This topic is for the purpose of discussing #6134: c-square's DOS Quest for Glory II: Trial by Fire in 08:58.98

Well done with the improvements. I may be picking your brain on subframe inputs in the future.

Tas By Fire!

Any plans to eventually do a full series run with a single character?

Any plans to eventually do a full series run with a single character?

Maybe some day. First we have to finish each game individually to see how each ticks. Also, the marathon run would have to be different enough that it wouldn't look just like staking each individual TAS back-to-back. Hopefully there are some glitches in the export/import processes to exploit. :)

Hopefully there are some glitches in the export/import processes to exploit. :)

Yes, there are. But from a TAS perspective, you'll be finishing each game with WAY lower stats than a normal player would, which may cause problems in the next game. If any of the games have mandatory combats then you're pretty much hosed (but I think that for a wizard or thief, most or all combats are skippable).

Does the clock halt when you go into different rooms like back and forth into the lounge area?

Does the clock halt when you go into different rooms like back and forth into the lounge area?

Interestingly, it's actually the opposite. Every time you do a room transition, the game nudges the clock counter forward or backwards by 1 unit(=24 seconds in-game time). What determines the direction of the nudge is the current value of the clock counter. If the counter is even, it adds one to make it odd. If the counter is odd, it subtracts one to make it even. By doing room transitions when the clock counter is even, I keep nudging the clock forward towards nightfall, which ends up saving about 70 seconds over just waiting around. Of course, you can also exploit the same trick to make time stand still, by always transitioning on the odd counter numbers.

If any of the games have mandatory combats then you're pretty much hosed (but I think that for a wizard or thief, most or all combats are skippable).

QFGs 1 and 2 you can get away without combat. QFG 3 has two combats that would be mandatory in a TAS. One of them you want to lose anyway, so there's no issue there, but the other one is quite a tough one, and the only way around it is to take the time to get a dispel potion (which would be way out of the way). A QFG 3 run will take some time because that combat will require substantial RNG manipulation. Until a shortcut is found in QFG 4, I think there's at least one combat that's mandatory there too.

I'm not even sure if it's possible to RNG-manipulate those; I haven't checked the scripts but knowing Sierra the attacks are probably on a timer. It's an interesting challenge, then. I'm not sure what fight you refer to that you want to lose? We should really convince the judges that starting with the character from the previous game is a valid category for QFG (and possibly a handful of other DOS RPGs) because that's how people commonly play them.[/spoiler]

I could be mistaken, but I remember the QFG4 combat not relying much on the RNG*. I think the better question is if the wraith can be dealt with before it kills you from being near it without protection. *Contrast with QFG1, which I am playing through; the combat in that game (the EGA one at least) is awful

I'm not even sure if it's possible to RNG-manipulate those; I haven't checked the scripts but knowing Sierra the attacks are probably on a timer.

I hope so. That would certainly make things a lot easier.

I'm not sure what fight you refer to that you want to lose?

The fight against your doppelganger. In that one, having super low stats would actually be a benefit, allowing you to lose faster.

We should really convince the judges that starting with the character from the previous game is a valid category for QFG (and possibly a handful of other DOS RPGs) because that's how people commonly play them.

I agree, this is a special case where starting with the character from the previous game is a valid, and even encouraged, entry point to the game. As with any save game start TAS, it would require a verification movie. The bigger trick is somehow extracting the save file from the verification movie so you can use it (not an issue for a marathon run).

I agree, this is a special case where starting with the character from the previous game is a valid, and even encouraged, entry point to the game. As with any save game start TAS, it would require a verification movie. The bigger trick is somehow extracting the save file from the verification movie so you can use it (not an issue for a marathon run).

It's possible to dump a JPC drive's current status to a new disk image. So steps to extract the saved character to use in a TAS of the sequel game would be as follows. 1) Create a disk image for the first game. 2) Create a different disk image for the second game. 3) Mount both images in JPC at the same time. 4) Play through the first game to both get the saved character you want to export and create your verification movie. 5) Exit the game back to DOS within JPC 6) Copy the saved character file from game 1 drive to game 2 drive. 7) Dump game 2 drive into a new image that will now contain game 2 and the saved character from the game 1 verification movie. 8) Re-Assemble JPC mounting only the newly dumped game 2 image with the saved character and TAS as you would any game from scratch. This should work for any game that stores the save information in a separate file. Specifically for QFG: If you're wanting to continue this character all the way through the series, you have to repeat the above steps for each game; where the newly created game 2 image becomes the next game 1 image for each game transition. Where this becomes difficult is for submitting movie files. For submissions, only the game image needed for the run should be mounted. Which means a verification movie shouldn't be submitted as a run because it's got multiple disk images mounted; one of which isn't necessary for the game being played (which is against rules/guidelines that say to only have necessary files).

With regard to stats in a marathon run, what if such a run set was a high-completion-rate goal, like "maximum points?" Would that result in enough work being done to boost stats to acceptable levels?

The bigger question is 'can a marathon run include enough novelty to warrant a separate publication than individual runs of each game?' It may.. given that in latter games have the paladin class character possibilities. But I don't know how much the gameplay differs with the different classes. EDIT: Also, any marathon run or single game run which uses a saved character from a previous game will need to garner enough audience support for moon tier publication. Neither of those scenarios would be vault eligible.

A marathon 100% run would be very interesting, IMO, as there would have to be a lot of careful stat planning to avoid any grinding.

With regard to stats in a marathon run, what if such a run set was a high-completion-rate goal, like "maximum points?" Would that result in enough work being done to boost stats to acceptable levels?

Probably not. Then again, a marathon run is effectively full completion of a series of games, so it would fit well with going for maximum points in each game.

But I don't know how much the gameplay differs with the different classes.

Quite a lot actually. If you go for low% then not so much, but if you go for 100% then every class has their own sidequests in addition to different approaches to a number of puzzles. For instance, in QFG2, the endgame for the wizard is a magical duel with the big bad as it tries to summon the evil djinn; the fighter's is a one-on-one combat with the big bad's enforcer, who is the finest warrior in the lands; and the rogue's is a stealth sequence that ends with assassinating the big bad from the rooftops.

This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [3818] DOS Quest for Glory II: Trial by Fire by c-square in 08:58.98

Publication for new run's description points to an obsoleted run of Hero's Quest. There is a newer run of Hero's Quest at http://tasvideos.org/3639M.html .