Topic by moozooh

Posted: 12/27/2019 1:51 PM

Post subject: MAGICIAN LORD

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EZGames69

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While I’m at it: [2641] Arcade Magician Lord by £e_Nécroyeur in 07:17.73 I think this would also be great fir newcomers. It’s fast paced, fun movement, hilarious dialogue and glitches. It’s everything I could ever want in a TAS.

[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing

Posted: 12/28/2019 6:37 PM

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feos

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I'd like more discussion about both of these suggestions. Celeste is kinda asking for it, but still.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 12/28/2019 11:58 PM

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EZGames69

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I’ve mentioned this before when any% was posted, but currently Celeste is one of the more popular speedgames on src, and there’s a lot of interest in tases for this game, almost rivaling interest of SM64 tasing (Yeah it’s not NEARLY as big as SM64, but the community surrounding the game, both TASing and Speedrunning, is just as equally dedicated as SM64 tasers are).

[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing

Posted: 12/29/2019 12:09 AM

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Noxxa

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Celeste is a good pick because it's a much more modern game than almost everything else we have (despite the retro style) and therefore has more mainstream appeal, which is good for newcomers. Magician Lord has kind of the opposite issue, it's a very obscure arcade game and people aren't going to be familiar with it. It's a great movie, but I'm not sure how much it will catch the interest of new people.

http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.

Posted: 12/29/2019 12:39 AM

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ThunderAxe31

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Magician Lord is just too much obscure, on multiple levels. It's not just the game itself being little known, it's also the gameplay visually appearing too much simplified by the high levels of optimization, so it can't serve as a good showcase for newcomers. For example, the bosses die just too quickly, before anything could be observed.

my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"

Posted: 12/29/2019 6:39 AM
(Edited: 12/29/2019 6:47 AM)

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feos

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Gimmick and RMMI have the lowest rating on the list, so we could replace the former with Celeste and the latter with something else MM related.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 12/29/2019 6:43 AM

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EZGames69

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[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing

Posted: 12/29/2019 8:49 AM

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fsvgm777

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Hot take: I actually suggest we replace Majora's Mask with Celeste 100%, the main reason being that it's in a dire, dire need of a new TAS, because RTA runners can beat the game faster than this TAS does (the fastest one I can find is a 28:17 done on the Wii VC release of the game and a 38:10 done on console (which crashes during the credits sequence)). To me, it doesn't make sense to recommend a TAS to newcomers that has since been beaten by RTA runners.

Steam Community page - Bluesky profile Oh, I'm just a concerned observer.

Posted: 12/29/2019 9:17 AM

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ThunderAxe31

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I agree with fsvgm. While Majora's Mask has great ratings, it shows its age.

my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"

Posted: 12/30/2019 6:59 AM

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EZGames69

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While I also agree Majora’s Mask should be removed from newcomers, does this mean if a new tas for that category shows up, it has a chance of regaining the newcomers flag?

[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing

Posted: 12/30/2019 12:38 PM

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Noxxa

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EZGames69 wrote:

While I also agree Majora’s Mask should be removed from newcomers, does this mean if a new tas for that category shows up, it has a chance of regaining the newcomers flag?

It would be best to re-evaluate this on its own terms when or if such a movie is published. Note that one of the points that this topic was started on is that inheritance of the flag should not be a given, and it should be re-evaluated if a new movie still suits the flag well enough. For now, I do agree with removing the Majora's Mask movie. It's no longer a good representation of what a TAS movie of the game is supposed to be like in the present day.

http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.

Posted: 12/30/2019 3:36 PM

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Memory

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EZGames69 wrote:

For MM related, we could try this: [1925] SNES Mega Man & Bass "100 CDs" by sparky, parrot14gree & woabclf in 38:07.68

While I love this movie, I do feel that the game is a bit more obscure than its NES brethren and those games would better serve as recommended for newcomers than Mega Man & Bass. EDIT: Mega Man X could also be acceptable however.

[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours

[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero

Posted: 12/30/2019 5:12 PM

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Noxxa

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Memory wrote:

EZGames69 wrote:
For MM related, we could try this: [1925] SNES Mega Man & Bass "100 CDs" by sparky, parrot14gree & woabclf in 38:07.68
While I love this movie, I do feel that the game is a bit more obscure than its NES brethren and those games would better serve as recommended for newcomers than Mega Man & Bass. EDIT: Mega Man X could also be acceptable however.

