Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
If you're going to just open and close the PlayStation lid, then it's allowed.
Only if it is emulated well and behaves in the emulator the same as with the console.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Hi, I want ask about glitch steal something from other file save. It's important because maybe it'll work in many games
Example I already have a good file save with needed things, maybe standing near final boss, call it's file save A. Now I'll start TAS, start play new game, do something unitl can make save game. At this time, I have two cases to ask
1/ I'll overwrite save to save A, call it's save B. But during save, I'll make soft reset for make save corruption. After load save B is done, I'll have something (or everything) from save A, items or map data.
2/ I'll make new state save, call it's save B.But during save, I'll make soft reset for make save corruption. Next, I'll load save A. After load save A is done, I'll choose load save B. After load save B is done, I'll have something (or everything) from save A, items or map data.
Abuse something from other file save for do TAS with this ways is ok?
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
http://tasvideos.org/MovieRules.html#WeDoNotAllowSaveAnchoredMovies
SRAM-anchored movies are allowed as an exception if there is some unlockable content that is only available with dirty SRAM. You can't stop the game in level 2, save to the file, and use that in the SRAM-anchored movie. The first movie (the verification one) should actually unlock something if you want it to be used as an anchor for your submission.
Also the submission you make must be entertaining enough to be accepted, because this type of movies is only applicable to Moons.
If these requirements are met, then you can do whatever you want with the SRAM functionality. It just won't be the any% kind of branch.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Greetings, I hope a Judge can clarify this for me
I plan to start working on a "All Campaigns" TAS for Rollcage Stage II for the PSX
I reviewed all the submission & movie rules, and everything seems to be in order
for me to begin the project.
but I'm unsure about one problem
In the game menu in the single player option
there is a selection of various game modes:
- TYPE I Campaign
- TYPE II Campaign (Initially hidden until TYPE I is beaten)
- MASTERS Campaign (Initially hidden until TYPE II is beaten)
- Arcade
- Time Attack
- Training
- Scramble
- All Tracks
The Campaigns are just a series of races (which also unlock content as you finish each Campaign, similar to career mode is most other games)
In the TAS I plan to only complete the 3 Campaigns
(ignoring the other game modes, since they're not important)
The problem emerges with one of the movie rules.
The movie rules say that TAS's must end with a End Game/Credits Screen
However in Rollcage the Credit screen appears each time after beating a Campaign. (after a few frames the credits can be skipped with a button input)
So in a "All Campaigns" TAS the same credit screen would appear 3 times during the movie
for each beaten Campaign.
As mentioned before the first 2 credit screens could be skipped with a button input
while allowing the 3rd and final Credit Screen at the end of the Movie to run unskipped.
Would this be acceptable?
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
It is acceptable as a single movie that consecutively unlocks the hidden stuff and completes it. Even if the hidden modes didn't have an ending, completing them can be defined without problems. You can also make 3 movies, one per campaign.
Another question is how entertaining it will be. If the game mode requires starting from a save file, the movie playing that mode should be entertaining enough for Moons. If "all campaigns" isn't recognized by the game in any way, nor mentioned in the manual as some sort of full completion, such a movie would also need to be entertaining enough for Moons.
The Vault tier, which accepts boring movies, doesn't allow arbitrarily defined goals or starting from a save.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 1466
Location: Not playing Puyo Tetris
How Optimized does a section of a Run have to be?
I ask because in the game Wishbringer, there's a large section where there's about 2000+ options for the same result (In game). Do I have to test every option to find the optimal solution? Or, just find a solution that is still quick.
When TAS does Quake 1, SDA will declare war.
The Prince doth arrive he doth please.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
You should invest enough effort to make your movie hard to beat. There can't be a clear cut for your case.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
I've been thinking of doing a run which would be fairly iffy by the usual TASVideos guidelines, but I think would nevertheless be valuable in its own right. Specifically, I'm thinking of an ACE run of the Spaceworld prototype for Pokemon Gold and Silver.
Now, this prototype doesn't actually have an ending programmed, so my proposal is to recreate a mock one using the ACE itself, maybe something along the lines of porting the credits from the finished game. (Optionally, there could be further playing around for entertainment prior to this.)
I do realize that the TASVideos rules normally forbid playing on a prototype game when a final release exists, however in this case I feel it's reasonable to argue that the final game is not just a finished version of the prototype, when 50% of the engine and Pokemon, plus 100% of the maps, were scrapped in between the two. Just about the only thing that would remain the same compared to the final game is the player character's sprite. (Even the console isn't entirely the same, since they switched from the SGB to the GBC mid-development.) Certainly the glitches available to use are very different, as ACE takes 30 minutes in the final game but is looking likely to be possible in under 5 thanks to some glitches inherited from the first generation.
