I'd be more interested in run trough the game without extra modifiers (and I've been planning to do one foreever but never got around to doing it), but I can't really say until I've seen an example. So go ahead and try out a level.
Rainbow jump... is that the official name for the somersault or something?
yeah. they call it that (sega) in some manuals because when you throw the shuriken out, it seems to form a rainbow, see? :P
I'll have the example up by the weekend, I have some film/school projects i'm working on, plus i've been trying to research the frame data on the game myself.
So far i've found out this;
Shinobi (the main character, calling him joe just seems weird) has one frame of invincibility in most cases when touching a static "trap" object (spikes, etc.)
When you're doing frame advance, the movement will activate on the third frame. Meaning if you hold down C for jump, and use frame advance, on the third frame the jump will start. This seems to be this way for almost every single action Shinobi does.
When running using frame advance, the lowest i've gotten the break down to for running is one frame standing and then going immediately into the run (after a jump or such); sometimes I get lucky and there are no standing frames, but I have no idea how to do this on command.
For a weird trick, get Shinobi into a run, and while he's running, double tap the opposite direction, then press frame advance, then double tap the original direction, frame advance, repeat from opposite direction etc.
If you do that right, Shinobi will run at half his normal pace, but only stay on the original frame of the original direction of his running, making him appear to just float across the ground with one foot. I didn't see this in any other videos, if it's there, I didn't mean to steal it from there; just discovered it on my own.
The fastest you can get into a kick that dives you down into the ground, is the first frame of being "in the air" (jumping animation, etc.)
Shuriken will not hurt Shinobi unless he's DIRECTLY in contact with it; meaning if the very tip of it is touching him he's ok. However since ducking takes three frames, as does blocking, etc. you will definitely have to plan ahead.
Anything else I could use advice on for glitches, etc. that would maybe help me avoid enemies, or well known glitches to skip parts of levels? :)
Also, if this run was slower (not by a lot, just some) than the run that's currently being uploaded, would it stand a strong chance of being denied acceptance, even *though* it played under much harsher settings, thus explaining the slower time?
Ok, so far i've gotten it to the first boss (not beaten him yet, just to him).
The video is not a "true" speed run in that I do take a second or two one one or two points in the video to show a weird glitch I found or because I can't do anything but stop and duck a shuriken due to a ton of them being on screen (since i'm not killing anyone, etc.)
the problem i'm having is this;
what the hell do you export this in? I've worked with film for two years now but every damn codec I have corrupts the sound on this thing, even if I pick to synch to the movie or not, and even if i put to add sound to the AVI or not through the program.
Any suggestions on codecs?
This is very entertaining so far. Please continue.
I wonder if you could manipulate enemies to throw their shuriken more advantageously on the first level. If you're stuck waiting, it'd be faster to duck under a tight cluster of shuriken than to have them more spread out.
This is very entertaining so far. Please continue.
I wonder if you could manipulate enemies to throw their shuriken more advantageously on the first level. If you're stuck waiting, it'd be faster to duck under a tight cluster of shuriken than to have them more spread out.
Awesome, did you see the original file or the latest one I just put up in the first post?
and is anyone else interested in this? Just because yes, i'm making this because it's fun, but I also want to make sure there's some interest besides just one person after seeing the video :P school, film work, etc. is also takin up time and i don't wanna do this and no one cares haha
to the judges, I have a question still: would you allow this to be accepted if it's at the quality it's at so far, even IF it's slower than the current record? (just because of the rules i'm using)
You might want to post your WIPs on your latest posts cause not everyone checks the first post, especially on multiple pages.
Anyway, aside from the things I pointed out to you on AIM (wasting time/not frame optimizing), this would be an interesting run to watch, although you could maybe find more interesting things to do in pauses than wiggle back and forth, as it gets annoying after a while...
yeah, there's just not much else to do because of the way the game's setup, the elevator stuff was interesting i think but;
any action you give your character takes three frames to activate.
because of that i'm able to do glitches like the floating running, or the extremely quick downwards attack from a jump, but almost none of his moves are interupptable by any of his other moves, EXCEPT a jump will cancel out all moves you're doing (except obviously the downwards attack etc.)
i mean i'm not being condescending but any other suggestions you guys have for stuff to do to screw around, i'd appreciate em :P i got an idea for the "canisters of brains" boss that should be pretty entertaining if i can pull it off...
the real insanity is going to be the final levels, especially the dojo and vertical falling rocks level, oh god.
New zip file in first link/post, same link but the zip file's updated. also get it here at http://deepbluevibe.phpwebhosting.com/shinobi3.zip
now up to 8 minutes, to halfway point of 3rd level; due to some suggestions, I get kinda silly/crazy with some stuff on the elevator at the halfway point (being one pixel away from guards, mimicing their movements, barely missing being crushed, other stunts).