I don't think MM&B should necessarily be dismissed as 'too obscure'. The game itself isn't massively popular but it's still a traditional Mega Man game (which more people will have familiarity with), and the TAS does a great job at dissecting the game more and more as Mega Man gets more weapons and more zipping/game-breaking techniques to work with. To me it looks like a great showcase of what kinds of things TASes are capable of that are otherwise clearly humanly impossible. NES MM1 and MM2 also are decent picks for the same reason, but I'm not sure if MM2 has as much TAS-"exclusive" content to show off, while MM1 depending on the run type tends to mangle the game beyond all comprehension. I feel like MM&B hits the sweetspot a bit better here. The Mega Man X movies don't really do much of the sort of glitching that these movies do, so that would be a different conversation entirely.

http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.

Posted: 12/30/2019 5:17 PM

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feos

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it's also #3 among all current Mega Men, not bad.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 12/30/2019 5:25 PM

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Noxxa

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feos wrote:

it's also #3 among all current Mega Men: http://tasvideos.org/Movies-Moons-Stars-Group21-RatingE.html

It's obviously a great movie in that regard but I'd like to point out that ratings shouldn't be the decisive factor between what qualifies a movie for this flag - it's important to consider that the audience for this flag is the exact opposite of the audience that actually rates our movies. What's most important is if the movie does a good job of showcasing what TASing can do to a game. Obviously a general level of entertainment helps to make a good picture, but consider what sort of experience it will provide for the newbie user specifically.

http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.

Posted: 3/15/2020 10:09 AM

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ThunderAxe31

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[4131] NES Mega Man by Shinryuu, pirohiko, Maru & finalfighter in 09:45.35 The movie speaks for itself, with all the improvements and the crazy glitching. I think we really need to put at least one Mega Man series movie, and right now there are none. This one looks like the perfect pick to me. Also the fact that it's a very recent publication is important, for the sake of staying updated with the TASing progresses.

my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"

Posted: 3/15/2020 12:21 PM

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EZGames69

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This was discussed before: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=486697#486697 The problem with flagging this movie is it’s difficult for newcomers to understand what happened when a level ends. And personally I find it really unsatisfying when a level just randomly ends. I would much rather have a movie that doesn’t use that end stage glitch get the flag and the star than this movie. I have already suggested giving the flag to Rockman & Bass as an alternative, I’d like to see more discussion on that.

[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing

Posted: 9/27/2020 2:16 AM

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primeElephant

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I would like to put my 2 cents in. Mega Man & Bass or Mega Man 1 are the only 2 Mega Man TAS's that make sense to be newcomer IMO. Mega Man & Bass is the sweet spot between clearly TAS only ridculoous movement and glitches without going into code manipulation territory, while Meg aMan 1 is literally the first TAS I watched like 10 years ago that made me even interested in TAS in the first place. Perhaps a Mega Man 1 TAS that doesn't manipulate the code (I don't know the technical term) but still has glitches would be a good candidate as well.

Posted: 9/27/2020 10:36 AM
(Edited: 9/30/2020 6:10 PM)

