(Link to video)
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Well then... Hello again, I hope you enjoy your stay, to watch this Tekken Advanced TAS.

Thingos

  • Bios: SCPH7003 (NTSC-U bios)
  • Hardest Difficulty
  • Manipulates things

Nina?

Everyone sucks but her, yup.
The fights are improved in this TAS.

Music?

Tekken 1 was never intended to go for IGT and it was more focus on TAStime, the Music was selected out for the quicker loads.
Fog: It shouldn't Tekken me long to judge this.
Fog: Some interesting discussions have been had regarding the way this submission ends it's input (to show how much of a bad game Tekken was). However, we have multiple publications which end input early, while letting the game finish itself out. The judge guidelines have also accounted for this, and is perfectly acceptable for the goals it has gone for. With all of this considered, I'm accepting this as an improvement to the previous publication!
Fog: Resetting the judgement, someone else can judge this run.
Samsara: TEK. KYOOOOON. TRIPLE SIX, FIVE, FOUR, JUDGING.
Samsara: After careful frame-by-frame review of the submission and some consultation with the author, I've determined that there is actually gameplay improvement in the run itself: If you pay attention to the in-game time just before the Heihachi fight, you'll see that it's 0.19 seconds lower (estimating 12 frames at 60fps) than what it is in the published run. This more than makes up for the 3-4 extra frames needed to disable the music in the first place.
The options of disabling the in-game music and ending input early are ultimately stylistic choices that don't affect the judgement of the movie. It is a Vault movie, so these choices affecting entertainment is ultimately meaningless, and the choice of early input end for a real-time focused run does mesh more nicely.
Therefore, I am backing up Fog's judgement and re-accepting this as an improvement to the currently published run.
feos: YES I WILL!!!
Spikestuff: Ok.

