2 player's in the game will have more enemies.so, at the right time, I kill 1P or 2P to reduce the number of enemy or boss HP.Because in the game, the death of a character can mistake the program for a single-player game.
Also, the AB special attack damage of each character is different. LEO = 8, RAPH = 7, MIKE = 11, DON = 9. So, use more appropriate roles at different stages.
Another detail, MIKE's AB special attack can only hit two times, the damage is 22, DON's AB special attack in most cases hit three times, the damage is 27, this is particularly important, can save a lot of time. Specific can be seen in memory address 0628.
As for the score award, I don't pay much attention to it, because there are many points award in the later stage.
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6441
Location: The land down under.
Geesk wrote:
I forgot to delete the redundant frames.
That's 10762 frames for those at home.
You can always upload your file to the userfiles and ask a judge to replace it for you.
I assume it's going to be trimmed down to this so here's a fix:
User movie #51681848481053304
If it's wrong just upload it to userfile and a judge will fix your movie.
---
This drops the movie to a 30:17.64 (109238 frames) which is faster than the current publication by 614 frames.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
@feos
Thank you for the script data provided by feos.
New_TMNT3.fm2
The new time is 29:39:64.
Generally, there are only three enemies of the same kind (there are also five). After killing the enemy soldiers, the explosion effect ends and the troops continue to be sent until the enemy of this kind has finished.
Twoplaying, in some cases there will be more enemy soldiers, so choose to sacrifice 1P or 2P, can reduce the number of enemy soldiers.
Slant moving up and down is faster than straight line moving up and down, straight line moving up and down is faster than jump moving up and down by 1 frame; when moving, jump landing will lose 1 frame.
In the presence of some special enemy soldiers, when the character moves, it will bring some lag frames, which can be avoided by stopping the continuous movement.
The position of the role will affect the location of the enemy, but the number of enemy soldiers is the same. Therefore, by trying different mobile routes, we can indirectly control the position of the enemy, and then get better luck or strategy.
Raph's killing efficiency is the highest of the four roles, so he has to be on the stage all the time.
Mike and Don are the most efficient fighters in the Boss battle. When Mike can't fight (because Raph is going to fight), Don's three AB attacks will be more efficient than other characters.
Boss has "super armor" time when attacking, such as stage 1 collision, stage 3 chain attack and so on, but there are exceptions.
Stage 7's snapping turtle can use its arrow legs (empty B) to trigger it to raise its shield, so that Don's AB can hit three times and interrupt its jump bite to hit three times as well.
When super shredder releases lightning bolt attacks, Mike's AB can hit three times, and it also brings some lag frames, but faster.
How much time you have improved between stages, comparing with the published run, and this WIP?
Sorry,my English is too bad.
This game has been played many times. In actual combat, 37 to 39 minutes and one life complete.
At first I didn't know what TAS was. My friend encouraged me to do it. It took me only three days.
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6441
Location: The land down under.
Unfortunately even with your 136 frame advantage over the current and WIP TAS brought up by Challenger you're beat on Scene 1 even with that advantage by the other TASes.
As for the Second Scene. Syncing the movies up for Scene 2 Dasrik is ahead of you by 57 frames.
The Third Scene, xipo's input is ahead by 15 frames to yours. So even Dasrik's input has issues.
This is a well made newcomer TAS. Just with stuff that exists already it's been beaten in the three scenes I've checked from quick observations.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11478
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Yeah I was sure it'd be slower than the unfinished WIPs. This game is insanely tedious to TAS optimally, because you have to do infinite amounts of planning and RNG manipulation: get a turtle, manipulate enemies to spawn optimally, kill the turtle when enemy spawns will be reduced by having just 1 player, start over and test another turtle the same way.
If you plan to keep working on this game, read through this game's thread, and here's the script that shows some stuff:
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=294129#294129
Overall, if a submission loses time to existing records due to pure sub-optimality, it will be rejected anyway, so instead you might cancel it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
I don't know them, and I only came into contact with TAS in late October. Before that, I didn't even know what TAS was, so I didn't know what they had discussed before.
