Double Dragon is a beat 'em up video game series initially developed by Technōs Japan and released as an arcade game in 1987.
This is a 1-player TAS of Double Dragon Arcade, and as far as I'm aware, this is the first successful attempt at a TAS of Double Dragon. It was a fun run - with lots of lesson learned for lag management (Completed in about 8 minutes, 3 seconds)
Throw as many rocks, knives, boulders as possible!
Show off all the out of bounds areas in the game
Have fun!
Comments
I had a ton of fun creating this TAS. It's my first attempt at making anything. AFAIK this is the only successful attempt at TAS for Genuine Arcade Version. If this TAS were to be adjusted to run at same speed as the Xbox/Steam variants of Double Dragon - this TAS blows the Speed Run Records out of the water (With all the lag and original arcade speed, this TAS finishes in about 8:03 (timed from the point Billy is controllable in Stage 1, to when the boss dies on Stage 4... compared this to sped up lag-less World Record with Steam Version, 8:13).
Stage by stage comments
Stage 1
Pretty basic run leading up to Bolo fight. Lots of attention paid to keeping 1 to 2 mobs on screen at any given time.
Stage 2
Lots of careful positioning to make sure all mobs die at nearly the same time. Final boss and mobs require subpixel positioning to knock them off the cliff. If you throw elbow before they're on exact subpixel positions - they will not fall off the cliff
Stage 3
Horribly Aggravating Fights - Lots of large groups, and stupid AI that gets stuck in corners.
Double Adobo fight was incredibly fun to do. Lots of trial and error figuring out how to get them off the cliff. They must take a certain amount of damage before they fall backwards - before that, all attacks will knock them forwards (and it will be impossible to knock them off cliffs).
Stage 4
I have to give credit to Speed Runner "JJ Chung" for the trick to get thrown up on ledge with Willy. I optimized his original approach - and with the help of TAS, was able to down the boss quickly
Other comments
I think viewers will love to see all the places where you can knock mobs off cliffs, holes and edges
Stage 2 could use some improvement (wasted a few seconds walking too far during boss fight)
General cleanup of attacks (few stray headbutts, elbows)
Stage 4 double Bolo fight is incredibly frustrating. Working on ways to down them both at same time >_<
Faster route up to ledge with Willy (and faster path down??)
A screenshot of the mobs falling off the cliffs would be neat
@ViGadeomes
The hardest difficulty is what the arcade was set to where I frequented. Medium isn't as difficult.
On that note, good to see this submission. So many home systems tried yet didn't get close to the real thing.
Here it is:
[2634] Genesis Double Dragon "1 player" by Dimon12321 in 03:17.47
Also, editors, please replace the NES version link at the description with Alyosha's TAS!
I have doubts about combat being optimized. Oh, I'm kidding - it's not optimized! You should have found out which weapons deal high damages before TASing it. The best way to do so is to find useful addresses in RAM.
Here are some info about SEGA Genesis version: Thread #7260: Double Dragon
I don't know whether Arcade version has different moves/weapons as best ones, but it should be.
Medium diffuculty is deprecated here. You have to TAS the game on either Easy or Hard, which one make the TAS more eintertaining.
Voting no, however your TAS is still good for a newcomer!
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Is there a reason you chose 1 Player instead of 2 Players?
I'm not super familiar with the arcade version, but I'm guessing running 2 players co-op would yield a faster overall run and may offer more opportunity to be entertaining.
I'm going to refrain from voting on this run but will agree with Dimon12321's comment; not bad for your first TAS.
Joined: 10/28/2013
Posts: 130
Location: United States
DrD2k9 wrote:
Is there a reason you chose 1 Player instead of 2 Players?
I'm not super familiar with the arcade version, but I'm guessing running 2 players co-op would yield a faster overall run and may offer more opportunity to be entertaining.
The slowdown in this game is so severe, though -- unless the game makes other changes to compensate (and my memory is that it doesn't), then the second player's mere presence will slow everything to an even slower crawl.
I have doubts about combat being optimized. Oh, I'm kidding - it's not optimized! You should have found out which weapons deal high damages before TASing it. The best way to do so is to find useful addresses in RAM.
Here are some info about SEGA Genesis version: Thread #7260: Double Dragon
I don't know whether Arcade version has different moves/weapons as best ones, but it should be.
Medium diffuculty is deprecated here. You have to TAS the game on either Easy or Hard, which one make the TAS more eintertaining.
Voting no, however your TAS is still good for a newcomer!
Well shoot - I didn't read that part in the docs about Default difficulty was deprecated :( I'm probably going to TAS all 4 difficulty levels eventually, and assumed default difficulty was OK.
Weapon usage in vanilla arcade version isn't straight forward for Arcade version - several factors have to be considered
Does the existence of weapon itself on screen cause lag?
