitchless run is going to be very minimalistic. Still, me and possibly many others would like to see it being done.
So after talking with Bablo, I'm almost certainly going to go with:
Flash-Quick-Bubble-Heat-Air-Metal-Wood-Crash
A few tricks that could be considered glitches though.
1) Using the Air Shooter to break through Wood Man's shield.
2) Resetting acceleration and speed by pausing.
3) Moving backwards to make some enemies disappear.
4) Up+Down on ladders.
5) Dying so your Y-axis position is higher against bosses.
I would say that:
* A properly-coded Leaf Shield wouldn't be penetrable by Air Shooter, so that's a glitch.
* Resetting speed/acceleration by pausing had to be specifically added in by the programmers, so it's not a glitch.
* Properly-coded enemy spawn logic would prevent making enemies disappear (c.f. Ninja Gaiden), so that's a glitch.
* Up and Down aren't meant to be pressed simultaneously on an NES controller (it's possible, without breaking the controller, but it's not expected), so that's a glitch.
* Dying at the end of a stage is probably a glitch, just because it goes into territory that isn't expected.
But these are just my opinions, of course.
One question: what if we ignored frames from pausing to switch weapons? One of the things that's always bugged me about the Mega Man series (as opposed to the X series) is that we don't get to see the different weapons get used much because it takes so long to switch to them. I'd be interested in seeing a run where this limitation was removed, ideally by some kind of quick-switch functionality. I know someone was working on a Lua script to do that, though I don't know if it was completed. Of course such a run wouldn't be submittable here because it changes the game.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Do it Megaman 9 style :P And Make a lua script to count the time from the beggining of the level to the end of ht eboss fight :P And don't count the time in the menu :P
I must say, I'd be much more interested in a run that didn't count weapon switch time than a glitchless run. That said, I'll watch any megaman run someone puts together.
Do not try to bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth.
What Truth?
There is nospoon. Then you will see it is not the spoon that changes, it is only yourself
Is there any chance that getting out of the room while the boss is loaded could lead to a method of performing a 1 hit kill on the boss, as was done with the dragon?
Sorry for the late answer. It seems it's not possible and before you enter to Mecha dragon's fight, earlier screen has animated screen which is advantage to go to next screen where that boss lies when mixed with downscrolling.
In this game rooms and stages are build to be linked to each other. When you abuse shutter in the boss fight you move to the "leftover" area and your stage data remains same. These discoveries are rather old and it seems they lags information in this thread.
here is an idea for mm2.
instead of killing the little orange guy by the double ladders use heatman's weapon at the beginning of crashmans stage.
of course it would require you to succeed in the screen scrolling with the air shooter as opposed to the 3 item 1 that are used.
this is added on to mr. shinryuu and finalfighters latest movie at the beginning of the crash man stage.
perhaps it is too slow. (but this movie is not optimized)
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1069903576/shinryuu%2Cpirohiko%2Cfinalfighter-rockman2.fm2
another little trick. minimize the getting hit animation by using charged heatmans weapon.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/912882874/heatmanbug.fm2
>Mr.aglasscage.
I know those examples in around 2008.
http://www.yuko2ch.net/rockman/hc.htm
But, I decided to consider DelayDownScroll again when saving item1.
I calculated Delay(instructions).
Enemy x 0
NMI = 1123
MAIN = 3765
TOTAL = 4888
Enemy x 2
NMI = 1123
MAIN = 6078 (+2313) Enemy =+1000
TOTAL = 7201
Enemy x 2 + item1 x 1
NMI = 1123
MAIN = 6588 (+510) Item1=+500
TOTAL = 7711
Enemy x 2 + item1 x 2
NMI = 1123
MAIN = 7076 (+998) Item1=+480
TOTAL = 8199
Enemy x 2 + item1 x 2 + JustScroll
NMI = 1123
MAIN = 7313 (+1235) JustScroll=+300
TOTAL = 8436
Enemy x 2
NMI = 1123
MAIN = 6078
TOTAL = 7201
Enemy x 2 + AirShooter + UsuallyNMIFrame
NMI = 1123
MAIN = 6850 (+772) AirShooter=+750
TOTAL = 7973
Enemy x 2 + AirShooter + MiddleNMIFrame(lot)
NMI = 1340 (+217)
MAIN = 6838
TOTAL = 8178
Enemy x 2 + AirShooter + LargeNMIFrame(less)
NMI = 1593 (+470)
MAIN = 6858
TOTAL = 8451
Enemy x 2 + AirShooter + LargestNMIFrame(very rare)
NMI = 2044 (+921)
MAIN = 6848
TOTAL = 8892
DelayDownScroll demands
TOTAL = 8950-8970
This result shows that there is timing in which the DeLayDownScroll succeeds in AirShooter.
However, the frame with very big NMI comes only to very rare.
The timing of NMI(frame) is moved by switching the arm.
However, the number of frames that stands by should be not long.
We only pray that the frame of fortunately big NMI come. :P
OurTAS
28196frame
NMI =1664(NMI1095 + Sounds)
MAIN =7302(Enemy + Item1 x 2)
TOTAL=8966
28172f NMI = 1723->This frame seems to be good.
28196f NMI = 1095->Our DelayDownScroll
28208f NMI = 1955->This frame seems to be very good!
28556f NMI = 1723
28592f NMI = 2028->very big but too slow.
1:Item 1 is saved.
2:The Arm switch time(Item1->AirShooter) is 40 frames.
3:28208-28196f=12frame
4:Then, we should be about 28 frames faster because of the saving of item1.
It can be said that there is a possibility of the success in the air shooter if we can save more than 30 frames
because of the saving of item1 or item1 x 2 is used in the different location.
This result of the survey,I think that DelayDownScroll of AirShooter is possible! :)
here is another idea in crashman's stage.
at the end of this movie you use another down scroll ( to the half way point screen. ) this is followed by delay death. perhaps even with good scrolling and optimization it is too slow?
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1709830029/crashmanidea2.fcm
finalfighter: haha now i remember seeing that picture on your site a while back, but i never knew what it was trying to show since i can't read japanese.
