Welcome to Page 11!
I first discovered "Invincibility Mode" while testing the Warp to Level 6, which we've documented previously in this thread.
It appears that Invincibility can only be activated by way of a warp glitch. It only remains active while you are in the game. If you exit out to the main menu, it goes away. One characteristic of activating Invincibility Mode is that your bottle count is automatically raised to 15. If you exit, and lose Invincibility mode, you will still have 15 bottles when you "Continue", because the stored password contains a modifier for 15 bottles.
I demonstrated in an early test run for Level 13 that you can use Debug Menu to survive a big fall by pausing on the frame of impact, and selecting "Boost Meter." The game does not check until the next frame to see if all of your health is gone. Since "Boost Meter" replenishes all health, the game determines that you did not die, and you may continue to play under certain conditions.
If you do this trick on the frame of impact with spikes, chompers, crushers, or firewalls, you will survive, but become permanently stuck in position, as your sprite set has been shifted to an immovable death pose. Thus, even though you didn't die, the game is essentially frozen, and you need to exit to Main Menu.
(Of course, if you have Debug Menu activated, you can use the Level Jump command to go to a different level. This will allow you to continue playing with Invincibility Mode. As long as you don't go back to Main Menu, you shouldn't lose Invincibility Mode.)
For big falls, you have to be next to a wall when you land, so that the Prince will be forced to jump up to a standing position. If not near a wall, you will shift to the death pose, and remain alive but frozen on the ground.
So Invincibility Mode Routes are only available in levels where certain pits allow you to land next to a wall, and where it actually makes sense to go that way.
When I discovered that Invincibility Mode was being activated by some of these Warp Setups, I noted that it behaved exactly the same as these manual Boost Meter commands. But all this is only one feature of Invincibility Mode. These are the lethal hits. And there are actually multiple types of Invincibility Mode, depending on how many of these lethal hits you can survive. I call them Invincibility Mode 0, 1, or 2.
The other feature of Invincibility Mode is non-lethal hits. For all Invincibility Modes, you can sustain an infinite number of non-lethal hits, like falling 2 levels down, or being swatted by a guard while you are holding your sword.
But for Invincibility Mode 0, that is your only benefit. Any lethal hits will kill you as in normal circumstances.
For Invincibility Mode 1, you can survive one fatal hit, but as I said before, this is only beneficial for a big fall against a wall. Basically every other lethal hit situation will freeze you in place, with no recourse but to exit. (Or Jump to another level with Debug Menu, as I said before.)
For Invincibility Mode 2, you can survive 2 fatal hits, and the 3rd fatal hit will kill you.
For both Invincibility Modes 1 & 2, if you use up your allotted fatal hits for the level, and drink a Big Potion, you will reset the counter, and again have 1 or 2 more fatal hits to survive. Additionally, if you use "Boost Meter" command, you will reset the fatal hits counter.
There are some glitchy semi-invincible modes you can activate with bad warp setups, which can offer protection from 1 lethal hit, but then break the health meter, so that you are no longer invincible after surviving that fatal hit. I mention this in passing, because it's rare to accidentally activate a glitchy semi-invincibility mode.
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I have documented the easiest instance of activating Invincibility Mode 1. This can be accessed by any sprite set. All you have to do is go to level 8, and do the drop glitch at the specified location. You can see me perform this glitch in my first Gate Thief #1 speedrun, which involved a warp to level 6, and activated Invincibility on level 8. I'll repost that video below, for reference.
Invincibility Mode 2 is, as far as I can tell, only accessible when performing a clean warp to level 6 or 8 under certain advanced (complex) setups. I have created setups for Invincibility Mode 2 with the Normal Prince sprite set for warps to levels 6 and 8, and for Gate Thief #1 for warps to levels 6 and 8. I believe I also have created setups for Gate Thief #2, but I'm not sure. The initial setup for Gate Thief #2 is impractical for a clean speedrun, so I've only been using it for individual level runs, for fun. I'll repost the Warp 6 + INV2 video below as well.
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Finally, I must say, the only really important place to save time with Invincibility Mode during an actual speedrun is on Level 14. I'll repost the video link here, so you can see where I survive the Big Fall, and instantly skip to the end of the level. There's another fun place to do a Big Fall on Level 3, which saves a few seconds. I'll post that one as well, for reference.
This provides a good illustration for both of the situations I've discussed. In the level 14 video, I use Debut Menu & Boost Meter Command on the impact frame. While on level 3, I actually have Invincibility Mode activated.
For the Warp to Level 6 with Invincibility Mode 2 video below, notice when fighting the Woman, I allowed her to swat me 20 times, which exceeds the maximum number of hits on the standard health meter. After that, I instantly killed her with the "Kill Button." Afterwards, I further demonstrated the interesting scenario where a falling panel can knock you out of your death pose on the spikes. I then got myself stuck on another set of spikes to show that I could indeed survive 2 fatal hits, although of course the second time, I got stuck!