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feos

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[1925] SNES Mega Man & Bass "100 CDs" by sparky, parrot14gree & woabclf in 38:07.68 Crazy complexity and variety of movement techniques, including lots of zip weapon usage variations, cool playarounds. Still no insane corruption of memory or graphics, which makes it possible to understand what's going on. Very appealing game in general. The number of votes indicates how popular that movie is, and how well known the game is too. The only possible downside is that the movie is not a short one, but MM games in general don't use to have movies shorter than 20 minutes. Significantly shorter than the human record anyway. [1739] SNES Mega Man & Bass "Mega Man" by sparky in 27:21.47 [1742] SNES Mega Man & Bass "Bass" by sparky in 28:08.23 These have a lot of similarities with "100 CDs", but they're a bit shorter and somewhat more simplistic overall, since mainline gameplay that they're limited to doesn't require the amount and level of craziness the full completion movie involves. Closer to human record as well. [4006] NES Mega Man 2 by Shinryuu, aglasscage & finalfighter in 23:44.50 Comparable to MMB "100 CDs" but feels like an 8-bit version of the TAS itself, not just the game. The game is simpler, and the movement is generally simpler, weapon usage and zips are arguably less intense. In some places the zips are actually heavier because you can't understand what's going on anymore due to level layout not aligning with graphics. Great run but it doesn't feel as exquisite as "100 CDs" imo. [4057] NES Mega Man 2 "zipless" by warmCabin in 27:16.17 I think this is the most straightforward-looking run of top MMs. It's even more straightforward than human records. Seems to be enjoyable for the TAS people who're tired of the glitchiness of MM2, but I don't think it showcases as many of obvious TAS-only techniques as other runs of the franchise. [3010] NES Mega Man 4 by Tiancaiwhr in 32:02.60 Something between MM2 and MM2 Zipless. Loved escaping from the boss rush through the wall, but overall I can't call that movie mind-blowing. Which was the original criterion I assigned this flag by. [4131] NES Mega Man by Shinryuu, pirohiko, Maru & finalfighter in 09:45.35 Now this was intense! It's definitely the craziest NES MM TAS in terms of glitches, and it has great variety of them. Unexpected stuff kept happening until the very end. One downside is that it's so crazy that a lot of it may look rather confusing to people who don't know what a TAS is, while my enjoyment from that movie is after all I've seen over the years. The ending is a masterpiece too! It has glitch art, it has Zalgo, it has ironic text, and the final shot is perfect, even though I've seen it before, it still made me laugh. This is mind-blowing IMO, yet maybe too crazy. [3151] SNES Mega Man X by nrg_zam in 29:08.45 [3197] SNES Mega Man X "100%" by Hetfield90 in 33:07.13 [2978] SNES Mega Man X2 by Hetfield90 in 31:06.34 [3250] SNES Mega Man X2 "100%" by Hetfield90, FractalFusion, hidaigai, nrg_zam & GoddessMaria in 32:57.64 High profile MMX play but almost no obvious glitches. I don't think that alone will blow newcomers' minds and MMB won't. [1812] Wii Mega Man 10 "Mega Man" by diggidoyo in 33:42.37 [2005] Wii Mega Man 10 "Bass, Hard Mode" by diggidoyo in 28:18.25 [2969] Wii Mega Man 9 by AngerFist & diggidoyo in 30:20.98 Same as MMX. To be continued...

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 9/28/2020 2:05 AM

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primeElephant

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Oh and when I said Mega Man & Bass I meant 100 CDs. Honestly the length is deceptive, a lot of that can just be skipped because it's cutscenes with no game play. It defintely doesn't feel like it drags at all. EDIT: And also a run that's literally feature lenght movie length is already newcomer recommended so I really don't think a run a third the length of Yoshi's world should be not counted due to length.

Posted: 9/30/2020 6:29 PM

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feos

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Flagged "100 CDs" in the end.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 1/8/2021 2:42 PM

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EZGames69

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Recently [4373] Wii Super Smash Bros. Brawl "The Subspace Emissary, 1 player" by DyllonStej in 1:10:05.60 was suggested for stars and it was suggested that it should take the star from Melee’s TAS. I think since that movie also contains the newcomers flag, I might as well suggest this new Brawl tas to also inherit the flag.

[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing

Posted: 1/8/2021 2:51 PM

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Noxxa

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EZGames69 wrote:

Recently [4373] Wii Super Smash Bros. Brawl "The Subspace Emissary, 1 player" by DyllonStej in 1:10:05.60 was suggested for stars and it was suggested that it should take the star from Melee’s TAS. I think since that movie also contains the newcomers flag, I might as well suggest this new Brawl tas to also inherit the flag.

Per the first post in this topic, the Recommended for Newcomers flag should not be directly passed on and inherited by other movies, particularly when crossing entirely different games with different goals and scopes. That's treating it as a status symbol, not as selecting the movie based on its suitability for the flag. There's a massive difference between presenting an 8-minute movie and a 70-minute one. I can think of a few reasons that Brawl Subspace could get a Newcomers flag, but they are different from the reasons that got the Melee Adventure TAS the RfN flag to begin with.

http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.

Posted: 1/8/2021 2:57 PM

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EZGames69

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Fair enough.

[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing

Posted: 1/14/2021 5:49 PM

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feos

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Mothrayas wrote:

There's a massive difference between presenting an 8-minute movie and a 70-minute one.

Watched all 3 and I think this is the main reason for SSBB to not get the flag. There's more awesome content in its entirety, but it's just too long to serve as a first-time showcase. SSBM is almost 9 times shorter, but it's very slightly less impressive, if at all.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

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