I'm just playing through it to see how fast I can go and what techniques I can use. I think the kick in the air goes faster than just running, but I'm not sure how to confirm this. I have the first level beat with Red on Normal in 59 seconds(or so the game says) - is that good?
Edit - Also, I plan on using slo-mo to kill every enemy in the forced-scroll part of Moon 1. Yay me. Either slo-mo, or just not firing once in that section and dodging everything.
What I have so far:http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1070/Gunstar%20Super%20Heroes2%20%28U%29.vbm
Since I tried this last year, and the HD I had it on is gone, I don't remember much, but I'll offer all I can remember.
-On The first autoscroll area(Moon 1 I believe), destroying all the enemies is faster than dodging, also, you need to destroy the copters you speed it up.(force/2nd shot should do this, I was doing red-hard mode)
-I think jump -> side air kick -> down air kick -> repeat is that fastest way to go. I used dash, but when I did use it on moon 4's boss, I nearly ran into him once or twice.
- Using up+b -> down+b -> repeat is probably the fastest way to kill all the bosses/standing still enemies. Side kicks might work better, I'm not sure.
-When fighting Green 1, 2nd shot's special(tapping R) is your friend on a few of his transformations.
-On Moon 4, after some flying mini-boss and pre-the elevator to the game board area, you can glitch the game and go down the set of platforms before the elevator without the lasers loading up, due to the game still thinks you're in the area before it. You've got to quickly dash/side kick without the screen locking, so you're trying to start dropping down the platforms as soon as you see them on screen.
-Only boss that the uppercut -> downkick combo doesn't work on is Orange, you need to use the 3rd shot type to damage him better.
-On stage 1, there's a rolling robot in the area before you go into the area with General Gray, you dont need to kill him.
-It is possible to kill the final boss without getting hit, but it'll take too long.
-Moon 1's golem mini-boss can be attacked as soon as you see the first block of him on screen, he is REALLY weak to the uppercut -> downkick combo.
-Moon 1's boss(Pink) Is also an easy kill with either 2nd shot special/uppercut ->downkick combo, you can get out from under the legs of the robot as soon as the first leg lifts.
-If you do switch to Red-Hard, The top down flying area's boss should be an acception to the no damage rule, because no matter what I tried, I could not get out of getting damaged(End of fight hp would be anywhere from 2 to 25)
I that's all I can think of right now, this should help some.
EDIT:Typo. >_>;
I think it's faster to use the exit behind the third rolling bot instead of going up into the crate area.
Blue's laser is the strongest weapon available, you can roast bosses with it MUCH faster than with Red's rapid fire (of course kicks are best but against Seven Force you can't use kicks and I think they lack effectiveness against Golden Silver because you only damage him for a few frames per jump). That saves a LOT of time.
The game MUST be played on hard as per the rules, it does more than add health and damage to bosses.
On Moon 1, I'm having trouble shooting everyone in the plane flying sequence. Can you provide help?
Hold left. This is for those thingies that fly around you and don't do anything else. They'll fly straight into your shots, bar none.
But the only things that you have to take out for speed, afaik, are the copters (and maybe the blue mechs).
I can't comment more right now, but you should be using Force almost exclusively compared to Fire (it's supercharge owns everything, period), and you need to use down-a more too (pink and the three pillar guys in 2-2, specifically).
[edit]alright, I definitely plan on running this for SDA. I've had a couple demo runs posted here, but both of the links are defunct and I lost the files.
Alright, first, did you try down-a sliding and then jump-kicking for fast movement as opposed to jump-kicking?
Are you sure that Fire (weapon 2 for red) deals more damage normally than Force (weapon 1 for red) for their uncharged shots? I use Force almost exclusively because it's supercharge is far far far more useful. It regenerates itself if you hit stuff - it'll never run out. Fire's supercharge is one-use only. Besides that, there's lots more things you can use supercharged force for than fire, for whatever reason.
For 0-2, right before you meet general gray, you can just jump over the spinning guy and go right through the door. You don't need to jump up and go through the crate room.
1-2, use supercharged force on the plant thing that rises up. I'm almost sure that's faster.
Can't say anything about the save-the-chicks part, I always sucked on that.
1-5, pink can be defeated much quicker by standing next to her (on top of her robot, next to her actual body) and down-Aing into her and releasing supercharged fires.
2-2, you can kill the three pillar guys about 3x quicker. Don't hang from the wire. I can't remember the exact details, but you have to move to the center of the battlefield, then jump left past the leftmost (to prevent them from hiding in the ground too soon or some such, I can't remember, and you can optimize this better than I), then down-A them.
Orange can be defeated 5x quicker by hopping onto the edge of the plane, getting him to rush you, and then jumping over him and using supercharged Force on him. If the plane is against the edge of the map, he'll simply get stuck there from getting bounced back against it and you can kill him in 5 secs max.
