FINAL INPUT FRAME: 35,414


first completed tas
very fun to make
will make more
upon initially completing this tas i accidentally discovered a glitch
this glitch ended up being useful for saving frames
glitch is referred to as "door skip" below

GAME OBJECTIVES:

  • delve into caves
  • blow up walls/doors
  • rescue 20 dudes

EMULATOR USED:

  • bizhawk 1.11.9.1

MOVIE OBJECTIVES:

  • fast

FLIGHT:

  • up input has a delay that tends to vary
  • down input has no effect during flight
  • descending in flight can be a waiting game
  • cannot drop bombs in the air

DROPPING RANDOM/EXTRA BOMBS:

  • drop as many extra bombs as you can if stage has under 6 doors
  • some stages require all 6 bombs for 6 doors (level 7-19)
  • only one bomb on screen at a time
  • cannot drop bombs in any of the final rooms
  • bomb count at the end of each stage is 16 frames per bomb
  • bomb drop during stage takes about 1-8 frames
  • don't drop the extra bomb in stage 20 due to inputs/time ending before post stage bomb count

BOMB SKIP:

  • some doors you can perform what i call a "bomb skip" on
  • to do the bomb skip you hover a minimum of 7 pixels over bomb
  • fly passed the door without waiting for bomb hitbox to disappear
  • there is a threshold where this will work or not depending on how long ago you were descending
  • bomb skip works on all doors in horizontal rooms with appropriate setup
  • i counted 36 bomb skips in this tas (possible more could be added to future tas)

DOOR SKIP (GLITCH):

  • some doors can be broken via a bomb placed on the previous screen
  • place bomb and move to new room before it explodes
  • bomb is carried to x position 147 on new screen <--BASED NRGZAM FIGURED THIS OUT
  • x position 147 hits the right side door in all horizontally linked rooms
  • there are 8 door skips in this tas (i believe that is the maximum amount possible)

STRATS PER STAGE:

level 1: drop 1 extra bomb
level 2: drop 3 extra bombs
level 3: drop 3 extra bombs - blow up wall/enemy at same time
level 4: drop 2 extra bombs - 1 bomb skip
level 5: drop 4 extra bombs - wiggle passed the turtle head this skips 2 doors (this is the only turtle head you can skip.. i know it's a snake)
level 6: drop 1 extra bomb - 1 bomb skip
level 7: (begin 6 doors and horizontal rooms) 2 bomb skips
level 8: 2 bomb skips
level 9: 2 door skips - 1 bomb skip
level 10: 2 bomb skips
level 11: 3 bomb skips
level 12: 3 bomb skips
level 13: 5 bomb skips
level 14: 3 bomb skips - 1 door skip
level 15: 4 bomb skips
level 16: 2 bomb skips - 1 door skip
level 17: 3 bomb skips
level 18: 1 door skip - 1 bomb skip
level 19: 3 bomb skips
level 20: (5 doors) 3 door skips

CAN THIS TAS BE IMPROVED?:

  • this is my first completed tas so yeah probably
  • there are probably a few frames i missed
  • optimizing flight movement is kind of awkward
  • could possibly add more bomb skips i might have neglected?
  • possibly more glitches i'm unaware of

THINGS YOU MIGHT WANT TO KNOW?:

  • this is a one hit and you're dead kind of game
  • there are no damage boosts you can do without dying
  • when you die, you respawn at that same area and continue on
  • i was really hoping death could be abused in this game to save frames
  • unfortunately dying takes too much time and was never beneficial in testing

feos: Replaced the movie with a trimmed one, also judging...
feos: So I examined the comparison video posted by FractalFusion and went to the frames where this run looked like it was losing frames. And it was... losing frames... due to falling longer. I tried improving this run in such places and I couldn't. The physics just got sludgier after heavy core improvements by Alyosha. So this run is no sub-optimal, it's a real gameplay improvement, as even with those emulation slow-downs in some places, the final time is still shorter.
Accepting as an improvement to the existing run.
I also looked at the bottom of all Moons movies sorted by entertainment, and the existing H.E.R.O. run is far from the bottom. This game also gets positive feedback once again. So I can't downgrade it to Vault, even though the actual entertainment ratings aren't 6+. It still seems the cutoff is fairly unreliable, and the decision is up to the real human. So Moons it is again.
Fog: Processing.


TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #5381: StarvinStruthers's A2600 H.E.R.O. in 09:51.01
Spikestuff
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Welp. Time for someone (not it) to do a comparison between this TAS and... [2343] A2600 H.E.R.O. by FractalFusion in 09:55.78 Edit: v Nevermind v
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
Player (175)
Joined: 8/15/2015
Posts: 56
Location: USA
this is the correct zipped bk2.. final time should be around 9:50.2 http://www.mediafire.com/file/1iwu5v2tgfzf7mx/heroTAS5.zip
Skilled player (1247)
Joined: 8/29/2014
Posts: 302
Answering the TASing question: "How many StarvinStruthers does it take to TAS H.E.R.O. for the Atari 2600?" Turns out, one.
Player (175)
Joined: 8/15/2015
Posts: 56
Location: USA
LMFAO
Post subject: Re: #5381: StarvinStruthers's A2600 H.E.R.O. in 09:58.04
Player (26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
Nice run! I hope somebody will also run this port of the game...
Player (175)
Joined: 8/15/2015
Posts: 56
Location: USA
holy shit thats a really cool looking port of hero.. i did not know that hero went beyond the a2600.. i'm sad that hero didn't get the popularity that pitfall did
Alyosha
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Posts: 2831
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Nice work improving this. Now we can have the 'O' back in POWER! voting yes.
Challenger
He/Him
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Joined: 2/23/2016
Posts: 1061
I played this game several times on my old computer when I was a kid! That new improvements is unexpected for me. Yes vote!
My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.
Player (175)
Joined: 8/15/2015
Posts: 56
Location: USA
Alyosha wrote:
Nice work improving this. Now we can have the 'O' back in POWER! voting yes.
tyty !!
Player (175)
Joined: 8/15/2015
Posts: 56
Location: USA
Challenger wrote:
I played this game several times on my old computer when I was a kid! That new improvements is unexpected for me. Yes vote!
yeah seriously lol i was very confused when trying to find the missing door that i had blown up from the previous room i was looking at some premade maps of each stage and i could not for the life of me figure out where i was on the map because the door was missing and i had never recalled blowing it up the cool part is that you can easily do this glitch in real time (god help the soul that decides to rta this game) the "bomb skips" would not be so easy to pull off in real time though
Joined: 1/22/2012
Posts: 1
I hung out during most of the making of this TAS. Definitely top quality and a really entertaining watch. Looking forward to nagging struts into running/TASing C64 H.E.R.O..
Player (175)
Joined: 8/15/2015
Posts: 56
Location: USA
baldjared wrote:
I hung out during most of the making of this TAS. Definitely top quality and a really entertaining watch. Looking forward to nagging struts into running/TASing C64 H.E.R.O..
lol if i had a c64 i still wouldn't do it and i've got other projects to tas before i go back to hero rip the dream
Editor, Expert player (2073)
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Posts: 3282
Comparison video: Link to video This submission seems to be slower in a few spots, but I don't know how much is due to core emulation change. Anyway, nice work StarvinStruthers. Note to judge and publisher: The submission file should be replaced by the one in this post, which removed the empty input at the end. The final time should be around 9:51.00.
Player (175)
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Posts: 56
Location: USA
FractalFusion wrote:
Comparison video: This submission seems to be slower in a few spots, but I don't know how much is due to core emulation change. Anyway, nice work StarvinStruthers. Note to judge and publisher: The submission file should be replaced by the one in this post, which removed the empty input at the end. The final time should be around 9:51.00.
tyty fractal but yo i think it might seem slower because i'm dropping extra bombs in stages 1-6 unless you're referring to something else
Player (175)
Joined: 8/15/2015
Posts: 56
Location: USA
and after rewatching that video it does seem like a lag thing here and there extremely minor but still noticeable in some areas for the record there was no lag in this game i came across so it might be the emu yeah