On the level 2 boss, I actually found a GOOD use for the wall-scale using the jump kick-glitch; I was able to just float up the wall while it tried to zap me, and was able to drop kick it the minute it stopped, doing some pretty crazy aerial stunts/combos on it.
The third level is insanity; i can't even believe I was able to make it through that with these conditions i put on myself, and the mid-boss battle i redid like 20 times (not re-record; i mean I went through it and re-did the entire battle 20 or so times)
leave some more comments guys :D
>When you're doing frame advance, the movement will activate on the third frame.
This is normal. Every game I've tried so far has a two-frame delay (or three depending on how you count) between button and action.
>I didn't see this in any other videos, if it's there, I didn't mean to steal it from there; just discovered it on my own.
I've done the floating running too, but I did it just by tapping forward at some intervals (which I don't remember).
>Also, if this run was slower (not by a lot, just some) than the run that's currently being uploaded, would it stand a strong chance of being denied acceptance, even *though* it played under much harsher settings, thus explaining the slower time?
With my judging hat on: that depends a lot more on how entertaining people would think it was (votes), than the actual difference in time.
I haven't seen your movie yet (because the gaming computer is taken at the moment) but I'll be back with comments when I have.
I'm watching it now. Suggestions:
- While you duck for the shuriken hailstorm in the first level, crawl forward
- On the last enemy before you enter the caves, you could have moved forward more during your jump over him
- When you jump over the small ledges in the entrance to the caves, you don't need to jump kick, the landing animation will not play during low jumps
- Is it impossible to slash the samurais while standing on the ground (not jumping over the energy waves)?
- I don't like the twiching, but that's personal taste.
- You did a lot more hits the second round against the boss samurai than you did the first
- First rope climbing area was not optimal (obvious because you hit the right wall, should have fallen earlier)
- Wall climbing was suboptimal (you lost height before grabbing the wall). You shouldn't somersault after climbing a wall since your forward velocity decreases then. (the accepted version does this too)
- You can jump over the chasm before the boss with the somersault, no climbing is needed.
- Going trough the charging boss was cool, but jumping over him is quicker (the accepted version makes a similar mistake)
- Non-equal number of hits on the yellow ninja in the horse level.
- Final hit on him could be more to the left (earlier).
- Nice tricks in the elevator.
- You didn't enter the boss room as soon as possible.
- About second boss (and others too): isn't the slicing more effective than the jumpkicks?
- After getting trough the brains jumping out of green canisters and falling down, you should jumpkick to go right at the same time.
So I'd say it needs a lot of refinement, but it could be an interesting concept.
= I'm going to reply to the ones that I think I need to inform you on some stuff about;
- On the last enemy before you enter the caves, you could have moved forward more during your jump over him
= I tried moving forward more as much as possible; moving forward at all past where I was, had I done the drop kick after (waited longer by moving forward I mean in the air) it would have hit the guy.
- When you jump over the small ledges in the entrance to the caves, you don't need to jump kick, the landing animation will not play during low jumps
= yeah, i just did that for messing around.
- Is it impossible to slash the samurais while standing on the ground (not jumping over the energy waves)?
= yes. if you don't have the power shuriken, you will get hit no matter what.
- I don't like the twiching, but that's personal taste.
= i do a lot less of that as time goes on as you saw, did you get the latest run?
- You did a lot more hits the second round against the boss samurai than you did the first
= this is because had i done a lot the first round, i would have killed him with one final blow AFTER waiting for the attack; i wanted it to be all in one stream with the final blow.
- Going trough the charging boss was cool, but jumping over him is quicker (the accepted version makes a similar mistake)
= Yeah, i'm semi-going for speed remember, but i'm far more going for entertainment. I would estimate the final video will be about 3 or so minutes slower than the fastest run due to lack of... well, everything.
- Non-equal number of hits on the yellow ninja in the horse level.
= Had to do it that way; without shuriken you can only get one hit on him when he jumps over to the left, and the rest of the hits, it's random to be able to get two hits with jumping down + slash
- Final hit on him could be more to the left (earlier).
= True, I just wanted it to be shown more.
- You didn't enter the boss room as soon as possible.
= Yeah, i know.
- About second boss (and others too): isn't the slicing more effective than the jumpkicks?
= Yes, but I couldn't keep myself in the air that way; i'm going for entertainment again. So i'm wondering, taking into account that I am going for a *fast* time but with these restrictions, by far not the fastest, if I keep up doing weird tricks like i'm doing, do you think it has a chance of being accepted?
The real craziness will be the rock falling level, the dojo level (that'll be a miracle of god) and the final boss with these settings.
i haven't put up a new file yet, but i'm at the 4th level boss now. i never touched the ground more than twice during the third level boss, something to look forward to soon :P
also in the 4th level i got rid of most of my shurikens pretty fast, discovered that there is a limit to them being on screen but the game will still take them away from you if you're pressing the button.
the hitboxes in this game make this challenge of no damage and no damage to others insanely hard >< but i'm still treading through, 13 minutes, 40 seconds at 4th stage boss
Wow, on the level 4 stuff, I pulled off some CRAZY stuff on the boss; I think I killed it faster than the game intended, i don't remember it tweaking out blue like that.