While I'm providing this all-in-one post about Invincibility Mode, I might as well repost one of the fun applications. I made some Game Genie videos for a couple of levels. On Level 4, I input the "gateless" code, and also activated invincibility mode, so I could run through gates, and do a Big Fall to absolutely destroy the level!
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Edit: since this post, I updated the Level 14 video to HD + Real Invincibility. I will keep the old Level 14 link below, since "simulating Invincibility with Debug Menu" was part of the conversation. Doing the same trick with real invincibility mode can be seen at bottom.
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Level 8, activating Invincibility Mode 1, skip to 5:30.
Skip to 11:10 to see Level 13 Big Fall.
Skip to 13:40 to see Level 14 Big Fall.
Link to video
Glitch Setup for Warp to Level 6 with Invincibility Mode 2.
Link to video
Level 14 Invincibility Route, skip to 0:55. (Manual Debug Input)
Link to video
Level 3 Invincibility Route, skip to 1:10.
Link to video
Level 4, Game Genie + Invincibility, skip to 0:30.
Link to video
Level 14, Real Invincibility, skip to 0:55.
Link to video
The video quoted above (japanese tas), posted back on page 3 of this thread, inspired me to see how fast I could beat the game, but I wanted to do it without a password. The idea of using a Level 20 password to skip to the end of the game is just inherently inappropriate for speedrunning. Technically, using Debug Menu to jump to level 20 is equally inappropriate. But that's what I wanted to do. Just for fun.
I used a quick warp 8 to unlock Debug Mode without using a password, and also jumped to Level 20 without using a Level 20 password. So in that regard, I consider this to be an improvement on the original idea. I setup the video with the standard speedrun "proof" at the beginning, showing that debug mode is not active on startup (no kill button), and no saved states (no alternate passwords stored, and no best times).
Time begins on first frame of level 1 (01:23.0547145) and ends on first frame of select menu after prince crosses the finish line (02:06.4332744). Official time is 43.3785599238 seconds, which equals 2607 console frames.
So this is how you beat the game in less than 44 seconds without using any saved states or passwords:
Beating Prince of Persia SNES in under 44 seconds.
Link to video
Official time: 43.3785599238 seconds = 2607 console frames.
oh man! This one was tough! I'm so proud. This is the latest update for Gate Thief #1, Level 19. I saved every possible animation frame, and finally executed every trick perfectly. The official frame count is 4,999 and 528 time units on the game clock. There were a few unfortunate lag frames that I can't really do anything about. This was a big improvement. Yesterday, I saved 41 frames over the old video (posted here, several pages ago), and saved another 7 frames today to get the absolute perfect video!
One notable improvement was made to the route, for human players. In the next-to-last room, I had been running to the wall, turning, and doing a manual delay to get the absolute perfect jump under the gate. But with this new route, I can simply jump to the wall, turn immediately, and run. With the right timing on the jump over the spikes, the Prince gets the absolute perfect timing under the gate. Doing a frame perfect jump is much easier than a frame perfect delay on turn-around.
This brings the "All 20 Levels" projection down to 83,240 frames = 23:05.052293, just 4 frames shy of breaking 23:05. I'm confident I'll save that many on my next video, which will probably be Level 14. Stay Tuned!
Gate Thief #1 -- Level 19 -- 1:14 -- 528 -- 4999.
Link to video
4999 console frames = 83.17967819682611 seconds.
I've updated some more levels!
Level 14, Regular and Invincibility; and Level 11. (edit: and level 6) (edit: and level 5) (edit: and level 4, lol.)
I'm a bit confused by the Level 11 Fire Pattern RNG. When I was recording this Level 11 video, I got the same Fire Pattern (seen in the video) many, many, many times, whenever I was confident that I had performed the level perfectly. However, whenever I do a full speedrun, I seem to always get something different, no matter what I do. Much more testing will be needed before I'm ready to grind the "All 20 Levels" full speedrun. But I'm thinking I probably just have to be prepared for anything, which means being ready to stop and wait.
For Level 14, both routes were slightly improved with better jumps in the long hallway. And this time, I used Real Invincibility Mode for the big fall, so you can really see how much time is saved (it's 128 frames, a little over 2 seconds better, compared to the regular route.)
Level 14 regular route saved 10 frames over the previous video, bringing the "all 20 levels" projection down to 83,230 console frames = 23:04.885900444456324.
Edit, next day: I did Level 6 today, and will add it here. 14 frames saved, brings projection down to 83,216 console frames = 23:04.65295075555555555¯.