Stage 3 I'll be looking to you for. The only thing I did was supercharge fire the train and then supercharge force the boss. You definitely want to luck manipulate the urchin form in there for the fight against seven force (it takes damage super-freaking-quickly), and there can either be A: no direction changes (ie, the battlefield must stay completley horizontal, you can't switch directions and start moving up) or switch ONCE only. The battlefield will have to switch once simply because it does at the end if you're not heading up already, but any more than that is a waste.
Stage 4, best dice palace route is 4-3-1-1-5 afaik. The first roll, minion soldier, can be defeated easily by holding left as you enter the room. He'll do his green slice attack towards you. Get hit by it at the edge of the map, then turn left and smite him with the sword a few times.
For 5, you can skip the text where gray demands payment of gems.
For G-ARC, supercharge force pink, slide into orange once and then supercharge force him, and luck manipulate Green so he does nothing but urchin form. And have fun with golden silver, I hate that fight.
These strategies can probably be improved, but they're a decent starting place regardless (I hope, anyways...).
[minor edit]kind of pointless, but you can skip the power-on company logos and so on by soft resetting (start/select/a/b-ing) the game asap and then hitting start.
Wow, I don't think I know anything that Maur doesn't (I can't watch the WIP anyway). My lame excuse is that I bought the game nine days ago.
You're really doing this on normal? That's disappointing...if you are though, I think you'll want to skip Soldier Force and Eagle (is that it? I hope so). And on Save the Chicks, I think you might be able to...uhm, never mind, let me check it out some more and get back.
Oh, incidentally, I've never gotten good damage out of uncharged Fire since it goes so slowly...
Alright, first, did you try down-a sliding and then jump-kicking for fast movement as opposed to jump-kicking?
I do alternate down-a slides and jump kicks; however, sometimes I do 2 or more of one type in a row in order to avoid being slowed down by an obstacle.
Are you sure that Fire (weapon 2 for red) deals more damage normally than Force (weapon 1 for red) for their uncharged shots? I use Force almost exclusively because it's supercharge is far far far more useful. It regenerates itself if you hit stuff - it'll never run out. Fire's supercharge is one-use only. Besides that, there's lots more things you can use supercharged force for than fire, for whatever reason.
Nope. But Fire's supercharge charges as it does damage, oflen allowing for multiple uses against bosses.
For 0-2, right before you meet general gray, you can just jump over the spinning guy and go right through the door. You don't need to jump up and go through the crate room.
Really? I'll have to check that out. I thought the crate room was mandatory.
1-2, use supercharged force on the plant thing that rises up. I'm almost sure that's faster.
I'll definitely try that as well - I think it took too long.
Can't say anything about the save-the-chicks part, I always sucked on that.
I made a map and tried to figure out the fastest route with no backtracking. I think there might be a faster route, as this one spends a few seconds collecting no chicks yet still going.
1-5, pink can be defeated much quicker by standing next to her (on top of her robot, next to her actual body) and down-Aing into her and releasing supercharged fires.
I think that'll work better than what I have.
2-2, you can kill the three pillar guys about 3x quicker. Don't hang from the wire. I can't remember the exact details, but you have to move to the center of the battlefield, then jump left past the leftmost (to prevent them from hiding in the ground too soon or some such, I can't remember, and you can optimize this better than I), then down-A them.
It took me forever to get them even as fast as I did. Thanks.
Orange can be defeated 5x quicker by hopping onto the edge of the plane, getting him to rush you, and then jumping over him and using supercharged Force on him. If the plane is against the edge of the map, he'll simply get stuck there from getting bounced back against it and you can kill him in 5 secs max.
My goal with Orange was to provide an entertaining fight. I could do it much faster with this way, however, and it's definitely cool to see a boss dies in 5 seconds.
Stage 3 I'll be looking to you for. The only thing I did was supercharge fire the train and then supercharge force the boss. You definitely want to luck manipulate the urchin form in there for the fight against seven force (it takes damage super-freaking-quickly), and there can either be A: no direction changes (ie, the battlefield must stay completley horizontal, you can't switch directions and start moving up) or switch ONCE only. The battlefield will have to switch once simply because it does at the end if you're not heading up already, but any more than that is a waste.
Stage 3 is entirely on wheels. I read this on Gamefaqs, though:
Some gamefaqs user wrote:
Defeat Green without having him transform
Green can be easily beaten. He was made so he can only transfrom when your chracter is not looking at him. Simply have your character keep looking at Green and fire and you'll easily beat him without having to deal with his transformed states.
Anyways, back to you...