Rule to reject if it slower than existing WIP is not always good. This submission is faster than current publication. Not perfect improvement it is still an improvement.
Unfinished WIP is grey area. It is not really "existing record" in full sence. Existing record is [983] NES Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III: The Manhattan Project "2 players" by Xipo in 30:30.87. This submition is 10 seconds faster.
I can understand cases if someone work on better movie, but in this case nobody work on improvement, Dasrik's WIP is from 2007 is pretty sure abandoned.
I know that this submission will be rejected/cancelled anyway. But in my opinion sometimes it's better to accept such intermediate TAS as improvement. And obosted them later when/if the better TAS will be submitted.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
This is by no means a strict rule when it comes to unfinished WIPs beating finished runs but we want people to put in a basic amount of research when it comes to submitted TASes and that includes looking up any existing wips.
EDIT: What I mean by "this is not a strict rule" is not to say we will be accepting of outright inferior play. What we strictly enforce is that a submission has execution on par with or superior to any known WIPs. It is to say that a wip that is faster than a submission up to a certain point through a trick that the submission was unaware of but the submission otherwise seems to do its due diligence and has higher execution of that of the WIP is not outright disqualified from acceptance. If the submission loses time in numerous places to a WIP then it is considered obsoleted by the WIP.
What is considered a known WIP is what can be accessed through TASVideos forums, easily accessed through search engines, or otherwise readily available to the author. This is not a hard list, but can be considered a bare minimum. It is not expected that one dive through video sites for hours but one should put in some effort into research when making a submission.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Once again we have the same bullshit rule come up in another submission. The problem is the rule, not the submissions.
The rule that if an existing submission is slower than a portion of an unfinished WIP needs to be scrapped. As it is, good submissions that are improvements on existing publications should be published and let the WIPs replace them if they are ever finished.
Yes vote from me. Should be published alongside the Earthbound TAS similarly rejected. Scrap the rule and move on.
Once again we have the same bullshit rule come up in another submission. The problem is the rule, not the submissions.
The rule that if an existing publication is slower than a portion of an unfinished WIP needs to be scrapped. As it is, good movies that are improvements on existing movies should be published and let the WIPs replace them if they are ever finished.
Yes vote from me.
They're not good movies if they are beaten by WIPs.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
If that were so, why haven't the WIPs (which were started before this one was) been quickly completed to supplant this one? Feos gives some actual insight as to why.
This game is insanely tedious to TAS optimally, because you have to do infinite amounts of planning and RNG manipulation: get a turtle, manipulate enemies to spawn optimally, kill the turtle when enemy spawns will be reduced by having just 1 player, start over and test another turtle the same way.
As it is this submission beats the current existing publication. Ergo, it ought to be published. It's easy to do a level and then quit. Why should good submissions be held back by incomplete WIPs? It's way harder to do the entire game not just a level or two.
That's two movies now that have been rejected. Obviously the problem is the rule, not the submissions. But I guess we'll have spikestuff saying that this movie was 'rushed'.
The rule that if an existing submission is slower than a portion of an unfinished WIP needs to be scrapped.
There's a very VERY easy solution to this, and that is to beat that specific portion. you are acting as if improvements can only be done by the ones who upload WIPs, which makes absolutely zero sense.
electricslide wrote:
As it is, good submissions that are improvements on existing publications should be published and let the WIPs replace them if they are ever finished.
or, the author can try to do research and see if there's any improvements that can be made to the tas, by looking at what others have done and trying to incorporate that into their movies.
You've been told on 3 separate occasions why this rule is in place yet you still return with the same argument that has been shut down.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6441
Location: The land down under.
electricslide wrote:
The rule that if an existing submission is slower than a portion of an unfinished WIP needs to be scrapped.
I like how you ignored a point again just like you've done at EarthBound.
