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In this final installment of the famous Phantasy Star series, the protagonist, while out on a routine assignment, uncovers evidence pointing to a sinister threat to the entire solar system. One thing leads to another and he and the rest of his party eventually find themselves fighting the root of all evil. Such a quest would normally take at least ten hours, but with copious amounts of luck manipulation, it can be reduced to just under an hour and a half.
Yes, yet another improvement. It had been a while since some people had found new ways to improve the game, namely escaping Igglanova and skipping the spaceship "docking" sequences. I finally decided to get back to it after the menu glitch run. After careful planning, here are the major changes
  • Igglanova: Once paralyzed, your team is able to escape! -1360 frames
But sadly, I had to catch up all these levels before the Juza fight. So at the entrance of Zio's Fort, I had lost about +1530 frames. But it was better than the next best thing, fighting sand newts on my way to Tonoe (over 2k frames loss). Sleeping in Kadary with the previous run would have been even longer (at least 600 frames).
  • Juza: It lasted only 4 rounds - just enough damage from tsu so Rika can finish him with an attack. -1151 frames
  • Gy-Laguiah: I got a little luckier than the previous run. -1252 frames
  • Zio: Another slight improvement, and Rika doesn't fail an attack. -1266 frames
  • Chaos Sorcerer: While Rika couldn't kill him on the first try, skipping the docking meant a net improvement. -1373 frames
  • DF I: Yet more luck (and less space docking). -1499 frames
  • Xe-La-Thul: The largest improvement. I skipped casting barrier AND I was able to manipulate the priests to ONLY attack. -2191 frames
  • Lashiec: It was a little harder to manipulate. - 2165 frames
  • DF II: I skipped casting shift on Rika. -2313 frames
  • DF III: Better manipulation by killing characters earlier. -2850 frames
  • Tower of Strength: always hard to manipulate because of Chaz. -2882 frames
  • Tower of Courage: manipulated killing characters earlier. -2950 frames
  • PD 1: I skipped casting saner since it would have been cancelled anyway. -3119 frames
  • PD 2: I got incredibly lucky by having Rika withstand a hit. -3478 frames
  • PD 3: Chaz, once again, drags me down. But I got the fight started the right way. Total saving (last hitting of a key) 3306 frames
Suggested frame: 10318, escaping Igglanova
Possible improvements: shorter time leveling up before Juza, have enough telepipes to warp to Esper Mansion to get Elsydeon (about 300 frames), better fight manipulation (especially xe-la-thoul; Chaz should have died earlier)

ThunderAxe31: Judging.


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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #6664: janus's Genesis Phantasy Star IV in 1:25:35.45
Patashu
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How does the math work? -1360 to skip a fight but +1530 to do the levelling that skipping that fight missed out on would be a 170 frame loss. Are the numbers correct?
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Yes, the NET loss was 170 frames, but since I had saved 1360 after Igglanova, that truly equals 1530
Patashu
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That's what I mean - if the Igglanova skip loses 170 frames because you have to make it up by levelling later, wouldn't a TAS where you don't do Igglanova skip be 170 frames faster than this one? If these two events allow for later timesaves to be bigger, it's not clear from the description.
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That delay would have been longer, since in the regular run I don't sleep in Kadary (I only stop by to warp later)
EZGames69
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Where can I see an encode? Also is there any reason you use the 2nd controller for Z button presses?
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
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It must me somehow linked to the C key I press, because I don't actively press it
EZGames69
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Ok, because I was trying to see if I could get this synced on bizhawk, but because bizhawk doesn’t allow different combinations of controllers (like for example this movie uses 3 button for the first player and 6 button for the 2nd player), bizhawk isn’t able to import it.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
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Besides, I wanted to compare apples with apples. Bizhawk has so much lag that it ended up being significantly slower
Spikestuff
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As a note. Emulation differences are not accounted for when a run is compared to another emulator. Unless it's blatantly obvious your input is suboptimal and you need to use what you can just to show it. So the justification of "cause lag" isn't a justification.
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BUt then how can I know how much faster/slower I am if I compare Gens 11a with Bizhawk?
EZGames69
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I will admit that it can be tricky to know for sure how much time you’re saving with improved emulation, and it really depends on the game in most cases. One really simple way is to subtract the amount of lag frames in the game, this can be from taking the total lag frames and subtract it from the total frame count. However this may not always be accurate since some games may handle lag frames differently. A more consistent method would be by comparing each stage or area by their frame counts, and ignore loading areas. A good example from one of my submissions was the judgement from my Splatterhouse 2 submission last year: http://tasvideos.org/6338S.html. Here, slamo created a chart that had a standard start time for each stage. This could be something like the first instance of movement from the character, or as soon as the screen fully fades in. The other thing that can help is if you have a memory address that represents in game time, and it stays consistent even if the game has lag in it, that can usually be the best option to use as well. But that’s assuming the game you’re doing has that. One thing I personally like to do is to import movies into the emulator I work with, and see if I can get it to sync and compare my wips with that. However I cant guarantee this to work every time since some games may have a varying amount of emulation differences, especially if RNG changes because of it. So in general there are ways to compare movies that also removes emulation differences, and I’ll admit they aren’t always the most convenient to use. Personally I feel like I’m pretty experienced with movie comparisons in regards to emulation, so I’m used to it, but I understand why most people aren’t. If you are unsure if you’re saving time over an older movie because you aren’t sure if it’s just an emulation difference, there’s people on the site that are willing to help you figure it out. Sorry for the wall of text, I just have alot to say about this topic. EDIT: That being said, at the end of the day, Gens is still an accepted emulator. People are still free to use it if they wish. It's definitely not the worst emulator the site that's still being accepted, but that's also not saying very much. If you wish to use it, then that is your choice. People just generally don't like Gens due to how incredibly inaccurate and outdated it is.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
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Should I ever do an original run again, I will switch to Bizhawk since it seems to be the norm. But for reruns - unless they become obsolete - I will use the one I used before
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