[1926] NES Contra "pacifist" by Soig & zyr2288 in 09:29.08
After noticing that previous pacifist runs had only one player, I was thinking that we should let this one be part of its own branch. It's probably different enough from the main 2 player pacifist runs.
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despoa wrote:
[1926] NES Contra "pacifist" by Soig & zyr2288 in 09:29.08
After noticing that previous pacifist runs had only one player, I was thinking that we should let this one be part of its own branch. It's probably different enough from the main 2 player pacifist runs.
Have you watched them though? In a pacifist setting the only real difference is bosses, and in the 2p version the pacifist goal itself evolved a bit to use subweapons. In the levels, it's 2 chars jumping over everything instead of 1, which is not substantial imo.
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I don't know the game at all but what was the first run to glitch the save data?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
I have a new question now. Do they look optimized by today's standards?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
That being said, if ending sequence disruption is permitted for games where the ending doesn't even update the save file, shall [2725] SNES Final Fantasy VI by keylie & KadMony in 3:11:39.46 be moved to be branchless with the current branchless movie rebranched to be "glitchless" or something similar if applicable?
This is assuming the ending sequence of FF6 on SNES isn't meant to have effects. I don't know enough about this game to tell if that's the case.
To me it seems like that movie really is glitchless based on the description, but does that fall under the Standard "No Major Skips" category when there are already acceptable any% and this "sketch glitch" movie? If not then un-obsoleting the "sketch glitch" movie and making it obsolete [549] SNES Final Fantasy VI by erokky in 4:05:52.87 seem like a good move especially when the latter is slower than even [1555] SNES Final Fantasy V & VI by neo_omegon in 3:52:15.97.
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Fortranm wrote:
To me it seems like that movie really is glitchless based on the description, but does that fall under the Standard "No Major Skips" category when there are already acceptable any% and this "sketch glitch" movie? If not then un-obsoleting the "sketch glitch" movie and making it obsolete [549] SNES Final Fantasy VI by erokky in 4:05:52.87 seem like a good move especially when the latter is slower than even [1555] SNES Final Fantasy V & VI by neo_omegon in 3:52:15.97.
erokky's run also "Abuses programming errors" so it's not glitchless, and sketch glitch is not a major skip glitch. The obsoletion decision has been questioned from the start, and I think it's safe to revert it now, all things considered.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Note that I use Wheelie Rider kirby a lot, and the helper is lost between games and clearly less important than kirby, so most of the run doesn't look very 2-player.
Hmm... Technically fine probably, and unobsoletion used to only happen for runs that would be accepted by today's standard, but those are both Standard now, so I'm really unsure.
Fortranm wrote:
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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dwangoAC wrote:
on the basis of it being a different category
Elaborate?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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feos wrote:
dwangoAC wrote:
on the basis of it being a different category
Elaborate?
The obsoleting TAS is a 100% TAS while this is a fastest ending TAS employing ACE that demonstrates significantly different mechanics such that it should stand on its own. It should not have been obsoleted and should be its own category instead.
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So if both movies were played optimally (given current knowledge), one would absolutely not include another, right?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
The player already provided a movie file that beats level 20 HI speed with the same inputs used in the submitted movie during level 20, and I was also able to do the same with other levels. This means that the submitted movie does include the inputs of a fastest-completion run in it; in other words, by fulfilling the full-completion goal, it does also fulfil the fastest-completion goal.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
The player already provided a movie file that beats level 20 HI speed with the same inputs used in the submitted movie during level 20, and I was also able to do the same with other levels. This means that the submitted movie does include the inputs of a fastest-completion run in it; in other words, by fulfilling the full-completion goal, it does also fulfil the fastest-completion goal.
That's fine, but they're still *two different goals* - one is finishing all levels, the other is similar to how we handle Tetris. I still assert that there should be a branch that allows for using the built-in start level selection just like Tetris and allows completing the game as fast as possible instead of trudging through a 100%. The current TAS is many years old and can be improved but it should be a separate branch all the same.
