Former player
Joined: 6/25/2006
Posts: 138
Location: Fort Collins, CO
I'd comment on your run but I haven't been able to watch it because it desyncs on YI2. Did you use the newest version of snes9x? I think it is called improvemnt-9 or something like that. Also do you know what "emulator sync settings" you had checked when you recorded?
Former player
Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO
jimsfriend wrote:
It is impossible, JXQ showed me.
Can someone post this demo of SW5?
Former player
Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign
Yeah This isn't wall jumps only, but the last one is impossible to make.
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Former player
Joined: 6/25/2006
Posts: 138
Location: Fort Collins, CO
My method of getting out of the cloud and hopping at 52 doesn't work because there is no way to get the cloud out from under you. The flying method should work fine though unless the game doesn't not allow you to fly at a speed of 52. I have jumped off of the cloud and went straight into flight before so I don't see why it won't work. I can't test it tonight but maybe tomorrow. I still don't think a walljump is necessary to get up to the key in SW5. I am pretty sure a shell bounce and a p jump will get you up to the key. The two walljumps and a shell bounce is probably the fastest way but we have to make sure getting up there is possible first before we try the trickier/faster methods. EDIT: I didn't see jimsfriend's post before. That video looked pretty cool. Too bad that last jump didn't work. Doesn't this mean that the picture jimsfriend posted will work? That trick could have been possible if he had a pswitch. It guess it would be a tiny bit different than the picture. The method would be walljump, shell bounce, walljump, p-jump. Wouldn't this be possible?
Former player
Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO
Thanks for the video jimsfriend. I went ahead and made a very crappy demo of the cloud thing but it gets the point across. I mess up a lot, causing my final speed once I start hopping on the ground to be 48 instead of the desired 52. When I first hop out of the could, I start at 51 instead of 52, then lose 2 speed units (which I will call "luigis") on a bad hop glitch on the blocks and lose another luigi when I jump out of the cloud again. I'm not sure if a luigi is lost every time you land in the cloud and then jump back out again, maybe I just did it bad. I'm pretty sure this is the case and it is possible to jump out of the cloud without losing speed, so keeping up a 52 throughout the level is indeed possible. Just hop in and out of the cloud and once it disappears/once you find a way to not jump back into it just do the hop glitch on the ground. I dont know how you're supposed to start flying using this trick though. The only place that it would probably save time would be Sky World 2, in which case it would let you exceed the normal 51 flight speed and get it at the very beginning of the level. For FoI4, I doubt that the time it takes to get into the cloud would be worth getting the one extra luigi for the rest of the level, but I could be wrong. It would probably make FoI4 faster small though (49 vs 52). Also, SW3 small could benefit from this.
JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
Sky World 2 & 2b could both be improved from this trick (or just the left+right cloud trick, though barely). I don't think it would improve Sky Star World, though, if I'm remembering the position of the cloud correctly. Edit: Greginator replied while I was lazily typing, so I basically repeated him.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
So me, JXQ and thegreginator were discussing this damn CI3 gap and how to cross it and both JXQ and me tried out the proposed strategy, and it didn't quite work out despite it being very close bla bla. So after you left JXQ, me and greginator kept discussing it and I tried out various stuff, with nothing working. And just now after greginator just left I came REALLY REALLY close to getting it, using a new strategy. So damn frustrating, maybe you can improve my idea here JXQ or something. Here's an smv Edit: Also, I just tested the lakitu cloud thing to make sure it worked, and it is indeed possible to start hopping at speed=52.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
Here's the best I could do on Chocolate Island 3 small. It's so close it's painful, but the only way I can think to make it farther is to do the shell juggling initiating at the edge so the first shell is higher up when it starts falling to the right. If that was possible (and also appropriate speeds could be kept), then the jump should be makeable. In slightly related news, jimsfriend's latest idea for Star World 5 small proved to be successful.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
mrz
Former player
Joined: 8/24/2006
Posts: 119
Location: New York City
can you please send me a link to where i can find it? i searched everywherre but i cant find it
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2006
Posts: 138
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2006
Posts: 138
Location: Fort Collins, CO
AHH that video was so close. Is there anyway to do the same thing but jump later so you bounce off the far right side of the first shell instead of the far left. It seemed like that one square difference would get you across. Or can you wait to do that second shell jump when you are near the bottom. You don't fall far enough right in the movie because you jump off the second shell right away. If you let youself fall right more and then bounce off the shell you might be able to get closer to the platform.
mrz
Former player
Joined: 8/24/2006
Posts: 119
Location: New York City
the site is really really slow, i cant even go to it
Former player
Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO
Oh awesome idea Fabian, and awesome executing of it JXQ. Sooo close! I think skamastaG is right that you could jump off the platform a bit later. See this screenshot. You have about 3 pixels room to continue running before you jump. That way, once you jump, you will be closer to the shell and can then jump off of the right side of it, which will make you go a bit further, hopefully far enough to make it. I cant really tell if height or distance is the problem here, but you could always get more height if you do the second shell jump sooner, and more distance if you do it later. There is a balance point somewhere. Almost got it! For SW5, is getting the p-switch the only possible way to make it? In a related question, is it ever possible to walljump off the green pipe to the left? Thats good news about the lakitu cloud Fabian, it could help in a few different places. Thanks a lot everyone, all these demos and testing of new methods will prove very helpful for our TAS. :) EDIT: JXQ's SW5 video is a good example of corner boosting on land when he runs across the grey platforms that are one square apart. There is a noticeable boost if watched in frame advance. EDIT 2: Jumping sooner or later wouldnt actually affect anything. Disregard what I said in the first paragraph.
