New tricks, more precision and tricks from the newest Sonic run combine to a movie that is 00:57.82 faster than the previous version.
This run uses the 2.1.1 version of Pu7o's Miles 'Tails' Prower in Sonic the Hedgehog hack.

Game objectives

Comments

Here are the improved acts:
ActNew timeOld timeSavings
Green Hill 30:26::550:28::15-80
Marble 10:10::250:13::23-178
Marble 20:10::570:14::19-202
Marble 30:25::440:27::08-84
Labyrinth 10:10::150:24::39-864
Labyrinth 20:17::290:24::08-399
Labyrinth 30:17::400:26::47-547
Star Light 10:13::250:17::12-227
Star Light 30:22::360:24::18-102
Scrap Brain 20:09::460:19::13-567
Scrap Brain 30:07::480:08::45-57
Final1:10::201:12::58-158
Total6:16::467:14::31-3465
The times given are the in-game timer values. The value after the final colon pair indicates the in-game frame counter, and is restricted to the 0-59 range. It is updated every frame (except during lag frames), and increments the in-game second when resetting to zero.

Stage by stage comments

Green Hill 3

New route using the middle path and speed shoes. The Sonic 1 loop system is broken beyond belief, and is abused for this new route; enormous speed carried all the way through to the boss.

Marble 1

Entering the wall using raw speed, then zipping to the other side and going through the rest of the level normally. Tee-N-Tee suggested this wall entrance.

Marble 2 & 3

The new zips from the latest Sonic run.

Labyrinth 1

Abusing the fly-into-walls glitch found by Aglar for the S3&K run, a brand new level wrap is used to destroy this level. The level wrap is further enhanced by abusing the camera lock mechanism not once, but twice.

Labyrinth 2

The fly-into-walls glitch is used for a new shortcut. A new way of breaking the monitor and stepping on the switch is used. Better precision until the level wrap.

Labyrinth 3

The fly-into-walls glitch is used once again to create a new level wrap. Poor level...

Star Light 1

Using the zip from the Sonic run.

Star Light 3

Greatly improved precision throughout the level, including breaking a loop. Much better boss fight.

Scrap Brain 2

Uses the same setup for the zip from the Sonic run, but does a level wrap instead as WST proved it is faster for Tails.

Scrap Brain 3

Better precision, better handling of speed (vertical and horizontal, during in-wall flight) are responsible for this improvement.

Final Zone

Using Aglar's pause trick to exchange real-time for in-game time.

Other Comments

Possible improvements: Just wait long enough and someone will suggest one...
Thanks to Kiske for inspiring me to put this together, for improving my version of GHZ3, for a faster strategy for the LZ1 level wrap and for figuring out the SBZ2 zip (the latter was removed in favor of a new trick, but...). Thanks to Tee-N-Tee and Aglar for their respective tricks. Thanks to WST for explaining how to fall through the floor at the end of SBZ2.

feos: Judging...
feos: Replaced the submission file with the 39-frame improvement.
feos: Replaced the submission file with the 34-frame improvement.
feos: Setting to Delayed by author's request.
feos: Accepting and publishing...
marzojr: Fixing embedded encode.


TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #4155: marzojr's Genesis Tails in Sonic The Hedgehog in 13:21.87
Spikestuff
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Not exactly a year. No vote. (Seeing how this is going to moons automatically ... yes.)
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Suggested screenshots: Frame 34165 Frame 34218
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marzojr
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Need to replace he submission file with this; Kiske showed me a strategy I overlooked in GHZ3; his version was 31 frames faster, I managed to improve it by 8 frames; I had to remanipulate the animals, which generally got better patterns, leading to a further 15 frames of (real time) improvement.
Marzo Junior
mklip2001
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Nice job! Do you have any interest in improving the Knuckles hack? JXQ's run is really outdated by this point.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
WST
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marzojr wrote:
Poor level...
Hoping that you had the same feeling seeing how I broke it with Amy :3 A wonderful improvement. Like a boss. Easy yes vote.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
marzojr
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mklip2001 wrote:
Do you have any interest in improving the Knuckles hack? JXQ's run is really outdated by this point.
I just might; we shall see.
Marzo Junior
THC98
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Very nice TAS, I liked it!
Youtube Channel | Twitch Channel • Finished projects: GC Sonic Adventure DX - Sonic | GC Sonic Adventure DX - Tails | GC Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story | GC Sonic Heroes - Team Sonic • Current projects: GC Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Dark Story - 1st WIP • Paused projects: GC Sonic Adventure DX - Knuckles - 1st WIP • Individual levels records: Sonic Adventure DX | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle • My Discord: Tales98#0408
WST
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The thing I love about Sonic games is that sometimes you need to force lag, striving to make as many lag frames as possible :)
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
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For me, Sonic the Hedgehog TASes have become so broken that it is very difficult, if not impossible, for me to be impressed by glitched runs anymore. Almost nothing in this TAS impressed me, so I voted no. Just my feeling that times have changed. This TAS definitely should be published though, because it is an improvement to an already existing one.
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I like various fly-into-walls glitches in this run, which makes a good entertainment different from Sonic's. These improvements are amazing.
WST
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FractalFusion wrote:
For me, Sonic the Hedgehog TASes have become so broken that it is very difficult, if not impossible, for me to be impressed by glitched runs anymore.
Yes, but it’s true — more and more amazing discoveries lead to heavier and heavier broken runs. That’s why nowadays glitchless runs become very promising, and I am really sad that there is no progress on feeuzz’s glitchless WIP… But it’s not the only example of how hardly the game can be broken. Mega Man runs today are also like that (and sometimes even worse). And other games. It’s just a predictable result of desire of speed and torrent of glitch discoveries.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
marzojr
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New file for submission using the fall-through-floor trick in SBZ2 which WST explained to me in another thread. SBZ2 is now 34 frames faster than before, and 2 frames faster than WST's. Edit: The submission has already been edited with the improvement.
Marzo Junior
Post subject: Tails twombly!
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I liked your stylistic choices and of course the technical quality was excellent, too.
marzojr wrote:
I just might; we shall see.
I look forward to this as well! :)
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marzojr
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Uff... at about the same time Kiske was sending me another strategy to improve LBZ1, I discovered that the spindash camera lock works differently in this hack than it does in every other hack, S2 or S3; specifically, it actually locks the camera in place for the duration of the timer. It also seems to expire automatically when you level wrap, but I am not sure why; finally, multiple spindashes while the timer is running do not reset it, it just continues from the current value. In any case, I had to go over the run and see where it would be useful. The first place was MZ3, which was improved by 12 frames. The second was Kiske's improved LZ1 -- his 18-frame improvement became a whooping 36-frame improvement by using the camera lock a second time for the level wrap (along with some precision improvements along the way, I guess -- he only sent me a YouTube video). Completely unrelated to the camera lock, something was irking me when I was fast-forwarding through SLZ3, and I tried a new route at the start; it worked, which caused me to have to redo it entirely -- but saving a further 68 frames in the process, including a much better boss fight. When I had finished all this, including animal manipulation, I went to play the movie... and it desynched in SYZ1. I went to see why, and its input was starting in the middle of level loading; somehow, the animal manipulation in MZ3 got borked up -- I have no idea what happened. So I redid it; this caused chain desynchs and forced me to remanipulate the animals. LZ2 and LZ3 additionally desynched due to lag differences; I resynched it manually because I hadn't saved the improved SLZ3 anywhere but in the movie file. When I finished resynching LZ3, I somehow was 2 frames ahead; I have no idea where these came from. Anyway, this is the story behind this 118-frame improvement. Damn, my TASing skills are rusty... feos, you can set it back to judging underway; I already edited the submission text. This is the (hopefully) final version, as I can see nothing further to improve; but now that I jinxed it, lets see what happens... Edit: I HAD to jinx it, right? Now it was Tee-N-Tee that proposed an improvement: going through walls in MZ1. It is sadly not possible to go through both walls, and I could not extend the zip onto the other side; but this is still a 123-frame improvement in MZ1. Since I did a new skip in LZ2 for the Knuckles run, I tried it in this run too; as a result, LZ2 is now 225 frames shorter. And I noticed I missed an opportunity to use the screen locking in LZ3, which led to 6 frames of improvement (most of the others were lost due to the tight space restrictions which would have prevented me from getting inside the wall). The new version is here. In total, 354 frames of improvement. I already edited the submission. Edit 2: Tee-N-Tee suggested a new route for MZ1 which was 42 frames faster; I improved by a further 13 frames, for 55 more frames of improvement. Here is the new version with remanipulated animals.
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118+354+42... poor feos
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This is becoming quite the frame war...
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Is anyone still considering improving this? I mean, not Marzo.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [2514] Genesis Tails in Sonic The Hedgehog by marzojr in 13:21.87
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I'm surprised this movie wasn't flagged as a notable improvement over the run it obsoletes. ¿What's the reason, feo?
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