Joined: 8/22/2008
Posts: 118
Location: KUUSANKOSKI, Finland
You all know what they say about opinions: It's like a bunghole, everyone has one.
So here comes one:
Regarding the Wonder Boy III runs...
There's something wrong with the current Vault mechanism, if runs that different can obsolote eachother.
Other is any% and other is 100% bosses and no-warp.
I'm not too familiar with the system used here so I won't suggest any fix. But obviously something should be done.
trazz wrote:
Killing the skeletons sooner or letting the skeletons live (unlive?) won't affect that at all.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
The problem with the Wonder Boy III runs is that, categorically, they are the same. One is any%, and the other is any% but slower.
The Vault does leave open room for 100% categories that show off more of the game, but they have to be actual 100% categories, not "any% but slower".
And alternatively, the Moons tier allows for more arbitrary categories like "all stages" or "beat all bosses", but for that, the run has to qualify by entertainment value. According to the ratings for the obsoleted movie, it does not.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
...the Vault tier (which I'd still love to be renamed to Coins).
Off topic, but I like this idea. Keeps in line with using Mario 'power-ups' as the tier labels.
I personally find the Vault tier to be just fine as it is. The point of the tier was to accept any (or most) games on the site for record purposes. Naming it "Vault" makes sense because it acts as a archive for records on fastest completion and fastest 100% completion. I dont see how "Coins" would fit that description, and it might just cause confusion for a lot of people.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
EZGames69 wrote:
DrD2k9 wrote:
feos wrote:
...the Vault tier (which I'd still love to be renamed to Coins).
Off topic, but I like this idea. Keeps in line with using Mario 'power-ups' as the tier labels.
I personally find the Vault tier to be just fine as it is. The point of the tier was to accept any (or most) games on the site for record purposes. Naming it "Vault" makes sense because it acts as a archive for records on fastest completion and fastest 100% completion. I dont see how "Coins" would fit that description, and it might just cause confusion for a lot of people.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
...the Vault tier (which I'd still love to be renamed to Coins).
Off topic, but I like this idea. Keeps in line with using Mario 'power-ups' as the tier labels.
I personally find the Vault tier to be just fine as it is. The point of the tier was to accept any (or most) games on the site for record purposes. Naming it "Vault" makes sense because it acts as a archive for records on fastest completion and fastest 100% completion. I dont see how "Coins" would fit that description, and it might just cause confusion for a lot of people.
I could barely find anyone that actually supported the renaming of Vault to coins, other than that one reply that was at the bottom of the first page.
and plus, that poll option shows more people are in favor of keeping it as is instead of renaming it, this is even after Moth Reseted the poll.
I'm not convinced that most users actually want it.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
"Most users" comes from my unfixed post which comes from my 4-year-old memory. There has been discussion about how could existing problems with the Vault tier be fixed, and this name was a part of the most supported idea. Renaming doesn't magically fix a lot of things, it only fixes some. Not fixing anything was the most supported option of the poll, but polls don't reflect a lot of aspects either. While during actual discussion opinions may evolve and people can come up with improvements to others' ideas.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
"Most users" comes from my unfixed post which comes from my 4-year-old memory. There has been discussion about how could existing problems with the Vault tier be fixed, and this name was a part of the most supported idea. Renaming doesn't magically fix a lot of things, it only fixes some. Not fixing anything was the most supported option of the poll, but polls don't reflect a lot of aspects either. While during actual discussion opinions may evolve and people can come up with improvements to others' ideas.
I still dont see how renaming it to "Coins" is going to solve issues without causing more issues. first off, the name "Vault" is pretty straight forward in its definition. it's for keeping records and archives of fastest completions or fastest 100% completions of games.
The Moons/Star tiers imply that these runs are more special than just simply being a fast completion of the game. they are more entertaining than that. An argument I hear about naming Vault to "Coins" is to make the tier system Mario themed. However this site isn't MARIOVideos, it's TASVideos. We do more than just Mario games here, that's why we don't have Mario as our mascot as opposed to Mega Man.
And as much as you want to try to make the lowest tier seem more interesting to the general audience, that's practically impossible, as we as humans will always look at the lowest level as being "inferior".
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
And as much as you want to try to make the lowest tier seem more interesting to the general audience, that's practically impossible, as we as humans will always look at the lowest level as being "inferior".
Where do I say I want that?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
I agree with EZGames69. I don't think "coins" is a good label. I have a few issues with it:
• It is in itself a very undescriptive label. "Vault" makes sense for a tier whose purpose is archival of records. "Coin" says absolutely nothing. Oh yeah, it's a common item in Mario games...okay? It's too outlandish as a reference. It would be impossible for a site lurker to understand its purpose without having to read up on a page or two.
• The Super Mario World connection isn't even that obvious, because star and moon are both primarily known as celestial objects, and their role as such is used to describe their relative greatness (see also below point). Even if their icons are based from Mario games, their role isn't. "Coins" don't really fit in this comparison role here - they're just there being a reference for the sake of being a reference.
• Even within that connection, the tier ordering doesn't even make sense. In Super Mario World, a Moon (3-Up) is rarer and more valuable than a Star. If our entire tier naming scheme were to be named after a specific game, it should at least not contradict the actual hierarchy within said game.
feos wrote:
EZGames69 wrote:
An argument I hear about naming Vault to "Coins" is to make the tier system Mario themed. However this site isn't MARIOVideos, it's TASVideos.
Yes, we use graphics from Mario for some icons and some background elements. Do we really need to start naming our movie structure after it as well? Does everything have to be a Mario reference?
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