Basically due to programming whatever, the jump kick during the level 4 boss works amazingly well; i'm able to register a hit every two frames since the boss doesn't flash like almost every other boss in the game, which enables me to beat the first form of the boss in just a few seconds.
The latter two forms are almost just as fast, and i do some crazy missle dodging in the last form.
However there's some bad news; Would you all consider it ok if I used *one* shuriken?The video stops right where i'm having problems. (it always casts a ninjitsu when the video ends for some weird reason, that's not part of the video)
Basically you would normally throw a shuriken to break the box and then it would blow up the platform. (two if you want it to go faster).
As you see I can get over there using the kick glitch.
However, I absolutely *cannot* get back. Using fujin doesn't do anything; even though I can jump higher, this doesn't help length if there's a low ceiling.
I've tried jumping back using frame advance (as i have done just about everything in this video) and not in a single frame can you grab the ceiling to go back again, nor can i get enough length to get back over, and i can't even start the kick glitch because I can't get back over enough.
So would you guys still consider this impressive/a legit "no shuriken" run if I *had* to use shuriken to beat that part? Same way as that it's a "no harming enemies run" even though i have to kill bosses and such.
Also, in case you didn't notice in the first post, there's a new file up;
http://deepbluevibe.phpwebhosting.com/shinobi3.zip
well, i used the one shuriken anyways.
I'm at the final elevator on the final level, at 24:45, so i think it'll finish somewhere between 27 and 28 minutes.
pretty good for a run without shuriken, ninjitsu, damaging the enemy or myself, and no powerup items :D
i beat the dragon boss pretty quickly too in an interesting fashion, and neozeed was bullshit hard to find interesting things to do with (or even to damage effectively without shuriken) but i did it pretty decently i think.
I'll probably have the video done by saturday or sunday night. :)
I think the same as last time, that there are a lot of obvious optimizations that you don't make, and that having extra restrictions on your run isn't an excuse to be sloppy. I won't bother listing them since you don't seem to be interested in fixing them.
Moreover, against the water boss, you "kill" some missiles, which is not necessary for game completion. This interferes with your pacifict restriction, I think.
I tried to get back over from the platform where you stopped in your movie, but like you I couldn't find any way to do it.
I'm still interested in this, but I agree that it's not publishable in its current state. It's great as a proof of concept and I hope you'll redo it once you're done.
I think the same as last time, that there are a lot of obvious optimizations that you don't make, and that having extra restrictions on your run isn't an excuse to be sloppy. I won't bother listing them since you don't seem to be interested in fixing them.
Moreover, against the water boss, you "kill" some missiles, which is not necessary for game completion. This interferes with your pacifict restriction, I think.
I tried to get back over from the platform where you stopped in your movie, but like you I couldn't find any way to do it.
i'm interested in the optimizations;
it's just that a lot of them you may not understand why i can't do them.
i'm going to publish this run just so people can see it once i'm done, but i will go back over it, so i'd still like the advice.
i'm going to post some gifs showing hitboxes too, so you can understand why i do some of the things i do, and some gifs showing some of the glitches and other things i need to explain.
also, i killed a lazer beam and a fan later on; i had to kill that missle or else i would have been hit no matter what in that situation, jumping on him like that, i had to kill the missles or i would have gotten hit no matter what due to the hitboxes in this game being massive.
i could have just backed off and done nothing, but really that would have just wasted time and looked stupid.
i mean i know there's some optimization in places, but a lot of it, no offense, is the best anyone could possibly do, just due to the hitboxes in the game being skewed and such, even if it does look sloppy. 99% of the time you jump kick someone in this game, the game sucks you into the enemy and you get hit, so that's why i can only get short bursts of hits like that, and even then timing those takes tons of tries.
but definitely tell me the stuff you think i should improve and i'll try to do it in the next run.
you gotta admit i wasted that level 4 boss fast though :P especially the first form haha
It will probably be rejected for not being optimized and you'll have to go over it anyway, but you can make an AVI of it yourself and post it in this thread to get more criticism.
It will probably be rejected for not being optimized and you'll have to go over it anyway, but you can make an AVI of it yourself and post it in this thread to get more criticism.
the only codec that works for gens for me is fucking huffyuv, and that = 4 megs per SECOND >< and that's at lowest quality lmao
so i will probably submit it, do a huge ass submission text with tons of info about what i did in certain parts and why i did it, and gifs going with it
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
REALMENDON"TWAITFORTHESHURIKENS!!!
There's a huge difference between normal play and tool-assisted.
(and remember... I've never played this game before)
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
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