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Doomsday31415
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Potato wrote:
It's a story that hasn't fully been written yet unfortunately.
Oh no, that's fine! That just means there's still secrets left to be found. :)
Doomsday31415
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Acumenium wrote:
This should have the "executes arbitrary code" tag when it is submitted though since it seems to be reaching the end of the game the same way that it is done in Super Mario World, which has it.
Funny you should mention that, because I based the category list off that submission, which I also did. The reason the other tags aren't included is because they don't exist on this page: http://tasvideos.org/MovieTokens.html It would appear the page is missing certain, new ones.
Doomsday31415
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Awesome stuff. Great to see a TAS of this game. Starting at 44:10, it's clear some very bad things are going on. There's no way to use this to ACE to the credits? Yes vote either way.
Doomsday31415
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I found the original wrong warp almost immediately. Without realizing it wouldn't work on console, I went to the trouble of fully optimizing it before going to the TASBot discord to have them verify it. So that was a nice red herring. As for the HDMA route, it was already known that you could fall through the floor by using the invisible animal glitch. All I had to do was experiment with it a little to find out that it caused a BRK. From there, it took a week or two to understand why it was randomly doing non-Open Bus commands while on Open Bus, and then decide to actually pursue this route that probably won't be verified on console due to what that would require. After optimizing the rest of the route and checking the various discords to see if they spotted anything off, I spent dozens of hours going through hundreds (thousands?) of different input combinations in order to find one that actually did what I wanted. I wasn't actually prepared for it to corrupt my data bank and direct page registers, so it took several hours beyond that to figure out a way to fix it... But now that's done, and it works great!
Doomsday31415
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Very cool stuff! The teamplay with the AI was great. Since this is a playaround, I think including the credits and Ness fight in the actual submission would make sense.
Doomsday31415
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To clear up any confusion, DES had almost no direct input in the TAS that was submitted. The reason they were initially included as a co-author was because the TAS they made that significantly improved on Dooty's TAS was never submitted to TASVideos. The fact that a lot of strategies and movement was based on their "unpublished" TAS as opposed to Dooty's published TAS does not change the amount of effort I put in to further optimizing it (their TAS had hundreds of thousands of rerecords not seen in the published TAS).
Doomsday31415
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I wasn't planning to vote since I haven't seen many of the year's TAS's, but since this looked to be a tie, I decided to take a look to see if I should change my mind on that. Here's my reasoning: Looking at the submissions of both myself (Doomsday31415) and nymx, each made one big submission and one collaboration. The collaborations are relatively small, so they'll be ignored for this comparison and the focus will be on "the big ones". In general, both submissions got wildly good praise, had detailed explanations, and had a ton of work put into them. As evidenced by the fact they're tied in the SNES TAS of the year (albeit losing to a third submission), they're both clearly impressive. So if I think they're both the same level, why vote for one over the other? Simple: the comparison video. Simply put, my submission includes a comparison video, and this is something everyone submitting should include. It's likely part of the reason why the entertainment rating is so much higher (although it's unclear how much of that is just the length of the other game). This advantage also extends to the collaboration. In other words, if by voting myself into the lead I can encourage others to make comparison videos for their submissions, I think it's a good cause.
Doomsday31415
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Wow, this is very different from the SNES version. I had assumed the GBA was basically a portable SNES, but the visuals, sound, and music are way worse across the board here. That has nothing to do with the TAS itself, of course. The first thing anyone who's seen the SNES TAS's will notice is the almost complete lack of glitches/skips here. There's no wrong warps, there's no quick goals or switches... there isn't even any clipping through terrain such as in Bramble Blast! Of course, this is a port many years later, with a new engine where they had plenty of time to see the previous glitches. I assume you guys tried out all the glitches from the SNES version? The second thing that sticks out like a sore thumb is how slow Diddy moves compared to the SNES version. Again, it's a different engine, so it makes sense to an extent, but it begs the question: is Dixie even slower? In DKC3, Dixie and Kiddy move at approximately the same speed, so the best kong to use varied depending on the situation. I'm also curious if it would be better to sacrifice Dixie at some point to reduce the lag in Parrot Chute Panic. All that being said, the glitches and skips that were used were cool, the movement looks optimized, and this makes for a good baseline for the GBA version of DKC2. Yes vote.
Doomsday31415
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Amazing, although the Yoshi's facing the wrong way.
Doomsday31415
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Nope, this change only came up when it did because (I'm assuming) someone talked to DES about the recently published TAS. I see no other issues, so that should be it.
Doomsday31415
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Sorry, I asked Mothrayas to update you on the situation depending on how it went, but I guess that never happened. :( In summary, DES requested to be removed as a co-author due to lack of involvement in the current TAS. This was confirmed in a discord chat room with Mothrayas present.
Doomsday31415
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This run has the same limitation with the SRAM.