Edit, next next day: Level 5 is done, with 36 frames saved. I did the same trick from Level 1, using the kill button to kill the guard while he is attacking, which delays his death, and somehow removes all lag from the next room. This is especially important in Level 5, because the room after the Patio must be traversed twice (coming back through after jumping into mirror). About 16 lag frames are saved in the first pass, and another 10-12 lag frames saved in the second pass. Besides this, I improved execution by 4-8 frames to get a better password. 368 time units on the game clock, official time is 3,196 console frames = 53.17908612 seconds. This 36 frame save again lowers the "all 20 levels" projection to 83,180 console frames = 23:04.053937 269841 269841¯. I've got 2 more levels to record: levels 2 & 4. I'll need to find a way to save 4 more frames in order to break the 23:04 mark.
Edit, next next next day: Got a new record on Level 4. Tightened up some jumps, and got the better password for 353 time units. Also, 3 animations faster, which is a 12 frame improvement. Unfortunately, I caught an extra lag frame somewhere, so only 11 frames improved over the previous video, now at 3,024 console frames, which is 50.3171328000 0000000000 0000000000 0000000000 seconds, exactly. This was enough to bring the "all 20 levels" projection below 23:04, now down to 83,169 console frames = 23:03.8709053714285714285.
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Gate Thief #1 - Level 11 - 0:56 - 394 time units.
Link to video
3309 console frames = 55.059322895 seconds.
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Gate Thief #1 - Level 14 - 0:57 - 404 time units.
Link to video
3537 console frames = 58.853074971429 seconds.
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Gate Thief #1 - Level 14 - Invincibility Route - 393 time units.
Link to video
3,409 console frames = 56.723249244444931 seconds.
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Gate Thief #1 - Level 6 - 0:45 - 315 time units.
Link to video
2,724 console frames = 45.32535375238095238 seconds.
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Gate Thief #1 - Level 5 - 0:52 - 368 time units.
Link to video
3,196 console frames = 53.17908612 seconds.
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Gate Thief #1 - Level 4 - 0:50 - 353 time units.
Link to video
3,025 console frames = 50.3171328 seconds.
It's a good thing I saved level 2 for last. (The last individual level for Gate Thief #1 sprite set that needs to be upgraded to 1080p60 HD video.)
This will be quite a project. I've devised a new route to minimize lag. The original video was 4040 console frames = 67.2226245 seconds. I've found that there's about 28 frames to be saved by improving execution, which should eventually bring the total down to 4012. In the meantime, I'm focusing on an alternate setup for the speedrun, since lag is such a big issue immediately after the glitch has been initialized.
In the "Best Setup" video, posted previously, there were 160 lag frames in the first three rooms, resulting from the glitch initialization.
In the new test video I made today, the alternate route costs 27 frames (this is 24 frames = 6 extra animations, for slower route, + 3 lag frames associated with extra falling panel). But besides this, the new total glitch lag in the first three rooms is reduced to 102 lag frames.
58 lag frames saved, minus 27 frames lost = net 31 frames saved in the first 3 rooms. It appears that this trick does not affect the extra lag observed in the room with the 2nd guard.
This should give me the following targets:
4011 frames -- original route, no lag.
4039 frames -- alternate route, no lag.
4159 frames -- alternate route, with lag.
(4190 frames -- theoretical best original route, with lag.)
My previous estimation of Level 2 (with lag) for the "all 20 levels" projection was 4,232; this new estimation could cut that by 74 frames, which would take an astonishing 1.23 seconds off the "all 20 levels" projection.
I will endeavor to make videos for all 3 of the top targets listed above. But it will be quite a grind. Especially difficult for the "Lag" video, since it can only be attempted after the full 2 minute setup has been performed each time.
Edit: WooHoo!!! I got the alternate route (no lag) video recorded. 4,039 frames!
Edit: I got the main route done today also. And it was 4,011 frames, 1 frame faster than projected. Not only that, but I recorded 4011 twice. So now I have to decide which video I'd rather upload. This is the craziest thing. The latest improvements to the route saved 6 animations = 24 frames. AND I saved 5 more frames, which could be better lag, or could be a 7th animation. Either way, this should by definition be an automatic 3 time unit improvement upon the game clock, because 2 animations = 1 time unit. However, despite saving 6 or 7 animations, (absolutely confirmed), the clock only improved by 2 time units. It's beyond explanation. At any rate, the new 472 password brings the displayed game clock time down to 1:06, which is worthy of celebration! I've just uploaded the better video, so I'll post the link below.
Edit: I got the lag video done as well. It came in at 4,159 frames! That's the Level 2 segment. The video also includes the setup immediately before Level 2. So this is the best I've seen for the Level 2 segment, and confirms approximate lag associated with glitch activation: +102 in the first two rooms, and +18 (17 glitch lag, and 1 random lag) in the room with the 2nd guard.
