And the objectively correct palette for GBCinGBA mode is Vivid, as it reflects to what we already use for GBA movies.
Be careful with the word "objectively", it's sharp.
The screen on a real GBA was most definitely not sRGB perfect (which is the implied color space when you use vivid; it just upconverts RGB15 to RGB24 in the standard way and then assumes your monitor is sRGB perfect).
For objective evidence, I submit the game Final Fantasy Tictacs Advance, which has a color configuration option with three choices: "LCD A", "LCD B", and "TV", with notably different palettes. So developers and artists who did their research then were convinced that there was a significant difference even between GBA, GBA SP, and GBA Player, let alone whatever the honks we're doing in an emulator.
Sorry, it wasn't my intention to imply that it would be perfect. I just wanted to say that Vivid would be at the very least more appropriate than the other currently available GBC palettes, for the GBCinGBA mode.
Of course. It's fun, isn't it? These are all quite different and each would need its own palette.
1. Gameboy color being viewed in broad daylight
2. Gameboy color being viewed in incandescent room light at night
3. Gameboy color being viewed in flourescent room light at night
4. Gameboy color game on GBA
5. Gameboy color game on GB Player
There's an option in Bizhawk called "GBA" that attempts to model #4, but I don't know how good it is.
I'm legitimately confused why this topic even exists, haven't we already gone over this in this thread?. heck, when I provided screenshots for this thread, I was only focusing on the title screens since they looked better with BizHawk GBA pallets, but I soon realized (and I mentioned this in that thread) that it doesnt look good for actual gameplay, and makes it darker than usual. I dont want that to happen with GBC as well, and I feel like the pallet is fine as it is. It's not as annoying as FCEUX's pallet.
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By the way, I already used Pokémon Puzzle Challenge as an example of a GBC game that looks particularly bad with Vivid palette, and thus would also look bad in a GBA SP or GBI.
Now I also have an example of a GB game that looks especially bad in GBC, due to the developers not taking in account the different color of background and sprite tiles in GBC, probably because GBC wasn't yet commercialized at the time.
I'm legitimately confused why this topic even exists, haven't we already gone over this in this thread?. heck, when I provided screenshots for this thread, I was only focusing on the title screens since they looked better with BizHawk GBA pallets, but I soon realized (and I mentioned this in that thread) that it doesnt look good for actual gameplay, and makes it darker than usual. I dont want that to happen with GBC as well, and I feel like the pallet is fine as it is. It's not as annoying as FCEUX's pallet.
It exists because the default Gambatte palette is provably awful. And despite me proving that 2 years ago, Spikestuff keeps using it. :V
Personally I'd say it should be the movie author's choice for what palette gets used, within reason. Since clearly there's multiple GBC palettes with successful accuracy comparisons, and multiple valid reasonings for using them, I can't see a catch-all policy. I would beg and plead that Gambatte is NOT the default anymore for when an author voices no preference, though.
GBC in GBA doesn't matter either way for 99% of GBC games (I think??), and can help with console verification. And it shouldn't be tied to Vivid, since as you said, if it does shift the palette it was likely with the intention of being for original GBA screen. Being a long-time GBP user, I still quite like the Vivid palette for a lot of games, but definitely can't vouch that its color output was the 'developer intentions' for ANY game after seeing the examples here, regardless of how good it may look game-to-game.
GBC colors in GB can help with visibility in some games (Donkey Kong Land) and just generally add a little visual polish (Pokemon R/B). So I think that should be author preference as well, within reason. But I never owned a GB, only GBC, so I'm biased towards that look. I could understand forcing a grayscale policy (though, console verification is still a reason to use GB in GBA).
I just want post this since it's kind of relevant to the thread I think:
This is something that has always bothered me. Kirby is supposed to be pink, but many emulators give him not pink colors. The same thing happens with the old GB Kirby games in GBC mode.
I don't really know what is the most accurate color palette, but BGB looks kinda nice here to me.
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Uhm, now that I think about it... Everything we said here doesn't apply if we're playing a game in GBCinGBA mode, since that literally means that GBA (or GBI) is the hardware that it's being emulated, and the palette used should reflect that... Right? And the objectively correct palette for GBCinGBA mode is Vivid, as it reflects to what we already use for GBA movies.
Since the Vivid palette can potentially make some GBC movies less appealing (see Pokémon Puzzle Challenge), I think that we should allow GBCinGBA only for Moons and Stars movies, unless that mode is being used for accessing GBA-only content (see Wendy: Every Witch Way) or if the game has a built-in color adjustment logic (see Harry Potter). EDIT: Actually, that makes things worse, as the GBC games that adjust colors for GBA are actually taking as refer the original GBA only, as opposed to the later commercialized GBA SP that featured a backlight that improved brightness. So, I my opinion, GBCinGBA should still not be allowed for Vault if it accesses purely aesthetic routines only.
I agree that console verification is a good reason to allow GBC-in-GBA mode for GB games, since console verification is an activity directly related with TASing, as it works as a proof of legitimacy for movies made with TASing tools.
About one year ago I suggested to allow the GBC mode for GB games only for Moons and Stars, but it was deemed unnecessary. Personally, I'm fine either way about it, as long there is general agreement.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
I wrote the post from the first quote after writing the post from the second quote. The fact is that I changed my mind and started considering much more the idea of suggesting a restraint for GBCinGBA, and the reason why is explained in the first quote: GBCinGBA should ideally (correct me if I'm wrong) use something like Vivid palette, in order to get closer to what GBC games do look when played in a GBA SP/GBI, which could potentially make movies less enjoyable to watch. That's why I started considering again the idea of limiting GBCinGBA to Moons&Stars, despite the fact that I previously given up after the first time my idea was deemed unnecessary.
Edit: ...I've changed my mind again. Thinking about it again, if a game results less enjoyable to watch due to usage of GBC colors for a GB game, it's a matter purely about entertainment, which should be decided by the audience, not the rules.
On the other hand, I still think that GBCinGBA should use a palette relative to GBA appearance, not GBC.
This is something that has always bothered me. Kirby is supposed to be pink, but many emulators give him not pink colors. The same thing happens with the old GB Kirby games in GBC mode.
I don't really know what is the most accurate color palette, but BGB looks kinda nice here to me.