Player (175)
Joined: 8/15/2015
Posts: 56
Location: USA
also i'm seeing in some spots you have better movement than me by however many frames i think sub 9:50 can happen it looks like every stage with left side horizontal rooms.. you absolutely shit on me
Editor, Expert player (2073)
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Posts: 3282
StarvinStruthers wrote:
but yo i think it might seem slower because i'm dropping extra bombs in stages 1-6 unless you're referring to something else
I've accounted for the dropping of extra bombs; each split happens after bombs have been added to the bonus, right before the next stage appears. However, some of the stage time differences appear to be in favor of the old submission. By the way, you can edit your previous post with the edit button on the top right of your last post if nobody else has posted yet, instead of posting two or three times straight over a very short period.
Player (175)
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Posts: 56
Location: USA
do you still have your hero tasproj? maybe strats can be combined for better tas?
Editor, Expert player (2073)
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StarvinStruthers wrote:
do you still have your hero tasproj? maybe strats can be combined for better tas?
I never used tasproj at the time (and to this date I still haven't). If you want a tasproj of my TAS, it will have to be generated from scratch (but it shouldn't take long to do, just open the TAS in TAStudio and let it run). Also, the movie only seems to work on older versions of BizHawk (such as 1.5.3, the emulator I used to dump the AVI to make the comparison movie).
Player (175)
Joined: 8/15/2015
Posts: 56
Location: USA
um ok well then let this be the start of a thousand questions.. so i need to download bizhawk 1.5.3? download your bkm? and it will just run no problem? never heard of a bkm but i assume its about the same as bk2 that being said i dont know how to get a bk2 to play on tastudio i've only been able to get tasproj to run on tastudio reminder i'm new there's no way to get your tas to work on the latest bizhawk? is this due to the emu lag and inputs getting desynced or for other reasons?
Alyosha
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StarvinStruthers wrote:
um ok well then let this be the start of a thousand questions.. so i need to download bizhawk 1.5.3? download your bkm? and it will just run no problem? never heard of a bkm but i assume its about the same as bk2 that being said i dont know how to get a bk2 to play on tastudio i've only been able to get tasproj to run on tastudio reminder i'm new there's no way to get your tas to work on the latest bizhawk? is this due to the emu lag and inputs getting desynced or for other reasons?
Atari 2600 emulation got an overhaul a few months back. It won't be easy to sync the former run on any newer builds. Yes you should be able to run the bkm in 1.5.3. Bkm is the precursor (or maybe just renamed) bk2. I'm not sure what utility you'll get out of this though. To get a bk2 to play in tastudio just open the bk2 and then open tastudio (or the other way around works too.) TAStudio will automatically import the bk2 into a TASproj.
Player (175)
Joined: 8/15/2015
Posts: 56
Location: USA
ok i must have done something wrong the first time i tried opening a bk2 in tastudio because i just tried it and it worked no problem ty alyosha i will see about making some comparisons i assume i'll be able to run both versions of bizhawk at the same time if not.. this might be kind of tough
Player (175)
Joined: 8/15/2015
Posts: 56
Location: USA
ok so i've immediately noticed a difference.. biz 1.5.3 allows the reset input at frame 2 biz 1.11.9.1 allows reset input at frame 6 4 frame difference biz 1.5.3 power bar fills up at frame 112 biz 1.11.9.1 power bar fills up at frame 118 6 frame difference not sure where those 2 frames went at any rate.. should the tas be remade on biz 1.5.3? which version of biz most accurately emulates atari 2600?
Patashu
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AFAIK Bizhawk got a lot better at emulating atari 2600 in the most recent version so you'll want to do all testing and comparisons on that.
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu