I think the same as last time, that there are a lot of obvious optimizations that you don't make, and that having extra restrictions on your run isn't an excuse to be sloppy. I won't bother listing them since you don't seem to be interested in fixing them.
Moreover, against the water boss, you "kill" some missiles, which is not necessary for game completion. This interferes with your pacifict restriction, I think.
I tried to get back over from the platform where you stopped in your movie, but like you I couldn't find any way to do it.
i'm interested in the optimizations;
it's just that a lot of them you may not understand why i can't do them.
i'm going to publish this run just so people can see it once i'm done, but i will go back over it, so i'd still like the advice.
i'm going to post some gifs showing hitboxes too, so you can understand why i do some of the things i do, and some gifs showing some of the glitches and other things i need to explain.
also, i killed a lazer beam and a fan later on; i had to kill that missle or else i would have been hit no matter what in that situation, jumping on him like that, i had to kill the missles or i would have gotten hit no matter what due to the hitboxes in this game being massive.
i could have just backed off and done nothing, but really that would have just wasted time and looked stupid.
i mean i know there's some optimization in places, but a lot of it, no offense, is the best anyone could possibly do, just due to the hitboxes in the game being skewed and such, even if it does look sloppy. 99% of the time you jump kick someone in this game, the game sucks you into the enemy and you get hit, so that's why i can only get short bursts of hits like that, and even then timing those takes tons of tries.
but definitely tell me the stuff you think i should improve and i'll try to do it in the next run.
you gotta admit i wasted that level 4 boss fast though :P especially the first form haha
www.lazylaces.com
best site for point and click games ever
if you want to get scared to death, i reccomend you do a search for;
"room, off" and look for something that describes a scary game
or search for
"exmortis"
I'm doing a shinobi III speedrun pacifist mode + barebones, and in doing so i've had to use a lot of unorthodox methods to get around speedily to make up for time where i lost it in other places.
So, i found a couple of glitches/odd things you can do to cut your time down/make the run more interesting, and I wanted to make gif files of them.
So two questions:
1) what the heck do you guys use to render videos in gens? any codec I seem to use like divx that works normally, or even uncompressed, when I try to put it back into adobe premiere, it screws itself.
I've been working with film for a couple of years so I know my way around codecs and all of that; so i'm wondering, do you all use some special codec for this stuff? ><
2) what do you guys usually use to make gif files? i can use adobe but it's not that great.
well, i used the one shuriken anyways.
I'm at the final elevator on the final level, at 24:45, so i think it'll finish somewhere between 27 and 28 minutes.
pretty good for a run without shuriken, ninjitsu, damaging the enemy or myself, and no powerup items :D
i beat the dragon boss pretty quickly too in an interesting fashion, and neozeed was bullshit hard to find interesting things to do with (or even to damage effectively without shuriken) but i did it pretty decently i think.
I'll probably have the video done by saturday or sunday night. :)
Wow, on the level 4 stuff, I pulled off some CRAZY stuff on the boss; I think I killed it faster than the game intended, i don't remember it tweaking out blue like that.
Basically due to programming whatever, the jump kick during the level 4 boss works amazingly well; i'm able to register a hit every two frames since the boss doesn't flash like almost every other boss in the game, which enables me to beat the first form of the boss in just a few seconds.
The latter two forms are almost just as fast, and i do some crazy missle dodging in the last form.
However there's some bad news; Would you all consider it ok if I used *one* shuriken?The video stops right where i'm having problems. (it always casts a ninjitsu when the video ends for some weird reason, that's not part of the video)
Basically you would normally throw a shuriken to break the box and then it would blow up the platform. (two if you want it to go faster).
As you see I can get over there using the kick glitch.
However, I absolutely *cannot* get back. Using fujin doesn't do anything; even though I can jump higher, this doesn't help length if there's a low ceiling.
I've tried jumping back using frame advance (as i have done just about everything in this video) and not in a single frame can you grab the ceiling to go back again, nor can i get enough length to get back over, and i can't even start the kick glitch because I can't get back over enough.
