You know you play NES Game too much when you are child.You should spend more time on learning,particularly on English.^_^
haha
You know you are bored too much when you log into this forum for the first time in a year just to make a dumb post like this one.
ok I guess I lied, it's only been five months.
I wish my site pleases also the audience who don't know the games. These playthroughs are also a way to introduce previously unknown games to the large audience (although a rather twisted way).
I agree that this is a good goal for the site. However, I feel that there is a *significant* difference between movies made of reflex-oriented games and those runs with a larger focus on macro-level planning (like rpgs and I assume SCII). But while say a Mega Man tas has flashy tricks and showy moves to entertain random people, rpgs have a lot of canned animations and planning that's too arcane for people who don't know the game to understand, so in a way, all they can offer is plot to those people.
But I think not every movie can appeal to every viewer in the first place. For example, a lot of people didn't like the Ecco tas, but I find the game to be aesthetically appealing enough that the video was very enjoyable. I realize Castlevania, etc. is not an rpg (and has more ways to entertain viewers) but I'm going to draw attention to the first sentence of my other post anyway: do people support mandatory viewing of all cutscenes? As callous as it sounds, nobody is forcing anybody to watch any specific video, and if someone expects that watching a tas of whatever rpg won't be entertaining to them, they just shouldn't watch it. (I practice this policy avidly haha) My solution is idealistic, to be sure, but I will always believe that the decision of which version to use should be up to the creator of the movie. They should neither be forced to use one version because some people find it more entertaining nor another because it will shorten the length of the movie. Admittedly, this is less than an optimal solution for the publishing process because any time an obsoletion is presented, there is a burden on knowledgeable players to decide which movie is better performed.
Also: Re: RPG games, you cannot possibly expect everyone to know of every secret item some RPG contains. The RPG game speedruns often use techniques or comboes that are unknown even to those who have completed the game, say, twice. For example, I had no idea whatsoever that Goblin Punch in FF5 has a level limitation effect.
There may be secret events the player did not know, hence the dialog is interesting to read. Also the dialog is interesting to read nevertheless for the game may be good because of the dialog.
Again, I agree, but this is a hazard inherent in the genre and in either language an unusual technique may not make sense to viewers. It seems like most cases like this are described in the comments in any case, but I could be wrong.
Not that it has anything to do with the discussion, but what about a game like Landstalker where the Japanese version includes a scene that was removed for the US release? Would it be better to include the version with the "secret" scene? (also, the ending was made stupid for the US release, but I digress)
My site's core audience is not the players who are expert at making speedruns. It is the people who enjoy watching games being played in ways they never fathomed.
It is just that without those experts, no content is generated. But the experts need to think of the actual audience.
I am the sort of person who views rpg speedruns, whether tool-assisted or not, as a theoretical exercise above all else, so honestly, I usually prefer reading reports to watching the video (because the former takes so much less time). But for the same reason, I don't see why somebody watching the tas to witness the story couldn't read that on the side, and save themselves some time. Oh well. =/
Will the next version of Aria of Sorrow feature all the cutscenes?
Should the Chrono Trigger TAS be required to play to full completion of all sidequests?
[I wish I could post the rest of this separately for rhetorical effect]
I read part of the Star Control II thread in question. I've never played the game, and the replies were getting repetitive, so I stopped reading on page two. :P
This is probably the worst thing I've ever done on this forum, but I'm going to compare that to Star Ocean (which was accepted even though many people said that it was boring). My take on this is that one of the following is true:
1. Bisqwit decided that it was actually a mistake to accept the Star Ocean run because of all the people who complained about it
2. Bisqwit can't publish his own movie because of obvious favoritism
3. Star Ocean actually beat 50% yes votes so that was good enough
At any rate, most of the people who responded "boring" had never played the game and said they didn't know what was going on. Most of the runs affected by any rule about game languages are going to be RPGs...and while there are clearly people who like watching them for plot, I feel like they're missing the point. Like many non-RPG tases, RPG runs show what can be done with minimal powerups and maximum luck manipulation. For those who say they don't understand what's going on in battle, all you find out from watching in english that you wouldn't in another language is the name-like that makes any difference. "Oh, Crono used Luminaire! So...uhh...what does Luminaire do?"
Certainly authors shouldn't be forced to use a version they don't want to. In my opinion the populist process is a flaw when it comes to this sort of judging, because people familiar with the game will recognize the better run when they see it, and others might just say "it's only faster because of the text!" Plus, for (U) movies that are being obsoleted, if you're watching to see the plot, you can just watch the older version...I mean, obviously it doesn't matter that the rest of it uses sub-optimal strategies.
So...if the game can save, but you don't, will it work?