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Posted: 6/5/2016 9:56 PM
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TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #5133: Spikestuff's PSX Tekken in 01:38.92
Posted: 6/6/2016 1:07 AM
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theenglishman
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Sorry Spike, I'm gonna have to vote No on this one. Fighting TASes featuring characters that have one insanely overpowered move just aren't very fun to watch, and Nina's isn't even a OHKO. Also no "* Fights Law and wins" joke in your submission text.
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Posted: 6/6/2016 2:37 AM
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c-square
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It was a 'Meh' all the way until the last fight when you ended input early. Seeing Heihachi continuously failing to hit a helpless Nina, and then to have her stand up and him yell in defeat when time ended was hilarious. Yes vote!
Posted: 6/6/2016 3:44 AM
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arandomgameTASer
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Giving it a Meh this time around.
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Posted: 6/6/2016 7:28 AM
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AKheon
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Kind of fun and short TAS. Felt nostalgia for the run finale that makes Heihachi look highly inept once again. You can really feel the impotent rage and deep shame in his scream as he faints from sheer humiliation. I guess it all deserves a weak 'yes'.
Posted: 6/6/2016 9:19 AM
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electricslide
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Hilarious ending.
Posted: 6/6/2016 8:48 PM
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fsvgm777
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So this is an interesting case. On the one hand, if going by frame count alone, this is indeed faster than the currently published TAS. On the other hand, however, the faster time is achieved by timing out the fight against Heihachi. This in turn means that, if we count in post-input gameplay (the ~35 seconds after Nina executed her last move), this movie is slower than the currently published TAS. There has been at least one precedent (Magician Lord, though the three minute waiting period on the previously published TAS produced the opposite effect of killing the pacing, whereas it's not quite the case here, since there are people who seem to like it). To me, this TAS is slower gameplay-wise, simply because the fight is still going (and thus counts as gameplay) after Nina executes her last move. Not to mention the ending sequence is reached slower due to the timeout.
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Posted: 6/7/2016 2:14 AM
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Spikestuff
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fsvgm777 wrote:
-paralleling with the same things I hated about the Tekken Advanced TAS-
And here's a userfile completing input. JUDGE FOG, DO NOT REPLACE.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
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Posted: 6/7/2016 3:50 AM
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BigBoct
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Based on the comments, "Heihachi can't hit someone laying down and not moving" has happened before, but damned if I can remember where. Anyone feel like cluing me in? Also, was there much luck manipulation required before ending input to find a Heihachi pattern that failed to inflict sufficient damage?
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Posted: 6/7/2016 6:29 AM
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Warp
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I'm not sure I like the notion of making the playthrough be significantly longer just for the sake of making the input file slightly shorter. After all, the goal of speedrunning is to reach the end as fast as possible. This doesn't reach the end as fast as possible. Thus, in that sense, I would consider this suboptimal. I think this is a rather unfortunate consequence of us measuring the length of the TAS by looking at the input file, rather than at the game. This is one of the rare cases where I would actually vote "no" for publication. But since the poll question isn't asking that, my only recourse is to abstain from voting.
Posted: 6/7/2016 7:47 AM
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andypanther
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I'm sort of fascinated by the concept of ending input early, just letting the game beat itself. If there actually is no more imput required to reach the end, why not?
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Posted: 6/7/2016 8:31 AM
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Cooljay
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Considering this movie is still a major improvement from the previous movie, and not just because of cutting the input short(As seen by comparing the In Game Timers of the fights in both movies). I believe it should still be guaranteed to be accepted. Whether it should be obsoleted for In Game Time is something that can be dealt with by the author after publication. As for the entertainment factor. I only think the Heihachi part was interesting. So meh for me.
Posted: 6/7/2016 6:38 PM
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Warp
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andypanther wrote:
If there actually is no more imput required to reach the end, why not?
I suppose it all comes down to the question of how you measure the length of a speedrun. My understanding (although I haven't checked) is that in unassisted speedrunning timing is based on when a certain point in the game is reached. It doesn't matter if the runner stops touching the mouse and keyboard (or gamepad) before that moment. Our way of measuring the length of the run is practical because it's very easy and unambiguous to automate, but it has the unfortunate consequence of allowing making some runs slower than they could be. If it were an unassisted run, it would never be accepted as "faster" than another run that reaches the end of the game in a shorter time. Measuring the length of the run by its input file is practical, but I'm not sure this should be "abused" in this manner. Sure, it can be technically interesting and amusing... but is it really the fastest completion of the game?
Posted: 6/7/2016 6:43 PM
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FractalFusion
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I've seen that "end input early and let the game beat itself" thing too often in the past to be excited about it nowadays. Many times it comes across as a cheap gag that will never be funny more than once. At least this TAS is uninspiring enough that it justifies using this trick to raise its entertainment. The other thing which no one else (other than Spikestuff) commented on was removing the music for quicker loads. I mean, sure, a TASer has the right to do everything to post the smallest possible time on the submission thread's title, but cutting out the music for that? Really? So, of the ~5.5 seconds that this TAS appears to improve over the previous, only a tiny fraction of it is actual gameplay improvement.
Posted: 6/9/2016 9:01 AM
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Noxxa
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I think FractalFusion brings up a fair point, and one that shouldn't be ignored when judging (looking at the judge message). Turning off the music to save loading time. In my personal opinion, this is an incredibly degenerate way of saving frames, with no noticeable difference (taking about half a second at best off a loading screen that lasts several seconds is not noticeable), while having no impact on gameplay and negatively affecting the viewing experience of the movie by cutting out the music. At the very least, it does not constitute an improvement (by TASVideos rules, only differences in gameplay are judged), but for the sake of viewer experience I would consider not accepting runs that do this at all. (Note that there is a Vault rule for "rectifiable presentation decisions" that can render a movie ineligible; I'd argue that cutting out sound or music for no gameplay-based reason could qualify)
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 6/9/2016 9:38 AM
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feos
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While music would really be better, and it shouldn't be a factor of optimality in such cases, I don't think it gets any close to "sickening camera angles, seizure inducing activity" in how badly it affects entertainment. I'd leave such decisions to the author, while generally preferring having music in such cases.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 6/9/2016 3:25 PM
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ALAKTORN
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Removing the music saves lag frames in literally every game that exists on the planet. It’s probably something that would get lame really quickly if people started abusing it.
Posted: 6/9/2016 3:27 PM
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arandomgameTASer
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ALAKTORN wrote:
Removing the music saves lag frames in literally every game that exists on the planet. It’s probably something that would get lame really quickly if people started abusing it.
I agree, but like said before it depends on the length of the run. If the game is like 2 hours and it saves 30 frames then of course it shouldn't be done.
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Posted: 6/9/2016 3:29 PM
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feos
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ALAKTORN wrote:
Removing the music saves lag frames in literally every game that exists on the planet. It’s probably something that would get lame really quickly if people started abusing it.
They won't if it isn't consider an optimality factor. Same as ending input early. Neither is more optimal, the author can choose.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 6/9/2016 3:35 PM
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ALAKTORN
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arandomgameTASer wrote:
ALAKTORN wrote:
Removing the music saves lag frames in literally every game that exists on the planet. It’s probably something that would get lame really quickly if people started abusing it.
I agree, but like said before it depends on the length of the run. If the game is like 2 hours and it saves 30 frames then of course it shouldn't be done.
True, I guess for short Vault runs like this it’s fine.
Posted: 6/10/2016 1:38 AM
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Samsara
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There are a couple Vaulted precedents for the "improvements" in this run: [2952] NES Nobunaga's Ambition by CogneatoSwitch in 12:06.37 Disables sound entirely to speed it up. [2432] NES Defender of the Crown by £e Nécroyeur in 01:46.31 Ends input something like 50-60 seconds early. #4045: £e_Nécroyeur's NES Defender of the Crown "Fastest Game Completion" in 01:56.82 Uses only 10 extra seconds of input to end the full game as soon as possible, but it was rejected as an improvement. I think disabling music is fine for Vault runs, though I would personally treat it the same way as I would something like name entry or language choice: There still has to be a gameplay improvement on top of that. Ending input early is a bit of a mixed bag, I like it when it happens but I wouldn't consider it an actual gameplay improvement, so I'm a bit torn on this submission.
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Posted: 6/10/2016 5:07 AM
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feos
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Samsara wrote:
Ending input early is a bit of a mixed bag, I like it when it happens but I wouldn't consider it an actual gameplay improvement, so I'm a bit torn on this submission.
This is actually quite clear: http://tasvideos.org/JudgeGuidelines.html#InputLength
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 6/10/2016 12:55 PM
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KusogeMan
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the lack of music and other sound abuses are really ok in short runs,but pokemon for example never used the infamous red health sound to save time.
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Posted: 6/10/2016 3:02 PM
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ALAKTORN
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grassini wrote:
but pokemon for example never used the infamous red health sound to save time.
I know that was true in the past but is it still true in newer movies? I thought it was implemented in them.
Posted: 6/10/2016 7:59 PM
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FractalFusion
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ALAKTORN wrote:
grassini wrote:
but pokemon for example never used the infamous red health sound to save time.
I know that was true in the past but is it still true in newer movies? I thought it was implemented in them.
Still true now. Even the most recent Pokemon Gen 1 TAS doesn't use it.
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