So would you guys still consider this impressive/a legit "no shuriken" run if I *had* to use shuriken to beat that part? Same way as that it's a "no harming enemies run" even though i have to kill bosses and such.
Also, in case you didn't notice in the first post, there's a new file up;
http://deepbluevibe.phpwebhosting.com/shinobi3.zip
i haven't put up a new file yet, but i'm at the 4th level boss now. i never touched the ground more than twice during the third level boss, something to look forward to soon :P
also in the 4th level i got rid of most of my shurikens pretty fast, discovered that there is a limit to them being on screen but the game will still take them away from you if you're pressing the button.
the hitboxes in this game make this challenge of no damage and no damage to others insanely hard >< but i'm still treading through, 13 minutes, 40 seconds at 4th stage boss
= I'm going to reply to the ones that I think I need to inform you on some stuff about;
- On the last enemy before you enter the caves, you could have moved forward more during your jump over him
= I tried moving forward more as much as possible; moving forward at all past where I was, had I done the drop kick after (waited longer by moving forward I mean in the air) it would have hit the guy.
- When you jump over the small ledges in the entrance to the caves, you don't need to jump kick, the landing animation will not play during low jumps
= yeah, i just did that for messing around.
- Is it impossible to slash the samurais while standing on the ground (not jumping over the energy waves)?
= yes. if you don't have the power shuriken, you will get hit no matter what.
- I don't like the twiching, but that's personal taste.
= i do a lot less of that as time goes on as you saw, did you get the latest run?
- You did a lot more hits the second round against the boss samurai than you did the first
= this is because had i done a lot the first round, i would have killed him with one final blow AFTER waiting for the attack; i wanted it to be all in one stream with the final blow.
- Going trough the charging boss was cool, but jumping over him is quicker (the accepted version makes a similar mistake)
= Yeah, i'm semi-going for speed remember, but i'm far more going for entertainment. I would estimate the final video will be about 3 or so minutes slower than the fastest run due to lack of... well, everything.
- Non-equal number of hits on the yellow ninja in the horse level.
= Had to do it that way; without shuriken you can only get one hit on him when he jumps over to the left, and the rest of the hits, it's random to be able to get two hits with jumping down + slash
- Final hit on him could be more to the left (earlier).
= True, I just wanted it to be shown more.
- You didn't enter the boss room as soon as possible.
= Yeah, i know.
- About second boss (and others too): isn't the slicing more effective than the jumpkicks?
= Yes, but I couldn't keep myself in the air that way; i'm going for entertainment again. So i'm wondering, taking into account that I am going for a *fast* time but with these restrictions, by far not the fastest, if I keep up doing weird tricks like i'm doing, do you think it has a chance of being accepted?
The real craziness will be the rock falling level, the dojo level (that'll be a miracle of god) and the final boss with these settings.
I've only seen one video on this board, which was the no shuriken kill all enemies etc and seemingly no effort was put into it. I couldn't find any others, I'll have another look but could you post a link please?(DW I found it)
And as for the Ninjitsu... well:
1) I forgot at first.
2) I don't want to be arsing around working out if it would be quicker to use
it at this point or that point, or which one to use, or if it would save enough frames to make it worth pausing and choosing it, all while taking into account how long it takes to cast.
3) It makes the video look more impressive.
I will make a topic with what I've done so far with a list of suitable excuses :p
Check out my movie so far, it's;
-no shuriken
-no items
-no ninjitsu
-no harming other enemies (unless needed, like miniboss/bosses/vents blocking pathway etc.)
-no damage to myself
maybe it'll help you some, it's pretty weird some of the stuff i end up doing.
New zip file in first link/post, same link but the zip file's updated. also get it here at http://deepbluevibe.phpwebhosting.com/shinobi3.zip
now up to 8 minutes, to halfway point of 3rd level; due to some suggestions, I get kinda silly/crazy with some stuff on the elevator at the halfway point (being one pixel away from guards, mimicing their movements, barely missing being crushed, other stunts).