Spikestuff wrote:
The Third Scene, xipo's input is ahead by 15 frames to yours.
The WIP isn't the only thing that you should be looking at, there's also the published movie with hidden improvements over this submission (and that WIP).
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
There's a very VERY easy solution to this, and that is to beat that specific portion. you are acting as if improvements can only be done by the ones who upload WIPs, which makes absolutely zero sense
Nonsense. Why haven't existing WIPs been completed to supplant this submission? They've had sufficient time to do it. Like I said, it's easy to do a level or two and then quit.
Why should we hold completed submissions back just because a level or two has been completed in a WIP that may or may not ever finish? It beats out the current publication and so it should be published. Then, if the WIP ever finishes, then that one can replace this publication.
The fact that more than one person can improve WIPs just makes my case stronger. Why hasn't the WIP been completed yet if everyone can work on the WIP? Answer, because that takes work and people have other priorities. We've had frame wars before.
with the same argument that has been shut down.
The problem is that the rule isn't working and good submissions are being rejected. Once is a coincidence. Twice is happenstance. Three times means that there's a problem with the rule and burying your head in the sand and saying that there's no problem won't suffice.
I get that you want quality, so do I. That's not the issue here. This submission is better than the current publication and improves the roster here at TAS videos. Could it be further improved? Sure. Is it known how it could be improved. Perhaps, but I'd love to see all the people rejecting these submissions finishing up the WIPs in question so that we can see these improvments.
But that's not what is happening. WIPs get submitted, and abandoned and good submissions get shut down. That's a problem with the rule, and why the rule should be scrapped altogether.
My question for you, is how is this rule improving submissions?
The fact that more than one person can improve WIPs just makes my case stronger. Why hasn't the WIP been completed yet if everyone can work on the WIP? Answer, because that takes work and people have other priorities. We've had frame wars before.
because that takes work
We encourage people to put that work into their TASes.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Nonsense. Why haven't existing WIPs been completed to supplant this submission? They've had sufficient time to do it. Like I said, it's easy to do a level or two and then quit.
there are many reasons why they could be abandoned, one could be the author isnt working on it due to being demotivated, or if they are still working on it but havent posted updates recently, TASing should not be a quick and easy thing to do. they are projects that can take a long time to properly do. anyone who has actually done a tas before will tell you that it's not as easy as doing a speedrun.
electricslide wrote:
Why should we hold completed submissions back just because a level or two has been completed in a WIP that may or may not ever finish?
because it's slower.
electricslide wrote:
The fact that more than one person can improve WIPs just makes my case stronger. Why hasn't the WIP been completed yet if everyone can work on the WIP?
probably because some people choose to work on tases on their own, and splicing the inputs may not always work if the game isnt hex friendly. It's also imo very shitty to take someone's inputs without first asking for permission from the original author first. The author of the WIP not being active is a whole different story.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
probably because some people choose to work on tases on their own, and splicing the inputs may not always work if the game isnt hex friendly. It's also imo very shitty to take someone's inputs without first asking for permission from the original author first. The author of the WIP not being active is a whole different story.
imo this is a non-reason, in this case the WIP is abandoned.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
We encourage people to put that work into their TASes.
Quite a bit of work has obviously been put into this submission. But what do I know? It's not like I've ever played this game before.
This is just going to keep coming up and eventually the bad rules going to be scrapped. It has a good intent, but there is a difference between having a good intention and having a good outcome. Scrapping submissions that beat out current publications is a BAD outcome of this rule.
Don't you see that?
Ergo, this should be published. If Memory et al believe that they can improve this movie, I encourage them to actually put in the work and roll up their sleeves and do just that.
Since of course, anyone can improve a WIP.
Ergo, this should be published. If Memory et al believe that they can improve this movie, I encourage them to actually put in the work and roll up their sleeves and do just that.
Since of course, anyone can improve a WIP.
Challenge accepted.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