Doomsday31415
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Spikestuff wrote:
If possible. Can I request an encode with several Marios lua script to see a comparison.
I didn't use a lua script, but it is done. I've updated the submission accordingly.
Doomsday31415
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Patashu wrote:
Is it known what the emulator/console difference is that allows two frame payloads to work only on emulator? I would think lsnes is very accurate to console, so this is surprising.
The two frame payload jumps back to Open Bus repeatedly in order to stall until the input is updated. On emulator, there's a few different jumps that work for this purpose. Unfortunately, there's no way to trace what's happening on console to find out why they don't work there.
Doomsday31415
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If I were to guess based on my experience with the SNES version, the bosses would take fewer hits. I'd also hazard a guess that the stampede is even shorter. That's just me guessing though. It's worth looking into.
Doomsday31415
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feos wrote:
Also, in Moons we explicitly allow esoteric goals as long as the definition feels solid and the movie is entertaining, the guideline you quoted existed long before we created tiers, and can't be taken as a rule in such cases.
I'm not saying this run should be rejected. I'm saying I think the guideline is unclear/misleading and should be updated.
Doomsday31415
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Memory wrote:
Two things. One, they're guidelines, they're not rules. Two, he presses y there in that spot to grab a barrel, not to run.
Guideline or rule, this still blatantly goes against it. If the guideline can be ignored this easily, how's anyone supposed to tell when to actually follow it? The restriction on this run is "minimal Y presses". If it wasn't, it would be faster to pick up barrels in a variety of places.
Doomsday31415
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I was reading through the Guidelines for something else and read something that contradicts accepting this run.
Do not impose artificial restrictions on the run. Such as “No usage of this particular weapon”, “Both high score and fast time” (how should we compare that run to a future one?), or “No jumping except where necessary”. It is possible to set auxiliary goals, such as “as high a score as possible without wasting time”, but, as stated, it must not interfere with the primary goal of fastest completion.
This run very clearly falls under "no pressing Y except where necessary". Perhaps the guideline could be clarified?
Doomsday31415
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Mothrayas wrote:
Only avoiding some minor tricks does not add any new TAS material. The restrictions do not generate any routing changes, content changes, or add anything new. It's just a slightly slower version of the normal run.
Ah, okay. Fair enough. By the way, why is the timing for SMB on the axe grab instead of the last input?
Doomsday31415
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While I have doubts the same thing will apply here, it's worth pointing out that there are categories in some games where restrictions are put in place, such as no BLJ in Super Mario 64 or no powerups, maximum exits in Super Mario World. These categories show new content and/or new strategies not seen in the other categories for a game. With that in mind, the only way I see this submission getting published is as a restricted category (e.g. no L+R). As with all the others, it will need to be well-defined what the restrictions are and entertaining enough to make it into Moons. As I'm relatively new here, though, I may be misunderstanding things. There's also no encoding right now to actually see it. Thoughts?
Doomsday31415
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I think there is a lot of value in "human theory" TAS's. Unlike most TAS's, these can serve as benchmarks and comparisons for speedrunners. As such, I'd say this should be its own category.
Doomsday31415
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nymx wrote:
Decent re-record count.
The re-record count is actually a little misleading since I reloaded the tasproj every time I wanted to revert experimentation (I didn't know about branches).
Doomsday31415
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Oh yeah, I forgot that it only happened after I re-added the grabbing of the first red shell (when the shell was at 0x73 instead of 0x72, there was no way to avoid landing on it). Like you said, the shell had to be in slot 9 or else a berry (?) that happens to despawn at a bad time would be where the chuck goes. So wait, does that mean it's checking collision with half the objects each frame? That's pretty clever. I also came up with a significantly smaller payload and a way to make it work in only two frames instead of five (at least starting from the end of submission #2604's movement), but I'd rather not have the only improvement be shrinking the payload... The new payload basically calls into the part of the game end logic that sets the two flags, so it only has to decrement X and do a JSR instead of the 9 bytes normally needed to accomplish the same. That combined with taking another trip on open bus instead of waiting properly for the next frame makes it possible to do in only two frames. I'm not sure how well it'll work on real hardware, but it has enough leeway that it should be at least possible.
Doomsday31415
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I should probably read all this, but while I'm here... I've been working on optimizing the existing credits warp TAS, and discovered you can start moving with Yoshi a frame earlier if your Y subpixel is sufficiently high when you snap to him. Unfortunately, that frame is lost because the Koopa shell is only kicked every other frame and the Chuck only spawns every other frame, not to mention the fireballs only activate every four frames... Any ideas?
Doomsday31415
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The fact that DK does in fact run quite frequently because of the barrels makes any label that uses that a recipe for confusion. If there was a category where the Y button was held the entire game, what would be the label for that? I'd imagine this would have a similar label.