So what I want to know is, could a run like this be considered acceptable for publication, if it proved sufficiently entertaining? Or would the choice of game (a prototype without an ending) disqualify it regardless?
Indeed the TASVideos rules do prohibit the usage of prototypes when an official release is available. We would need to make some sort of exception to the rule.
Personally, I question the whole concept. An unfinished version of a game is going to naturally be less playtested than a finished version and naturally be more buggy. What advantage is there to exploiting ACE in an unfinished game rather than a finished one? Why should this be an exception to the rule? Sure it's "vastly different" but as you said, it doesn't even have an ending normally. Why would exploiting a glitch in a development build of a game to add an ending to it be satisfying?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
100% rules question: say a game contains 100 items, some of them have duplicates out of bounds, and collecting both the out-of-bounds and in-bounds copy does not increase your percentage more than collecting just a single one. Is it legitimate for an all-items/100% run to collect just an out-of-bounds copy of an item, and not the intended original?
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
ais523 wrote:
100% rules question: say a game contains 100 items, some of them have duplicates out of bounds, and collecting both the out-of-bounds and in-bounds copy does not increase your percentage more than collecting just a single one. Is it legitimate for an all-items/100% run to collect just an out-of-bounds copy of an item, and not the intended original?
feos wrote:
The game officially promoting maximizing some item or action, can't be completely disregarded if we want to come up with a solid full completion definition for a given game.
On the other hand, we can't limit ourselves to this alone either, because the community speedrunning the game may happen to have fuller definition for full completion.
So to actually define full completion for a given game, we can't have strict rules, but we can have guidelines that would let us understand how to even handle this.
Here's what has been agreed on, on IRC:
Read the manual.
See what the game tracks, recognizes, awards for.
Check what existing speedrun community does.
Talk to the community and try to come up with an agreement.
Keep the definition clear and solid considering the above factors.
I added the last point to indicate that when people are brainstorming, we must encourage them to come up with clear and solid definitions, but we still rely on the community decision.
So if everyone agrees that this movie's goals should be considered full completion for this game, at least for tasvideos, we can consider it vaultable.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
I have a doubt about a movie rule I read but didn't understand it clearly.
I'm attempting to obsolete a movie made by another user, but that current movie (for now e-e) is really helping me sometimes with some tricks, the other 50% of times is completely original input.
I read that if I copy some chunks of gameplay it can be credited, I got it, but I don't exactly copy the input, that current movie just let me know some of useful tricks for the TAS and then I do the tricks for myself.
Sooo... if you get tricks based of a movie by other user it must be credited as a co-author? Even if I don't exactly copy the input to my WIP.
I saw a submission that credits another user by something similar than this, but I'm not sure if I must do
Here's the WIP for let you understand better of what I'm trying to say (see Stage 5 specially)
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/49520731692274216
Maybe... any contribution of any kind that helps some way must be credited... Idk xDD
I have a doubt about a movie rule I read but didn't understand it clearly.
I'm attempting to obsolete a movie made by another user, but that current movie (for now e-e) is really helping me sometimes with some tricks, the other 50% of times is completely original input.
I read that if I copy some chunks of gameplay it can be credited, I got it, but I don't exactly copy the input, that current movie just let me know some of useful tricks for the TAS and then I do the tricks for myself.
Sooo... if you get tricks based of a movie by other user it must be credited as a co-author? Even if I don't exactly copy the input to my WIP.
I saw a submission that credits another user by something similar than this, but I'm not sure if I must do
Here's the WIP for let you understand better of what I'm trying to say (see Stage 5 specially)
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/49520731692274216
Maybe... any contribution of any kind that helps some way must be credited... Idk xDD
You don't need to make anybody that contributes tricks a co-author unless you really want to.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Cyorter wrote:
I have a doubt about a movie rule I read but didn't understand it clearly.
I'm attempting to obsolete a movie made by another user, but that current movie (for now e-e) is really helping me sometimes with some tricks, the other 50% of times is completely original input.
I read that if I copy some chunks of gameplay it can be credited, I got it, but I don't exactly copy the input, that current movie just let me know some of useful tricks for the TAS and then I do the tricks for myself.