On the level 2 boss, I actually found a GOOD use for the wall-scale using the jump kick-glitch; I was able to just float up the wall while it tried to zap me, and was able to drop kick it the minute it stopped, doing some pretty crazy aerial stunts/combos on it.
The third level is insanity; i can't even believe I was able to make it through that with these conditions i put on myself, and the mid-boss battle i redid like 20 times (not re-record; i mean I went through it and re-did the entire battle 20 or so times)
leave some more comments guys :D
yeah, there's just not much else to do because of the way the game's setup, the elevator stuff was interesting i think but;
any action you give your character takes three frames to activate.
because of that i'm able to do glitches like the floating running, or the extremely quick downwards attack from a jump, but almost none of his moves are interupptable by any of his other moves, EXCEPT a jump will cancel out all moves you're doing (except obviously the downwards attack etc.)
i mean i'm not being condescending but any other suggestions you guys have for stuff to do to screw around, i'd appreciate em :P i got an idea for the "canisters of brains" boss that should be pretty entertaining if i can pull it off...
the real insanity is going to be the final levels, especially the dojo and vertical falling rocks level, oh god.
This is very entertaining so far. Please continue.
I wonder if you could manipulate enemies to throw their shuriken more advantageously on the first level. If you're stuck waiting, it'd be faster to duck under a tight cluster of shuriken than to have them more spread out.
Awesome, did you see the original file or the latest one I just put up in the first post?
and is anyone else interested in this? Just because yes, i'm making this because it's fun, but I also want to make sure there's some interest besides just one person after seeing the video :P school, film work, etc. is also takin up time and i don't wanna do this and no one cares haha
to the judges, I have a question still: would you allow this to be accepted if it's at the quality it's at so far, even IF it's slower than the current record? (just because of the rules i'm using)
I make music videos for a semi-living/hobby, so if anyone wants an action one made, i can do it easy for sure, i'm good with audio timing/synching by far :P
if you want to see a hobby video I made of an anime (prince of tennis) for an example, having to use material that someone else has already made (i.e. stuff i didn't film since it's an anime), check it out here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCMJ0KjXP60
and if you wanna see the first music video i ever made, a real life one;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBmkKSiR5EA
Ok, so far i've gotten it to the first boss (not beaten him yet, just to him).
The video is not a "true" speed run in that I do take a second or two one one or two points in the video to show a weird glitch I found or because I can't do anything but stop and duck a shuriken due to a ton of them being on screen (since i'm not killing anyone, etc.)
the problem i'm having is this;
what the hell do you export this in? I've worked with film for two years now but every damn codec I have corrupts the sound on this thing, even if I pick to synch to the movie or not, and even if i put to add sound to the AVI or not through the program.
Any suggestions on codecs?
Also, if this run was slower (not by a lot, just some) than the run that's currently being uploaded, would it stand a strong chance of being denied acceptance, even *though* it played under much harsher settings, thus explaining the slower time?
I'd be more interested in run trough the game without extra modifiers (and I've been planning to do one foreever but never got around to doing it), but I can't really say until I've seen an example. So go ahead and try out a level.
Rainbow jump... is that the official name for the somersault or something?
yeah. they call it that (sega) in some manuals because when you throw the shuriken out, it seems to form a rainbow, see? :P
I'll have the example up by the weekend, I have some film/school projects i'm working on, plus i've been trying to research the frame data on the game myself.
So far i've found out this;
Shinobi (the main character, calling him joe just seems weird) has one frame of invincibility in most cases when touching a static "trap" object (spikes, etc.)
When you're doing frame advance, the movement will activate on the third frame. Meaning if you hold down C for jump, and use frame advance, on the third frame the jump will start. This seems to be this way for almost every single action Shinobi does.