Will throwing it off screen cause lag in next fight?
Does walking back and forth waste even more time (barrels, boulders)
A TAS on easy mode would definitely be more fun to watch (and make).
Is there a reason you chose 1 Player instead of 2 Players?
I'm not super familiar with the arcade version, but I'm guessing running 2 players co-op would yield a faster overall run and may offer more opportunity to be entertaining.
I'm going to refrain from voting on this run but will agree with Dimon12321's comment; not bad for your first TAS.
I've only been TAS'ing for a week :) I think I would have pulled my hair out if I tried making a 2P video first - I wouldn't know where to begin!
A 2 player fight will definitely be more entertaining, but also has a very high chance of being slower (due to lag mechanics of this game).
Edit - I have been thinking about a few places where I might be able to leverage a second player for things like intentional deaths, but I'll work on 2p versions if/when I learn all the tricks for controlling two players at once
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
I'm probably going to TAS all 4 difficulty levels eventually, and assumed default difficulty was OK.
Unless there's significant differences in game content between the difficulty levels, doing all 4 difficulties is probably unnecessary.
Also as a generality, the highest difficulty setting is usually preferred unless a lower setting yields a significantly higher entertainment potential.
I'm probably going to TAS all 4 difficulty levels eventually, and assumed default difficulty was OK.
Unless there's significant differences in game content between the difficulty levels, doing all 4 difficulties is probably unnecessary.
Also as a generality, the highest difficulty setting is usually preferred unless a lower setting yields a significantly higher entertainment potential.
For this case I should shoot for easiest. Highest level difficulty would be boring IMO (just a lot more elbow sequences)
I'm gonna TAS all difficulties for my own enjoyment (I'm borderline obsessed with this game haha. I've been playing it since it first came out in arcade - giving me over 30 years of happy experience with it)
Ahh Gotcha. The out of bounds areas (places where the game isn't controlling bounds of playable area - and you can drop enemies to their death) are:
Stage 1 - boss fight area, bottom edge of ledge (the whole ledge appears to work)
Stage 2: Start area, bottom left hand corner
Stage 3: rock climbable area before fight with Green Bolo
Stage 4: boss fight area, bottom edge of platform (Haven't tested exhaustively, but the most consistent positions to get enemies lined up on correct pixel appears to be the right side)
Ahh Gotcha. The out of bounds areas (places where the game isn't controlling bounds of playable area - and you can drop enemies to their death) are:
Stage 1 - boss fight area, bottom edge of ledge (the whole ledge appears to work)
Stage 2: Start area, bottom left hand corner
Stage 3: rock climbable area before fight with Green Bolo
Stage 4: boss fight area, bottom edge of platform (Haven't tested exhaustively, but the most consistent positions to get enemies lined up on correct pixel appears to be the right side)
A 2 player fight will definitely be more entertaining, but also has a very high chance of being slower (due to lag mechanics of this game).
Edit - I have been thinking about a few places where I might be able to leverage a second player for things like intentional deaths, but I'll work on 2p versions if/when I learn all the tricks for controlling two players at once
No-one wants to watch a slideshow.
You have to buy a gaming keyboard that reads input from at least 6 buttons pressed at once.
To make a 2P TAS, you have to use TAS editor where you can choose which buttons to press per each frame and see the result without playing back the whole movie. It requires NO sophistication from you. Arcade emulators doesn't have it for now =(
sugarfoot wrote:
Does the existence of weapon itself on screen cause lag?
Will throwing it off screen cause lag in next fight?
Does walking back and forth waste even more time (barrels, boulders)
Probably, but weapons usually lie and are not as big as humans. You won't have time to throw them away.
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Joined: 1/24/2018
Posts: 303
Location: Stafford, NY
Glad to see my previous suggestion (in another thread) helped out here! Refraining from voting, but I hope you see Sugarfoot why you should use official releases over bootlegs. :)
c-square wrote:
Yes, standard runs are needed and very appreciated here too
Dylon Stejakoski wrote:
Me and the boys starting over our games of choice for the infinityieth time in a row because of just-found optimizations
^ Why I don't have any submissions despite being on the forums for years now...
Here it is:
[2634] Genesis Double Dragon "1 player" by Dimon12321 in 03:17.47I have doubts about combat being optimized. Oh, I'm kidding - it's not optimized! You should have found out which weapons deal high damages before TASing it. The best way to do so is to find useful addresses in RAM.
