Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Rockman EXE WS is a WonderSwan Color game of the Rockman EXE/Mega Man Battle Network series. Unusually for that series, this game is a platformer (most MMBN games, including all of the main ones, are RPGs). This means MegaMan.EXE gets to jump, shoot and slide his way through a bunch of stages as if he is the main universe Mega Man.
Unlike the typical Mega Man setup, this game does not allow you to choose what order you beat each stage in. However, it does feature branching paths in most of the stages, each with their own bosses and upgrades. Thus, there is still some element of routing involved.
This game is designed for replayability, as the branching means you have to beat the game twice to visit all areas, and the game allows you to restart the story with all previous upgrades after clearing it. This is required for many items, and beating the game a second time with all alternate branches opens up a final stage with a new final boss, as well as allows you to acquire several more items (battle chips and style changes). A 100% run would have a lot to do. On the bright side, the game is rather short, so an any% TAS that just clears the game once will be fairly short as well.
The game has six stages, or seven on a second playthrough if all areas are cleared. The second, third, fourth and fifth stages all branch into two, allowing a choice of which boss to fight.
Stage 1: FireMan.EXE
Stage 2: ElecMan.EXE / ColorMan.EXE
Stage 3: MagicMan.EXE / PharaohMan.EXE
Stage 4: BombMan.EXE / SnakeMan.EXE
Stage 5: FireMan.EXE / ElecMan.EXE (again)
Stage 6: ProtoMan.EXE and Life Virus (you fight both, no branch here)
(Stage 7: Gospel - not seen in any%)
So far I'm following the route of real-time speedrunners, which is FireMan - ColorMan - PharaohMan - BombMan - FireMan - ProtoMan+Life Virus. Important in this route is getting the BodyBurn battle chip in PharaohMan's stage, which allows MegaMan to dash through enemies, dash in mid-air, and move faster than sliding speed. Also, getting the Sword chip in stage 3 to defeat some bosses faster.
Here's a WIP of Stage 1:
Link to videoRockman.PIE
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
WIP 2:
Link to videoColorMan.PIE
I manipulated two M-Cannon chip drops in the first stage, and they (as well as two starter chips, Cannon and ShokWave) are used here to speed up the bossfight. The chip menu is automatically opened between every stage, which is helpful because it means I don't have to spend time opening the menu in-stage for these chips, and this way it only takes less than a third of a second to set them all. Otherwise, some of these chips might not even have been worth the time to set them.
I really like the way the boss battle looks here, using uncharged shots, charged shots, and the four chips mentioned above all to dismantle ColorMan.EXE quickly and seamlessly.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Very nice WIP so far. Don't see any obvious improvements. Did you try getting Invis from the Spookys in FireMan's stage? We use it for LifeVirus, a TAS might have another option. Though even then that opens up the possibility to use Invis elsewhere.
Also, kid found a thing for the SMB3 screws in FireManV2's stage: https://www.twitch.tv/lilxxfatkidxx/v/85571213 not consistent for RTA, but should look good in a TAS.
If you have any questions, or want to discuss strats for a stage. Let me know. Looks like you've got a good handle on everything so far though.
Keep it up :)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Thanks for your reply! Your RTA record run has been very helpful to me so far for routing, planning etc. (as have lilfatkid, and some others)
I did try for Invis with the Spookys in the first stage, but wasn't able to get it without losing several frames to getting the right RNG for it, so I opted to see if I could get one in a later stage. In hindsight, it probably would be worth it anyway to save time somewhere, but it's hard to tell where the optimal location for that would be without getting a TAS through the whole game first. I may save this for a second iteration of the TAS. EDIT: I tried to go for the Invis again in the first stage, but wasn't able to get it in a reasonable timeframe at all, so I'm leaving it as it is for now.
Regarding LifeVirus, I did a test on that fight, and a TAS won't be needing Invis for anything there. The laser can be jumped over with strict timing (and positioning MegaMan outside the initial sphere) while still continuously attacking it with swords without delay. It won't be necessary for the shield either, since LifeVirus is invincible while the shield is up, so I won't need to be touching the shield either. More likely, Invis would be used somewhere in a stage where I would do a lot of damage boosts otherwise.
That screw trick looks pretty helpful indeed, thanks for sharing.