Stage 4, best dice palace route is 4-3-1-1-5 afaik. The first roll, minion soldier, can be defeated easily by holding left as you enter the room. He'll do his green slice attack towards you. Get hit by it at the edge of the map, then turn left and smite him with the sword a few times.
Isn't getting two 1s a little slow?
For 5, you can skip the text where gray demands payment of gems.
I skip all text possible.
For G-ARC, supercharge force pink, slide into orange once and then supercharge force him, and luck manipulate Green so he does nothing but urchin form. And have fun with golden silver, I hate that fight.
I've never even progressed that far -shame on me.
kind of pointless, but you can skip the power-on company logos and so on by soft resetting (start/select/a/b-ing) the game asap and then hitting start.
Yeah, I hate those. Is that tactic legal, though? Are soft resets even possible with the VBA bios?
On to Shinespark.
spineshark wrote:
Wow, I don't think I know anything that Maur doesn't (I can't watch the WIP anyway). My lame excuse is that I bought the game nine days ago.
I didn't buy it at all.
You're really doing this on normal? That's disappointing...if you are though, I think you'll want to skip Soldier Force and Eagle (is that it? I hope so). And on Save the Chicks, I think you might be able to...uhm, never mind, let me check it out some more and get back.
I'm doing this on normal because I have a deadline. If I make good time I'll go back and do it on hard. Save the Chicks, I mapped out on my own. My route is one of the fastest.
Oh, incidentally, I've never gotten good damage out of uncharged Fire since it goes so slowly...
Defeat Green without having him transform
Green can be easily beaten. He was made so he can only transfrom when your chracter is not looking at him. Simply have your character keep looking at Green and fire and you'll easily beat him without having to deal with his transformed states.
edit: oh, you must be talking about final green. hahaha. I know you can shoot him as he constantly tries to get around you, but I didn't think it actually stalled him. I thought it was more like the loading lag when he's about to use Tails Force...
Isn't getting two 1s a little slow?
Not at all. The route Maur is giving goes Minion Soldier, Vortex Core, Item, Melon Bread, Black. It's definitely the fastest way to get to the Item room, which is required to progress (because the alternative is the bubble madness, which takes at least 30 seconds...I've never even finished on Hard). I'm not sold on Melon Bread because he moves and hurts so much. I don't really know though, since I've been doing a lot more playing to win than testing for speed so far.
Stage 3 is entirely on wheels. I read this on Gamefaqs, though:
Some gamefaqs user wrote:
Defeat Green without having him transform
Green can be easily beaten. He was made so he can only transfrom when your chracter is not looking at him. Simply have your character keep looking at Green and fire and you'll easily beat him without having to deal with his transformed states.
That's for the second Green fight. You haven't seen it yet if you haven't beaten the game. :/
It's really really slow, btw. Don't do it. It's mainly for the guys who get stuck on Green on hard while playing normally.
I just wish the coolest fight in the game couldn't be cheesed like that. Ah well, not like we'll be using it.
And yeah, I'm 99% positive that the dice palace route I gave is the best. you are required to land on the 8th square to proceed to the second level. The 4-3-1 leads up to that, and it's almost certainly the fastest route up to that point. Minion soldier and vortex core each die very quickly, (~7 secs for minion and literally 3 for vortex) as opposed to bubble madness, which is a platforming stage.
You could always try 3-5, but the third spot requires you to kill everything on an autoscrolling belt. Pretty sure it's slower, although it's second best, all other things considered.
For the second half, you basically have either 1-5 or 5-1. Melon Bread dies much faster than the zombie teddy bear thing though, and it doesn't have a 10 second death animation. Oh, and you can easily manipulate melon bread into staying on the other side of the screen and have him not touch you at all.
I think it's worth it to note that I was playing Red Easy, although there aren't many changes at all.
I do alternate down-a slides and jump kicks; however, sometimes I do 2 or more of one type in a row in order to avoid being slowed down by an obstacle.
Ah, cool. That's what I do.
Something I forgot to mention: there's a shortcut in the Item room in the dice palace (the third square you hit). Instead of blasting blocks to your left once you ascend some and dropping to the rising platform, you can shoot blocks above you, up-a, and walljump to the exit.
I'm not sure how (or what for) I'd try to manipulate Green's forms - I'd have to do some research on how they're chosen. If they're chosen at start of stage, I'm doomed. If they're chosen at the beginning of the fight, I'm slightly less doomed. If they're chosen on the fly, I'm okay.
Interesting, Gamefaqs claims that Force is better than Lightning (but the two faqs claim different strengths for fire, one saying it's best while the other says it's weaker than force/lightning) but in my experience lightning takes bosses down MUCH faster. Maybe there's a difference between the European and US version?
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
Force may have greater power, but Lightning lends 6 hits per shot.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
>Yeah, I hate those. Is that tactic legal, though? Are soft resets even possible with the VBA bios?