</lemmings2>
(I mean as a general guess/rule, not expecting you to know in specific cases of course)
I thought that Bisqwit only disallowed translations because there was an off-chance that there could be a newer revision some time in the future. Rather unlikely if there hasn't been an update for years, but eh.
Actually a new translation patch was released last year. I can't find the old one, which is pretty unfortunate since I run linux 95% of the time now and the new one is almost totally incompatible with snes9x for linux. Oh well.
I'm not entirely sure how repetitive a tas would be on this game, since I'd think that it would involve a lot of different spell use. Or it could, I guess is closer to what I mean.
now seems like an okay time to say that assuming he means rnh (and why wouldn't he) i actually semi-joked about this a couple times at sda. here's what i think:
pro:
some japanese guy did the game in 3 hours ss
the music is awesome
the game is pretty tough
writing your own spells means you can break yourself early on
i thought this game was really cool
con:
no english version...translations aren't allowed, which really hurts in this case because...
spells are gibberish; yeah I'm not sure I could ever get over this, even with all the faqs in the world
nobody would actually know what was going on >_>
also for some reason I only talk about tasing games where there's not actually any point for me :o
also-lemmings 2 probably has higher priority. i've determined that it's probably 1500 hours of work though :(
anyway even that isn't very high on my list so...
yes.
in general the run moves slowly because i've been playing like a dozen rpgs at once continuously (many of those got nuked when i dropped my computer too) for months and attempting to console run games that suck.
any time i have to use the fan, the run is low on the list. i also note that i had a ridiculous amount of stuff to do at the end of may.
when i get the opportuntiy and the motivation, this run will be updated.
ugh, sorry, this run is fucked indefinitely. i dropped my laptop on tuesday and it doesn't work. not only did i lose all my work on beach 2, but the computer that my dad lets me run snes9x on itself. in other words, i can't even start to redo my progress yet.
we...apologize...for...the...inconvenience... :(
The real main thing I'm wondering about your plan so far is this: how exactly do you intend to kill <last boss name>? It has 3 forms, and if your current difficulty against lashiec is anything to go by, it'll be much worse at that point.
well, iirc, the first form of profound darkness doesn't do jack (basically weak physical attacks) but there are of course the other two which have like 18000 health combined. i thought darkness was easier than lasheic (who i thought was about as hard as the fight against the three big bastards in his castle) but i suppose i could see that not being the case in a speedrun of any sort.
you would have raja in that fight though.
anyway, is there some way you could level in the aircastle? i don't remember what the encounters there are, but there is a hp/tp recharge spot right there.
no. sorry. and nothing all week. orchestra makes me very unhappy.
in fact, there will probably be no more to see until june. at this rate i'll be done in...what...2026?
all right! you're getting pretty close ;)
i'm excited to see la shiec, as i thought he was the hardest boss in that game...and he was so damned far from a save.
at any rate, learning how to use the tools isn't too hard/time consuming on its own, but using them effectively is much harder, as far as i can tell.
Well um, using them effectively is implied in using them at all! ;)
well, what i meant was really that i feel like i'm slowly improving in my..."efficiency"...and not having to spend so long getting relatively simple moves right. it took me like 100 rerecords before i even did basically anything on my run.
You think it sounds bad in all versions or in the GBA port? I've never been the biggest Uematsu fan, but FF4-6 is definitely his best work IMO, and back in the SNES days he was rather good compared to most composers. His overworld themes tend to be very good. Yeah, just like Mitsuda, battle themes are pretty much a big weakness, but I thought the ones in this game were decent.
sounds bad on the gba. i actually really like the snes version's.
I don't know if anybody else feels the same way, but watching my own console runs already feels quite strange. ;)
haha, for me it's weird because i'm like "AAH HOW COULD I BE SO STUPID!"
I think probably the biggest hurdle to me would be learning all the nuances of TAS making. Of course, this would probably apply (to different extents) no matter which game I did.
i don't really know, but i'd think an rpg would be fairly straightforward since you have a clearly defined goal for each event. i did think about playing with rudra no hihou but when i realized i have to learn large amounts of japanese gibberish i put that one aside (i think the game could make an entertaining run though, and i might still consider it).
at any rate, learning how to use the tools isn't too hard/time consuming on its own, but using them effectively is much harder, as far as i can tell.
Oh and I would definitely not use the GBA version since I don't like it, don't like remakes in general, and I don't know it nearly as well as FF2 US. This is assuming of course that I do decide to do this.
haa, i hate advance. so boring. and the battle theme sounds horrible (i programmed the melody into my cell phone for a ringtone! haha).