Former player
Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
Awesome. I just cannot set up that damn shell scenario to save my life. Maybe you should try SW4 with that same technique, the way you suggested me to try before, but that I couldn't do due to shell setup.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Former player
Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign
You are evil. Maybe later.
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Player (224)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 399
Whoah.
<adelikat> I've been quoted with worse
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2006
Posts: 138
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Great job on that jimsfriend! The number of exits is now 86. DGH TSA exit, CBA SL exit, SL*, VoB4, SW1 gate exit, SW1 key exit still cannot be done. That makes 6 exits plus the 4 switch palaces. -DGH is impossible because those boos are not spinjumpable and there is no wall to walljump up. -CBA is impossble because you need a yoshi or a cape and there isn't a single shell or pswitch or anything to use to get under the goal. -Soda Lake cannot be reached because of CBA. -VoB 4 requres a yoshi for the key. Even if you could use items to push yourself through the wall there is no ground so you would die. Even if you have an item with you to jump off of to get to the key, you cannot get back out so it is impossible. -SW1 both exits cannot be completed small because of the blocks that you have to be big to break. I am almost 100% sure that the number of exits will be 86.
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
Neat. Well done jimsfriend.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Former player
Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign
JXQ made this demo for me a while back. Maybe it could be imroved. It looks to me like if mario jumped from a lower spot on the rope he would make it, but I don't know if this is possible.
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mrz
Former player
Joined: 8/24/2006
Posts: 119
Location: New York City
ok i got it, and here it is. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/get/1774/11minutespeedrun.smv But it messes up at the ghost house again. Can someone please help, this keeps on happening, somewhere it messes up
Former player
Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO
Awesome CI3 jimsfriend. I have been thinking about this run, and I think disallowing Switch Palces is a pointless restriction for it. Sure it makes some levels harder, but that is not the goal of this run. The goal of this run is to complete as many levels as possible with small Mario, which is in direct conflict with leaving out Switch Palaces. This would create 4 exits that we would pass up for no good reason. If we start saying things like "small only with no switch palaces," we might as well say "no using spinjumps or getting Yoshi coins" or something like that. I dont want this run to turn into a concept demo, I want it to just be a simple low% run without lots of extra pointless rules. When people watch the run, they will wonder why the Switch Palaces are skipped, and there would be no good reason to give them. I think that the Switch Palaces should be done. Does anyone else have thoughts on this? If Switch Palaces are done, the only levels I can think of that would be significantly affected would be SW4 key and SW5 key (for SW5 you could make the block snake take you up to the switch block rows and just run across, which would make the level much faster). As far as what levels are possible or not: I dont want to jump to conclusions and say that CBA (and SL) and VoB4 are impossible. We used to think FoI3 key was impossible too, but jimsfriend found away around that and the same might be able to be done for VoB4. CBA hasnt been tested enough to just consider it impossible right off the bat (and thus SL as well). I'd be willing to concede that DGH is impossible, although it still wouldnt hurt to do a little testing. The only two that I see absolutely no possibility for beating are the two SW1 exits. So if we do Switch Palaces, the best case scenario is 94 (-SW1 x2) exits and the worst case is 90 (-SW1 x2, CBA, SL, VoB4, DGH) exits.
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2006
Posts: 138
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Well I was thinking that the run is a no powerup run. Anything that assists mario is not allowed such as mushrooms, feathers, fireflowers, stars and sitting on a yoshi. Activating switch palaces counts as helping and will make some levels boring. It will completely ruin SW4. Running along the switches is obviously faster so we would be obligated to go that route instead of purposefully wasting time to do a cool trick. Vanilla dome 1 key exit will also be affected by switches. A few other might be too. On the other hand, Jimsfriend skips the switch palaces because his run is minimalist and he is aiming for the least amount of levels as possible. Our run is 100% which means we have to beat every level that small mario is capable of beating. I think the goals would be: Beats every level possible Never gets a powerup These sort of contradict eachother because getting the 4 switch palaces acts as powerups for other levels.
Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose
skamastaG wrote:
On the other hand, Jimsfriend skips the switch palaces because his run is minimalist and he is aiming for the least amount of levels as possible. Our run is 100% which means we have to beat every level that small mario is capable of beating. I think the goals would be: Beats every level possible Never gets a powerup These sort of contradict eachother because getting the 4 switch palaces acts as powerups for other levels.
Forgive my sudden intrusion, as I have been ignoring a lot of SMW talk this summer, but wouldn't a better goal be to beat the whole game, and not get a powerup unless it's absolutely necessary, and use them for the shortest amount of time possible? It just doesn't seem right to exclude levels just because they are impossible to beat small.
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2006
Posts: 138
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Saying except when absolutely necessary is kind of a loose rule and makes people ask what necessary means. I think it will bring controversy so it is better to just leave out. EDIT: Also, would you want to see a run where somebody goes into DP3, gets the cape out of the green switchblock, then start selects just to be able to get the DGH tsa exit? That seems like a waste of time and entertainment to me. Also SW1 for example. Do you want to see someone fall for a minute not doing anything. Maybe as he is falling he picks up the feather. I mean, he might as well since it will make it go faster and he already has a powerup. Than he might as well keep it for the rest of the game since it goes faster. You get the idea. The "only when absolutely necessary" rule is stupid to me as it leaves so much room for debate. This is why I say impossible levels shouuld be skipped.