Yes (for sure), and yes (quite probably), in that order.
I don't know what the bios would have to do with it, the soft reset is just a button combination.
I've just tested it, force causes decrements of four every 8 frames while lightning is a bit more random, usually 5 damage per 7 frames but sometimes only 4 damage over those 7 frames and sometimes 9 frames until the next damage, sometimes even 6 damage. Either it's floating point accuracy or has something to do with how the beams hit. No matter what, Lightning does more damage over time.
Fire seems to do 4-6 damage every 7 frames with roughly equal spread. I've had it do 3 once.
I've used the first rolling bot on Earth in hard mode as my testing subject.
The damage spread suggests that more testing or maybe memory watching is necessary.
>Yeah, I hate those. Is that tactic legal, though? Are soft resets even possible with the VBA bios?
Yes (for sure), and yes (quite probably), in that order.
I don't know what the bios would have to do with it, the soft reset is just a button combination.
The soft reset, afaik, is not a game thing, but a feature of the GBA. Thus, there would need to be the necessary bios to use it.
ninja edit: Nope, it works.
KDR_11k wrote:
I've just tested it, force causes decrements of four every 8 frames while lightning is a bit more random, usually 5 damage per 7 frames but sometimes only 4 damage over those 7 frames and sometimes 9 frames until the next damage, sometimes even 6 damage. Either it's floating point accuracy or has something to do with how the beams hit. No matter what, Lightning does more damage over time.
Fire seems to do 4-6 damage every 7 frames with roughly equal spread. I've had it do 3 once.
I've used the first rolling bot on Earth in hard mode as my testing subject.
The damage spread suggests that more testing or maybe memory watching is necessary.
I don't think the damage done is random - it may have to do with where or how you hit. Also, have you tried the physical attacks? Uppercut, slide, air kick, and the down+A attack in air all see use in my playing.
From my experience, Fire is the fastest method of beating the first boss, at least, and thus I use it in my run. Fire has the advantage of lingering slightly.
__________________________________________________
By the way: It is possible to climb a wall slightly with wall jumps and an air kick. Jump at the wall, wall jump off, air kick back on, and wall jump off again. While this isn't very useful(you can only air kick once per jump), it looks good and might show its uses at some point(like the beginning of Moon 4).
You should test the damage of all melee attacks as well as the various weapons. All I'm saying is that force can be discarded as a contender for "best weapon" so you should use Blue instead. I suppose fire is better when you don't have as many opportunities to get a shot off but you'll have to check whether lightning or fire is better when you have an unobstructed line of fire.
I do think there's more to boss health than the number you see so memory watching might be necessary.
The jumping up walls will be useful for the item room on moon 4 to avoid using the elevator.
Also: I found that, at least for me, Green's forces always started off with the arrow-shooting one, then the lion. It seems rational to believe that they cannot be influenced 'on the fly'. I'd like help testing this theroy, and figuring out what determines which forces he uses.
Keep restarting the green battle over and over, from the stage select screen. I'm 99% positive I've had it start out as different things.
All I'm saying is that force can be discarded as a contender for "best weapon" so you should use Blue instead.
supercharged force owns blue. Lightning may be the most powerful normal weapon, but with red, you're almost never using a normal weapon. Supercharged force is so broken it isn't funny. You can use it forever so long as you have aim.
imo, the easiest difficulty is red easy, and the hardest is blue hard.
Let's resurrect something from the beginning of the topic, since I just noticed it:
-If you do switch to Red-Hard, The top down flying area's boss should be an acception to the no damage rule, because no matter what I tried, I could not get out of getting damaged(End of fight hp would be anywhere from 2 to 25)
If you follow the right wall of the stage, you don't run into either of the two miniboss copters (you avoid the first and the second never appears) and you can easily reach the boss with full health.
If you take out the four boats in the water asap, and then scoot between the big ship's guns (when one is extended, move to it, and then switch back and forth as the guns move forwards and back), you can avoid all damage from the side things.
I actually have a vid of this, if my explanation fails.
If you follow the right wall of the stage, you don't run into either of the two miniboss copters (you avoid the first and the second never appears) and you can easily reach the boss with full health.
In my run, I kill them and lose no time whatsoever.
If you take out the four boats in the water asap, and then scoot between the big ship's guns (when one is extended, move to it, and then switch back and forth as the guns move forwards and back), you can avoid all damage from the side things.
My run defeats the boss so quickly that it only takes 4 damage, but that in no way slows down the run.
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
Like I wrote before, I will TAS this game, but only when I finish Aria of Sorrow. But it seems the people are moving fast, and I don't want to be the last of the line...
=P
Please check it and tell me your opinions!
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