When running using frame advance, the lowest i've gotten the break down to for running is one frame standing and then going immediately into the run (after a jump or such); sometimes I get lucky and there are no standing frames, but I have no idea how to do this on command.
For a weird trick, get Shinobi into a run, and while he's running, double tap the opposite direction, then press frame advance, then double tap the original direction, frame advance, repeat from opposite direction etc.
If you do that right, Shinobi will run at half his normal pace, but only stay on the original frame of the original direction of his running, making him appear to just float across the ground with one foot. I didn't see this in any other videos, if it's there, I didn't mean to steal it from there; just discovered it on my own.
The fastest you can get into a kick that dives you down into the ground, is the first frame of being "in the air" (jumping animation, etc.)
Shuriken will not hurt Shinobi unless he's DIRECTLY in contact with it; meaning if the very tip of it is touching him he's ok. However since ducking takes three frames, as does blocking, etc. you will definitely have to plan ahead.
Anything else I could use advice on for glitches, etc. that would maybe help me avoid enemies, or well known glitches to skip parts of levels? :)
Would it be more interesting than just playing through the game the fastest possible way?
possibly, since to do this would be absolutely insane.
this is because just for example, in the first level, to even get through the initial "section" of the level, there are at least 10+ enemies and three different types, all squashed together.
if you're killing them it's easy, but with the main character's movements being very inertiatic (is that even a word?) you really are stuck maintaining your motion; if you move backwards in the air, you lose a ton of momentum in most cases.
Not to mention the rainbow jump can only be done at the peak of a jump, and the only other modifier to jumps is the downward kick, which has to be done with caution to not kill enemies, or hit item boxes.
I'll do a test run of the first level, try that out, and see if you guys think it's interesting enough to do the whole game, would that be ok?
ALWAYS check latest post to see for more news on WIP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyGtL9GtLaU = COMPILATION MUSIC VIDEO OF THE BEST STUFF IN THE VIDEO
on my same youtube profile there's the full video in four parts also, so check it out
- no damage
- no killing of ANY enemies (except in cases where enemies block path/need to do so to advance stage/bosses)
- no items
- no ninjitsu
- expert level
- no shuriken
EDIT: NEW FILE UP---v (game finished)
http://deepbluevibe.phpwebhosting.com/shinobi3.zip
has the gmv and gst files. (I heard it's bad to include one of these or something, fill me in on this? didn't see it in the FAQ or forum rules, apparently one of them lets you link to roms? o.o )
the rom name is Shinobi_3_-_Return_of_the_Ninja_Master_(U)_[!]
oh, also, this is a speed run yes, but it is not meant to compete with the top speed time. This is a glitch/entertainment video, meant to show ways to play the game that would definitely be 100% impossible (at times) without tool assist, such as the stage 2 boss or stage 3 midboss (hell, all of stage three's lab part), etc.
Also, some people i've shown this to tell me to "hit an enemy earlier" or they ask why i wasted time in an area before attacking or something of that sort.
I just wanted to explain some things/reasons why I do the things i do in this video;
- on all of the bosses, I am hitting them at, or one frame after, the first available frame to hit them (minus the first boss).
This is either because I cannot jump kick fast enough (which looks far more impressive to me than just slashing everything, plus i don't have the powerup so my kicks are actually stronger than slashes);
or it's because since i'm without a powerup + jump kicking them, the area to hit them in WITHOUT being hurt myself is maybe two or three pixels, if you want an example, try and do what I did on the level 3 midboss yourself; to stay in the air constantly like I did took forever because if you are off by even a pixel or two, the little brains will trade hits with you.
- I am purposefully doing such acrobatics to make the video more interesting; i could have just stood up on the conveyer belt and slashed all of the brains, but i figured wasting a few seconds and doing what I did was far more interesting.
I'm going more for entertainment than beating the best speed time; while I am rushing forward as much as possible (like in the part after the elevator), the rules I have set on myself make complete forward movement almost impossible in most cases (like the lab in level 3).
Even with this being said, once I finish this, I hope it'll be accepted. :)