Damage Table and RAM offsets listed in my Arcade Forum Post: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=466495#466495
I'll copy paste here too for convenience sake:
Basic Attack Damage
=====================
Punch: 2
Uppercut: 6
Knee Smash: 2
Kick: 3
Roundhouse: 4
Headbutt: 3
Spinning Back Kick: 3
Throw: 4
Elbow: 5
Combos
Kick, Uppercut: 9
Punch, Punch, Uppercut: 10:
Kick, Knee, Knee, Throw: 11
Punch, Punch, Knee, Knee, Throw: 12
Punch, Punch, Knee, Knee, Release-Grapple, Elbow: 13
Weapon Damage
==========
Whip: 5
Bat: 5
Barrel: 6
Box: 5. 10 or 11 damage
Kicked Box: 5, 10 or 11 damage
Kicked Barrel: 6
Boulder: 6
Kicked Boulder: 6
Knife: 16
Dynamite: Instant Death (Dmg > 53)
Dynamite (Glancing Blow): 34
Environmental Hazard Damage
========================
Stage 4 Cinderblock Wall: 30 or 40
Gargoyle Spears: 32 damage or Instant death (Dmg > 53)
RAM Addresses Of Interest
=====================
000003C1: Player 1 Health
0000041F: Player 2 Health
0000047D: Enemy 1 Health
000004D2: Enemy 2 Health
00000527: Enemy 3 Health
0000057C: Enemy 4 Health
000005D1: Enemy 5 Health
00000626: Enemy 6 Health
0000067B: Enemy 7 Health
000006D0: Enemy 8 Health
00000725: Boss Health
A 2/3 yes vote, man. I also love this game and it really made me smile that you managed to complete this - thank you! : )
It seems combat optims are really possible, please try to work on it further (that's why 2/3 yes vote ; ), but it's looking nice nevertheless : )
Really like some moments, namely 1:11 with the knife kick ; 1:50 where the guy says to himself "I'll just disarm this dynamite and-" ; ) ; 3:45 of "punching the guy who decided to play Batman" ; after that, usage of the first hole (second is ok too) ; 4:52 and the "boulder play" ; and of course, 7:58 where Bolo could finally admit he doesn't like the boss and he wants to help :D (and naturally, the consquences of the boss dying).
It's funny to notice how the green Bolo part isn't slowed down compared to most of the game - perhaps a different version would be sensible to use?
And using easy OR hard difficult would probably be a good idea. I'd vote for easy, too (less grinding). Just more optimized, please.
Also, WTF happens 3 frames (YT encode) after the last of the boss' sidekick goes through the door and vanishes? Two characters appear at lower right corner, one being Jimmy, and the second? Cloned Billy?
As for playing on two players, there's a small problem at the very end, because after defeating the final boss, Jimmy (2UP) would fight with 1UP, ie Billy (either being a secret boss of the organisation or fighting for the girl, don't remember). And the slowdown would be more present throughout the game, too.
For a laugh: look at Marian's arms at 8:43 (fun fact: Marian is a male name in Polish). It seems she likes weightlifting/gym as much as the brothers do! ; )
A 2/3 yes vote, man. I also love this game and it really made me smile that you managed to complete this - thank you! : )
It seems combat optims are really possible, please try to work on it further (that's why 2/3 yes vote ; ), but it's looking nice nevertheless : )
Really like some moments, namely 1:11 with the knife kick ; 1:50 where the guy says to himself "I'll just disarm this dynamite and-" ; ) ; 3:45 of "punching the guy who decided to play Batman" ; after that, usage of the first hole (second is ok too) ; 4:52 and the "boulder play" ; and of course, 7:58 where Bolo could finally admit he doesn't like the boss and he wants to help :D (and naturally, the consquences of the boss dying).
It's funny to notice how the green Bolo part isn't slowed down compared to most of the game - perhaps a different version would be sensible to use?
And using easy OR hard difficult would probably be a good idea. I'd vote for easy, too (less grinding). Just more optimized, please.
Also, WTF happens 3 frames (YT encode) after the last of the boss' sidekick goes through the door and vanishes? Two characters appear at lower right corner, one being Jimmy, and the second? Cloned Billy?
As for playing on two players, there's a small problem at the very end, because after defeating the final boss, Jimmy (2UP) would fight with 1UP, ie Billy (either being a secret boss of the organisation or fighting for the girl, don't remember). And the slowdown would be more present throughout the game, too.
For a laugh: look at Marian's arms at 8:43 (fun fact: Marian is a male name in Polish). It seems she likes weightlifting/gym as much as the brothers do! ; )
Thanks for the feedback!
I'm not sure what those ghost characters are when Mariam is rescued, I found that vey interesting too.
And yes totally - I plan to record another video that's very optimized (it was never my intent for this to be final version). I have my Lua Macros written out, exact health amounts for every enemy in game, and combat calculations laid out in a spreadsheet for Easy Mode (way more entertaining to make, and to watch!).
I'm gonna try to get something up over the weekend.