Now, here's another WIP, with stage 3 done:
Link to videoPharaohMan.PIE
I found a trick where MegaMan sometimes can jump on the first frame after ending a BodyBurn in the air. It's a bit situational, but one interesting application I've found of it is that it's possible to get the WideSwrd in stage 4 without having to kill yourself (or getting AirShoes). Depending on how much time it takes to do this, I might grab it and use it for later boss battles (it takes more time to set it in-stage than it would save against BombMan), or possibly even remove getting the Sword chip out of the run entirely. WideSwrd does a bit more damage compared to Sword (30 damage vs 25 damage), so it would save a few hits against some bosses.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Do you know how the RNG works in this game? Is it purely frame based?
Looking forward to that Life Virus fight.
Nice stage. Love all the backwards damage boosts. Watching these is giving me ideas for RTA as well.
Cutting out sword for WideSwrd would be pretty cool. Between BombMan, FireManV2, ProtoMan, and Life Virus, the extra menu should be made back?
One small question, why equip both Atk+40's? If you have multiples of the same chip, using one won't clear it from your buttons, it'll keep using them from your pack until you run out.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Tterraj42 wrote:
Do you know how the RNG works in this game? Is it purely frame based?
I haven't figured out all of the workings yet, but it is mostly frame-based, although it is slightly manipulatable by delaying a room transition or destroying an enemy and having them drop a chip. There isn't really an easy or time-efficient way of luck manipulation.
Tterraj42 wrote:
Cutting out sword for WideSwrd would be pretty cool. Between BombMan, FireManV2, ProtoMan, and Life Virus, the extra menu should be made back?
The extra menu would only really make a difference for BombMan, as I otherwise get a free menu between each stage. But yes, between skipping the Sword, saving a few hits on BombMan, and being able to one-hit some enemies such as the Flappy enemies in BombMan's stage (there's a stairs-part that makes BodyBurn impractical there) with the attack boost, the extra menu midway stage 4 will be made back.
Tterraj42 wrote:
One small question, why equip both Atk+40's? If you have multiples of the same chip, using one won't clear it from your buttons, it'll keep using them from your pack until you run out.
I actually realized this afterwards, and that this would significantly affect some strategies, so I redid the run from the start of stage 1 (which is why progress has been slow lately). I also saved some frames on improved movement along the way. The new strategy is to load MegaMan up with 5 ShokWaves (four from the Mettaurs in the first stage), 2 Cannons (from the Octons in ColorMan's stage) and 2 M-Cannons (from the Canodumbs in stage 1, as in the previous WIP) for ColorMan, completely eliminating the need to use uncharged shots. This saves two seconds there. Skipping the sword in Stage 3 also saves another two seconds. So now I'm back at the start of stage 4 with about 340 frames of improvement over the previous WIPs. Not sure if I'll upload a WIP of the redone stages 1 to 3 or not, other than getting chips, the ColorMan fight, and skipping the Sword they're not really different, it might be nice to leave them as a bit of a surprise for the submission :)
I also tested some more things up ahead by this point. For stage 5, going for FireMan instead of ElecMan will save around 10-11 seconds in that stage, and I don't think I would be able to save that much with ElecBrother style in stage 6. The upgraded slide is marginally faster than the BodyBurn on average. For reference, normal slide speed is 24, ElecBrother slide speed is 30, and BodyBurn averages at around 28.3 (units are in 16th of pixels per frame; BodyBurn goes 16 speed for 12 frames, then 32 speed for 40 frames). It will save some time, but I don't think enough time to be worth it. I also have attack strategies planned out for BombMan and FireManV2. BombMan will mostly be WideSwrd'ed, and FireManV2 will see a lot of chips being used between charged shots like ColorMan. ProtoMan and LifeVirus will probably be mostly WideSwrd'ed too. I'll need to see how many Atk+20 (or maybe even +40) I can get for those. For both of them, one +20 will save two hits.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
I see. I'm trying to find a good start time to increase the odds of getting an Invis drop, since RTA doesn't start till you start the game.
Those Flappy are annoying. I don't know any health or damage values, so it's neat to see how things will change when you can kill them instead of having to dodge / burner them all.
Oh nice, looking forward to the redone stages!
The final stage definitely has opportunities for Atk+40's. I think the Puffy and Fishy2 enemies both drop them. So you could end up with quite a few.
Do you think ElecMan would be faster than ColorMan? Kid was talking to me about it early and wondered if it would be in a TAS setting. I doubt it'd be much of a difference, and I'd hate to see another restart. Just curious if it was tested.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Tterraj42 wrote:
I see. I'm trying to find a good start time to increase the odds of getting an Invis drop, since RTA doesn't start till you start the game.