Sooo... if you get tricks based of a movie by other user it must be credited as a co-author? Even if I don't exactly copy the input to my WIP.
I saw a submission that credits another user by something similar than this, but I'm not sure if I must do
Here's the WIP for let you understand better of what I'm trying to say (see Stage 5 specially)
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/49520731692274216
Maybe... any contribution of any kind that helps some way must be credited... Idk xDD
If you're not copying someone's input right away, only recreating the result, it's entirely your movie. It's also better to redo it on your own even when you're simply reproducing everything, because while doing so, you may suddenly find a new trick.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
I have a doubt about a movie rule I read but didn't understand it clearly.
I'm attempting to obsolete a movie made by another user, but that current movie (for now e-e) is really helping me sometimes with some tricks, the other 50% of times is completely original input.
I read that if I copy some chunks of gameplay it can be credited, I got it, but I don't exactly copy the input, that current movie just let me know some of useful tricks for the TAS and then I do the tricks for myself.
Sooo... if you get tricks based of a movie by other user it must be credited as a co-author? Even if I don't exactly copy the input to my WIP.
I saw a submission that credits another user by something similar than this, but I'm not sure if I must do
Here's the WIP for let you understand better of what I'm trying to say (see Stage 5 specially)
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/49520731692274216
Maybe... any contribution of any kind that helps some way must be credited... Idk xDD
If you're not copying someone's input right away, only recreating the result, it's entirely your movie. It's also better to redo it on your own even when you're simply reproducing everything, because while doing so, you may suddenly find a new trick.
I have a game that has unlockable content in form of stages. You start with one stage, and each time you finish a stage, the credits roll and another stage is unlocked, with one exception. There is no end point defined by the game, as each credit roll is the same, even on the final unlocked stage.
However, unlocking the last stage normally has a ~20 minute cost and is really repetitive, since it would be adding 20 minutes of boring content to a ~15-20 minute run. I can use a completed save file to skip this unlock, and using one gives no other advantages gameplay-wise (it makes the game load a few frames faster, which is irrelevant).
Two questions:
- Is an acceptable end point beating all stages (as in, all new content) of the game and ending the movie on the last credits?
- Is it allowed to use SRAM in the way described above, to skip a long unlocking process that makes my TAS less entertaining?
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
What if you unlock them all in a verification movie, and then use that SRAM to actually TAS them all in one movie? Will they all remain the same as they originally were?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
If such a SRAM-anchored movie is going to be really entertaining, then just make a TAS. There are no codes/passwords to unlock those levels, right?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
If such a SRAM-anchored movie is going to be really entertaining, then just make a TAS. There are no codes/passwords to unlock those levels, right?
If it's the game I'm thinking of, the only way to unlock this level involves grinding 2006 bananas and it should be entertaining enough.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Does TASVideos have a stance on using a crack to remove DRM from a game? libTAS has a lot of potential for TASing PC games but one of the requirements for a game to work is that it cannot have DRM. If it does, it will always cause a desync because it affects the game somehow (its effects are different for each game).
Typically, DRM is used to prevent piracy because it does a variety of checks to ensure you're playing on a legitimate copy of the game. Many pirated games either remove the DRM completely or find a way to stop it from working. One specific example I have is Far Cry 3. If you purchase the game legally through steam, uPlay, or a physical copy, the game will do some kind of check during the loading screens to make sure you're playing on a legit copy of the game. However, if you buy a physical copy of the game (or pirate the 1.0 version), you can install the original 1.0 version of the game. The gameplay differences are minor, but there is a crack for this version that completely removes the DRM. Theoretically, this could be TASed with libTAS if it were compatible (ignore the fact that Far Cry 3 does not have a Linux version, this was just an example and could apply to any game). As a result of removing the DRM, the loading times are quite a bit faster because it doesn't take time to check your copy of the game. But it doesn't affect any actual gameplay as far as I'm aware.
Does TASVideos have a stance on this sort of thing?
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
There's no stance yet. The rules say that if the good dump is not available, hacked ones can be used. But for cases when the thing needs to be hacked to be tased in the first place, it feels like it needs a whole new thread in General forum, so everyone could have a say.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
I've just finished my TAS of Nights into Dreams and before I submit it I thought that I should check to see if there are any issues or things that could be changed.
For the run I complete both characters three unique stages and then select the final stage. The thing about this is that both characters share the same final stage and I only complete one of them to reach the credits and get that characters ending.
The stage is identical between the two, so would it be fine if I just leave things as is to avoid repeating the same stage/boss fight.