Your submission must play the game from the beginning, and must finish the game, or reach the most suitable endpoint the game allows. Level selects, single-level movies, or otherwise incomplete movies are not allowed.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Your submission must play the game from the beginning, and must finish the game, or reach the most suitable endpoint the game allows. Level selects, single-level movies, or otherwise incomplete movies are not allowed.
That's fine, but this is the exact same exception to that rule that [4210] NES Tetris "Mode B" by Archanfel & Baxter in 00:36.89 is under, unless you want to see that one removed from the site as well. As an inclusionist I'm of course always going to advocate that branches are in general not a harm to the site but this is the last I'll argue this, I've provided as much evidence as I can as to why this should be treated like Tetris and if Dr. Mario can't get the same exception I'd rather leave the conversation alone than risk Tetris being delisted as that would be even worse than if I'd not said anything at all.
That's fine, but they're still *two different goals* - one is finishing all levels, the other is similar to how we handle Tetris. I still assert that there should be a branch that allows for using the built-in start level selection just like Tetris and allows completing the game as fast as possible instead of trudging through a 100%. The current TAS is many years old and can be improved but it should be a separate branch all the same.
It’s my understanding that the all levels TAS does the exact same goal as the CtrlAltDestroy, as the last level in the all levels TAS uses the highest difficulty.
If we were to un-obsolete that old movie and put it as its own category, it would be significantly slower than the already fastest version of level 20. In fact, there was already a submission that completes level 20 significantly faster than the obsoleted movie does. I wouldn’t feel comfortable un-obsoleting a movie who’s goal has since been bested not just from other submissions but also by the all levels movie.
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EZGames69 wrote:
It’s my understanding that the all levels TAS does the exact same goal as the CtrlAltDestroy, as the last level in the all levels TAS uses the highest difficulty.
If we were to un-obsolete that old movie and put it as its own category, it would be significantly slower than the already fastest version of level 20. In fact, there was already a submission that completes level 20 significantly faster than the obsoleted movie does. I wouldn’t feel comfortable un-obsoleting a movie who’s goal has since been bested not just from other submissions but also by the all levels movie.
Oh, I very much anticipate that the new branch would fairly quickly have a new submission against it. That's, in many ways, sort of the point - providing a dedicated branch that allows the fastest game completion regardless of method.
But that not only requires the authors of the old tas to make a submission for level 20 (since the submission I linked isn’t even the current fastest level 20 from my understanding), but it would essentially be the equivalent of taking the last inputs of the movie file after the last resync and using that as it’s own separate publication.
I don’t know if the RNG would be the same after said reset compared to first power on, but if it is then I’m not sure what the point would be other than having two separate publications with one just being essentially an identical segment from the all levels pub. It would be redundant in my opinion.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
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EZGames69 wrote:
But that not only requires the authors of the old tas to make a submission for level 20 (since the submission I linked isn’t even the current fastest level 20 from my understanding), but it would essentially be the equivalent of taking the last inputs of the movie file after the last resync and using that as it’s own separate publication.
I don’t know if the RNG would be the same after said reset compared to first power on, but if it is then I’m not sure what the point would be other than having two separate publications with one just being essentially an identical segment from the all levels pub. It would be redundant in my opinion.
We have a somewhat recent example (tho in theory it could have gone to Playground if the author was interested).
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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EZGames69 wrote:
But that not only requires the authors of the old tas to make a submission for level 20 (since the submission I linked isn’t even the current fastest level 20 from my understanding), but it would essentially be the equivalent of taking the last inputs of the movie file after the last resync and using that as it’s own separate publication.
I don’t know if the RNG would be the same after said reset compared to first power on, but if it is then I’m not sure what the point would be other than having two separate publications with one just being essentially an identical segment from the all levels pub. It would be redundant in my opinion.
If it turns out that it's truly exactly the same input and there's no faster way to complete the game than the final level inputs used in the 100% branch I'd concede that point but what I definitely don't want to see happen is the Tetris Mode B branch removed in the future if a run that does all levels but has identical final level input comes up...
For what it’s worth, the current all levels publication says it’s console verified, but I’m unsure how it handles the resets and if it has different rng each time.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