I don't think the RNG is consistent enough in real-time to be able to pull that off. Entering a room a few frames earlier or later can throw off the whole pattern.
Tterraj42 wrote:
Those Flappy are annoying. I don't know any health or damage values, so it's neat to see how things will change when you can kill them instead of having to dodge / burner them all.
There's a GameFAQs guide to items and enemies, which contains a good amount of relevant information for this. It's not perfect, but can get you a long way.
Tterraj42 wrote:
Oh nice, looking forward to the redone stages!
Thanks!
Tterraj42 wrote:
The final stage definitely has opportunities for Atk+40's. I think the Puffy and Fishy2 enemies both drop them. So you could end up with quite a few.
I noticed this in a testrun. I'd have to equip the Atk+40's mid-stage as I don't have any opportunity anymore of getting them before stage 6 (and using the two (easily) available ones at the PharaohMan battle still saves more time), but if I get a good few of them it will still be worth it.
Tterraj42 wrote:
Do you think ElecMan would be faster than ColorMan? Kid was talking to me about it early and wondered if it would be in a TAS setting. I doubt it'd be much of a difference, and I'd hate to see another restart. Just curious if it was tested.
I did test that, ElecMan turned out to be around 600 frames slower.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
It's been a while (after way too much time redoing previous stages), but I'm now done with stage 4:
Link to videoBombMan.PIE
Note that because of all the redoings and some strategy changes, this WIP does not match up with the previous WIPs anymore. The chip layout at the start is different, and I now don't have the Sword which I previously got in stage 3. The WideSwrd is better anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Nice! It's so satisfying seeing these stages beat so optimally.
Been doing some offline RTA recordings. Got a 13:13, but had some mistakes I'm not happy with, so I may try to improve it. 13:0X is definitely doable. It's just so easy to make small mistakes that kill the run.
I look forward to the next stage, it's going to be an interesting one.
Here's the 13:13 run, though there's nothing new in it I think: https://youtu.be/i4IwC4auVpg
how does style change work in this game?got curious by the end of the wip.
TAS i'm interested:
Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS?
i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
grassini wrote:
how does style change work in this game?got curious by the end of the wip.
You unlock a fixed style change after defeating certain bosses. AquaCustom after BombMan or WoodShield after SnakeMan in stage 4, HeatGuts after FireManV2 or ElecBrother after ElecManV2 in stage 5. Once you get them, you're free to switch styles any time. The elemental part means MegaMan's charge shot will do double damage against enemies weak to it, and MegaMan will take more damage from the element his style is weak to and less damage from the element it is strong to. Furthermore each style has some unique properties; AquaCustom has a shorter charge time, WoodShield reduces damage, HeatGuts increases buster damage, and ElecBrother increases movement and sliding speed.
Normally in RTA any%, only AquaCustom is used, because it's effective against FireManV2 in the next stage. For this TAS I've considered getting ElecBrother in stage 5 instead for the movement bonus in stage 6, but it takes around 10-11 more seconds to do ElecManV2's stage as opposed to FireManV2's and I'm not sure if I'd be able to make up for that much in stage 6 (I've given some more details and numbers in this post). So it's looking like I'll be following the RTAs in using AquaCustom, because it speeds up the FireManV2 fight.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
WIP 5, the last WIP before submission, is up:
Link to videoFireManV2.PIE
The FireManV2 bossfight is kind of dumb. There are two possible patterns for him to start with; one is to shoot fireballs, and the other is to shoot a fire shockwave along the ground. During the latter, he doesn't take special hitstun from strong attacks (which would take 76 frames of invincibility rather than 32, and change his attack pattern into doing a two-sided fire shockwave that also gets in the way a lot), so that's the more efficient pattern, but after the fire shockwave he'll jump with a flaming sword and then jump again, and around this time is where I get his HP to zero. However, bosses don't start their death animation/dialogue until they hit the ground, which means that the battle is effectively stuck on a frame rule. I could've used an Atk+20 to defeat him with one hit less here, but it would make barely a difference, so I finish him off with an uncharged buster shot instead. Looks sort of silly and inefficient, but the chip is better used later on. And the alternative boss attack pattern would still have been even slower.
Still, the battle is plenty fast, with all the charged Aqua shots, SoniWaves and M-Cannons that I've stocked up for this fight. There were various ways to go about using all of these weapons, but this pattern I ended up with ended up being most efficient - focused a bit more on getting as many charged Aqua shots out as possible, having the buster charge time as a limited factor most of the time, instead of boss invincibility.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
