Posted: 11/12/2017 1:01 AM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:54 PM)
Post subject: Font Display Issue with JPC-RR
Quote
DrD2k9
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2210)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1086
Location: US
Arcade TAS of 2023 Exotic platforms TASer of 2020 First edition TAS of 2020 Gameboy TAS of 2020 Exotic platforms TASer of 2019 Computer TASer of 2017
So I've TASed Space Quest 1 on JPC-RR. But as can be seen in this image, the in-game font doesn't display correctly. Using the same game files on dosbox, the font displays appropriately. Any suggestions on how to fix this?
Posted: 11/13/2017 2:10 AM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:54 PM)
Post subject: Re: Font Display Issue with JPC-RR
Quote
c-square
Active player (377)
Joined: 9/25/2011
Posts: 652
Speedy TAS of 2015
DrD2k9 wrote:
So I've TASed Space Quest 1 on JPC-RR. But as can be seen in this image, the in-game font doesn't display correctly. Using the same game files on dosbox, the font displays appropriately. Any suggestions on how to fix this?
Wow, that is odd. Could you send the movie file? I'll give it a shot and see if I come up with the same thing. I don't see this disqualifying a submission, if it happens consistently for everyone.
Posted: 11/14/2017 6:24 PM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:54 PM)
Quote
DrD2k9
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2210)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1086
Location: US
Arcade TAS of 2023 Exotic platforms TASer of 2020 First edition TAS of 2020 Gameboy TAS of 2020 Exotic platforms TASer of 2019 Computer TASer of 2017
As found by c-square, this site may explain the font issue, at least in part.
Posted: 11/14/2017 6:32 PM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:54 PM)
Quote
fsvgm777
She/Her
Senior Publisher, Player (225)
Joined: 5/28/2009
Posts: 1213
Location: Luxembourg
Speculation time: Maybe it could have something to do with it running on FreeDOS instead of MS-DOS? The thing is, JPC-RR is also a DOS emulator, and the site mentions that "To get around this, the AGI games might need to be run with a third party DOS emulator like DOSBox or one of the new third party AGI interpreters such as NAGI or Sarien.". Maybe one would have to test on MS-DOS inside JPC-RR and see if the text's garbled there as well? EDIT: No dice. It's an emulation bug.
Steam Community page - Bluesky profile Oh, I'm just a concerned observer.
Posted: 11/14/2017 10:21 PM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:54 PM)
Quote
DrD2k9
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2210)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1086
Location: US
Arcade TAS of 2023 Exotic platforms TASer of 2020 First edition TAS of 2020 Gameboy TAS of 2020 Exotic platforms TASer of 2019 Computer TASer of 2017
fsvgm777 wrote:
Speculation time: Maybe it could have something to do with it running on FreeDOS instead of MS-DOS
I wondered that too...looks like you figured out that it's not the issue before I had a chance to test it.
Posted: 11/15/2017 3:34 AM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:54 PM)
Quote
c-square
Active player (377)
Joined: 9/25/2011
Posts: 652
Speedy TAS of 2015
fsvgm777 wrote:
EDIT: No dice. It's an emulation bug.
I'm not convinced it's an emulation bug. The same effect reportedly happens if your run the game in Windows 95, and that's not emulating (I don't think).
Posted: 11/15/2017 5:25 AM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:54 PM)
Quote
fsvgm777
She/Her
Senior Publisher, Player (225)
Joined: 5/28/2009
Posts: 1213
Location: Luxembourg
DrD2k9 wrote:
I wondered that too...looks like you figured out that it's not the issue before I had a chance to test it.
I actually tried it myself (with a DOS 6.22 floppy) last night, and....the font was equally messed up.
Steam Community page - Bluesky profile Oh, I'm just a concerned observer.
Posted: 11/15/2017 5:32 AM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:54 PM)
Quote
c-square
Active player (377)
Joined: 9/25/2011
Posts: 652
Speedy TAS of 2015
fsvgm777 wrote:
I actually tried it myself (with a DOS 6.22 floppy) last night, and....the font was equally messed up.
In that case, it's not an emulation bug. If the text for the game is garbled under real "console" conditions, then this run should be acceptable IMO, even with garbled text. Thoughts?
Posted: 11/15/2017 8:31 AM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:54 PM)
Quote
DrD2k9
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2210)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1086
Location: US
Arcade TAS of 2023 Exotic platforms TASer of 2020 First edition TAS of 2020 Gameboy TAS of 2020 Exotic platforms TASer of 2019 Computer TASer of 2017
c-square wrote:
In that case, it's not an emulation bug. If the text for the game is garbled under real "console" conditions, then this run should be acceptable IMO, even with garbled text. Thoughts?
Well, I'm biased, but I hope it can still be accepted. To further discussion though...I've been searching everywhere I can think of for info on this problem. It seems to be a conflict of some sort between the game's AGI interpreter and the (in this case emulated) graphics cards. It even occurs on many real systems trying to play the game. The only solutions I have found in my searches, is to play the game using third party interpreters like NAGI, Sarien, etc. This leads me to believe that DosBox and JPC-rr are likely emulating different style graphics cards. So the problem with the submitted run is not a 'emulation error' per se. I am thus assuming that JPC-rr is emulating a newer style graphics card resulting in the same display bug that many actual systems would also display with these old AGI based games. Sorry I can't explain any further, I don't understand the software/technology to that depth.
Posted: 11/15/2017 8:33 AM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:54 PM)
Quote
Radiant
Player (26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
c-square wrote:
In that case, it's not an emulation bug. If the text for the game is garbled under real "console" conditions, then this run should be acceptable IMO, even with garbled text.
I concur. I'm wondering though. There are easily dozens of different versions of the AGI interpreter, and there are three versions of Space Quest (1.0x, 1.1a, 2.2) that each use a different one. Does this font issue occur in all AGI version? This should be easy to check.
Indie game developer
Posted: 11/15/2017 8:46 AM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:54 PM)
Quote
DrD2k9
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2210)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1086
Location: US
Arcade TAS of 2023 Exotic platforms TASer of 2020 First edition TAS of 2020 Gameboy TAS of 2020 Exotic platforms TASer of 2019 Computer TASer of 2017
Radiant wrote:
I'm wondering though. There are easily dozens of different versions of the AGI interpreter, and there are three versions of Space Quest (1.0x, 1.1a, 2.2) that each use a different one. Does this font issue occur in all AGI version? This should be easy to check.
I don't have other versions of SQ1 to test at this time. But in my reading, it seems to be the same problem with nearly all the AGI based games. Is there a way to compare which graphics cards are emulated by DosBox and JPC-rr?
Posted: 11/15/2017 3:32 PM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:54 PM)
Quote
Radiant
Player (26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
DrD2k9 wrote:
I don't have other versions of SQ1 to test at this time. But in my reading, it seems to be the same problem with nearly all the AGI based games.
I can't even find this issue on the site you refer to. Do you have a more specific link?
Is there a way to compare which graphics cards are emulated by DosBox and JPC-rr?
DOSbox emulates Hercules, CGA, EGA, and VGA (of course, these Sierra games don't do anything with VGA yet). I haven't been able to find info for JPC-rr.
Indie game developer
Posted: 11/15/2017 4:46 PM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:54 PM)
Quote
creaothceann
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 4/7/2005
Posts: 1874
Location: Germany
It seems to emulate VGA. (needs a VGA BIOS, among other things)
Posted: 11/15/2017 6:04 PM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:54 PM)
Quote
fsvgm777
She/Her
Senior Publisher, Player (225)
Joined: 5/28/2009
Posts: 1213
Location: Luxembourg
Okay, I'm going to retract my statement on the garbled text being an emulation bug, because it actually isn't. It's related to the VGA BIOS JPC-RR is using (which is this one by default). As pointed out right here:
Some of the newer graphics cards might garble the text in these games and make it unreadable.
Maybe one could test with a proprietary VGA BIOS (if that's at all supported by JPC-RR) that's old enough to actually display the text properly. So...further testing needs to be done. Something to consider is that Space Quest I (AGI) is an EGA game.
Steam Community page - Bluesky profile Oh, I'm just a concerned observer.
Posted: 11/16/2017 2:09 AM
(Edited: 6/4/2022 4:54 PM)
Quote
DrD2k9
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2210)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1086
Location: US
Arcade TAS of 2023 Exotic platforms TASer of 2020 First edition TAS of 2020 Gameboy TAS of 2020 Exotic platforms TASer of 2019 Computer TASer of 2017
fsvgm777 has discovered that using "VGABIOS-elpin-2.40" instead of the VGABIOS that comes with JPC-rr yields normal text in the AGI games!