I guess I'm just scared at how long this would take, since I have more console runs I want to do, games I need to play and catch up on, and also my thesis to work on, heh...I think in several weeks, I will start this, see how it goes, and then decide whether or not I want to continue.
i feel the same way, and all i could reccommend is, don't rush it. i am thoroughly amazed at the people who can work what seems like very quickly to me. you do have a very big advantage over me, in my opinion, in that you're very familiar with ff4 and have completed a console speedrun of it.
i would certainly enjoy a tas on this game (i look forward to watching your run as well). working on a tas and then viewing your handiwork is...fun. but also quite strange. it's odd to go through things over and over again, very slowly, then see them happening so deftly and perfectly. i don't know if you'll like it, but if it means there's a run on this game here, then i'd be happy. =)
Well, there is no shortage of ways to kill guys if you want to (armageddon being the obvious and always available, and just escaping is best in versions that allow that). The trick would be to find a level where sacrificing a lemming would allow for a faster solution. That's what I meant.
if i were doing it this way, the answer seems obvious to me. you kill off the lemming as early as possible, so he doesn't drop anymore. that'd save a second or so on each level.
Actually, we could do either, and it's up to spineshark. It would be a lot easier to plan with 100% possible so the levels would stay independent. Both would be impressive in different ways, and there's really not going to be too much of a difference either way, so it's a judgment call.
i rather like the idea of maximum (for this purpose, "100") percent, as opposed to a "best rank" run. especially if some of the tribes don't give you much/any leeway anyway, i don't see what's the point of killing off 10 extra lemmings (or however many it would be) to save 45 seconds.
the fan just has a more extreme version of the cursor lag i (think i) alluded to before. it takes three frames before it starts spinning and it must go for eight more before it does anything. at any rate, the annoying part is holding it for just the right amount of time. is there a way to go to full speed from frame advance, without reloading the ROM?
edit: haha, probably.
hahaha, i fail.
haha, i wish i'd realized the fan is totally annoying. i'm less than a second into level 2, since it starts with a jetpack, and then a rope! my two favorite things!
i've been playing final fantasy iv and baten kaitos mostly, haha. ^_~
i don't know what the master plan is, but as i recall, 250 is a drop in the bucket as later on this game throws money at you faster than you can spend it. (or at least it did that for me, but i just realized i spent a long time on rykros fighting a couple encounters then freaking out and returning to the base)
really, i don't see what he'd be spending a lot of money on. the best weapon for rika is the GUARD-CLAW and you have to get ELSYDEON for chaz.
incidentally, can you take demi into your party, steal her gun and give it to wren, then bring raja for profound darkness?
Oh yeah, forgot to add something!
If a level has more than one Runner and the level only requires you to use one or two, you can have the rest of the lemmings catch up by changing them into runners. That would shave off a few seconds from the run.
That's what I did - when the level was safe to traverse, I'd make the last few runners, using up the rest of the running skill.
That would be a potent way to shave off even minutes from the run, as many levels has the Runner skill.
have you seen my wip? i did this on the first level, haha.
you just need to give the runner to the last lemming inside...unless giving him that puts another lemming in last, then...
first thing: yes, a minimum lemming run would be much faster than an all-lemmings run (basically by the amount of time it takes for all the lemmings to drop in each level). i have already stated that i am working on a "100%" though.
second: the fan really sucks. it takes twelve seconds to activate, then you have to figure out how long to hold it. it took me two and a half hours just to use the jetpack the first time, and i need to use it at least once more for a really ridiculous flight later on.
third: the levels are generally different between console and pc versions (i must see the game boy version now, hahaha). as far as i've seen, the chains are not in the snes version. i am pretty sure that website has the dos version solutions.
even in a game with bad console controls like l2, risk and difficulty shouldn't be a factor in a tas...
that hurts.
I haven't gotten around to playing this game for a second time (actually, I'm in Tonoe, where I seem to be a little too low-leveled for an unassisted game) but I'm not sure that having Gryz block will keep him alive. It also requires that a second character (either Chaz or Rika, I think) heals him so he doesn't just die. Really, I still don't really know the game well enough to say for sure...does Demi have two MEDPOWR or whatever it is at that point?
Defeat Green without having him transform
Green can be easily beaten. He was made so he can only transfrom when your chracter is not looking at him. Simply have your character keep looking at Green and fire and you'll easily beat him without having to deal with his transformed states.
edit: oh, you must be talking about final green. hahaha. I know you can shoot him as he constantly tries to get around you, but I didn't think it actually stalled him. I thought it was more like the loading lag when he's about to use Tails Force...
Isn't getting two 1s a little slow?
Not at all. The route Maur is giving goes Minion Soldier, Vortex Core, Item, Melon Bread, Black. It's definitely the fastest way to get to the Item room, which is required to progress (because the alternative is the bubble madness, which takes at least 30 seconds...I've never even finished on Hard). I'm not sold on Melon Bread because he moves and hurts so much. I don't really know though, since I've been doing a lot more playing to win than testing for speed so far.