With this video completed, I can officially give a final projection for the Gate Thief #1 speedrun route for "All 20 Levels", including setup. I think I will list that in the next post.
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Gate Thief #1 -- Level 2 -- 1:06 -- 472 time units -- main route.
Link to video
4,011 console frames = 66.74008586666666666 seconds.
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Gate Thief #1 -- Level 2 -- 1:07 -- 475 time units -- alternate speedrun route.
Link to video
4,039 console frames = 67.2059852444444444444 seconds.
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Gate Thief #1 -- Level 2 -- 1:07 -- 475 time units -- alt route + real lag.
Link to video
4,159 console frames = 69.2026968 634920 634920... seconds.
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So, for a simple projection of a full speedrun of "All 20 Levels" with the Gate Thief #1 scrambled sprite set, I have two sets of times.
One is the actual time playing the levels, which is the first frame of a level until the first frame of Select Menu during "End of Level" music at the end of each level.
The other is the transition time from one level to the next. This would be counted from the first frame of Select Menu at the end of the previous level, until the first frame of the next level.
For the transition times, I am using the absolute fastest time. As far as I can tell, these cannot be improved under normal circumstances.
1) transitions with a scene of the Princess's Bedroom: 440 frames.
2) transitions without a scene: 346 frames.
Since I account for the "Setup" of glitches to acquire the Gate Thief #1 sprite set as taking all of the time from the first frame of the speedrun until the first frame of Level 2 WITH the Gate Thief sprite set, there is no transition time to count for levels 1 and 2. Therefore, there will be 18 transitions to cover: 7 transitions with Princess scenes, and 11 transitions without.
(7 x 440) + (11 x 346) = 3,080 + 3,806 = 6,886 frames. (114.5779684 seconds.)
The remainder of the time will come simply from counting up the wonderful time trial totals I've posted in the previous videos for each individual level. I'll add those up tonight, and provide an easy list to show how long the full speedrun should take with no mistakes.
Here's the time table for levels in the Gate Thief #1 "All 20 Levels" speedrun:
I'll add a double star (**) next to levels I think might have another small improvement that needs to be looked at.
Setup (Level 1 + Glitches) -- 5,132 console frames.
Level 2 (Alt. Route + Lag) -- 4,159 console frames.
Level 3 -- 5,506.
Level 4 -- 3,024.
Level 5 -- 3,196.
Level 6 -- 2,724.
Level 7 -- 3,026.
Level 8 -- 4,398.
Level 9 -- 3,037.
Level 10 - 4,801.
Level 11 - 3,309.
Level 12 - 1,857.
Level 13 - 5,902. **
Level 14 - 3,537.
Level 15 - 2,514.
Level 16 - 4,021.
Level 17 - 1,841.
Level 18 - 7,373.
Level 19 - 4,999.
Level 20 - 1,685.
Play Time: 76,041 console frames.
Transitions: 6,886 console frames.
Grand Total: 82,927 console frames = 22:59.8442036063492063492...,
I'm expecting to lose something like a half second on each level with imperfect play and slight hesitation on transitions. But if the setup and first couple of levels are very tight, I think there's a good chance I could manage to squeak under the 23:20 mark.
As far as the game clock goes, the best passwords seen in each of my videos call for a total of 8,075 time units elapsed by the beginning of Level 20. Since the number 8,075 is divisible by 425, this is EXACTLY 19 minutes on the game clock. So the Select Menu on Level 20 will show "101:00," although a few time units in either direction will still show this figure.
I would expect when I complete a very good speedrun, I will probably lose at least 30 time units. 8,105 would show "100:56" on the select menu during Level 20, for example.
There's still the trouble with Level 11. All these preceding figures assume getting one of the good Fire Patterns, and my experience with full speedruns so far is that I will probably not get a good one, and have to hesitate on that part of the level, losing something between 0.5 and 1 second, which may be another 7 time units lost.
Since Level 11 is one of the major bottlenecks to a full speedrun, I'm going to turn my attention back to that level for a while, and see which Fire Patterns may seem most likely encountered. After that, I may amend these figures slightly.
At any rate, this is all a very nice glance at the human limit. Once I start grinding it out, we'll see just how close one can get to perfection.
Edit: I just realized I forgot to upgrade Level 3 main route to 1080p60. I'll do that in the next couple days, and update the list above if the frame count is improved.
Edit: next day, I found major improvements to Level 17 (34 frames), and the Gate Thief Setup (Level 1, 52 frames). This brings the projection down to 83,008 frames, and the stats have been adjusted above, accordingly. I will need to reach 82,996 in order to break 23:01. It's hard to say whether there are enough improvements to find in levels 9 and 13. I think 8 frames saved may be the limit, but 12 may be possible. I'll post up videos for Setup (Level 1 segment) and Level 17 tomorrow. Then I'll work on re-recording Level 3 in 1080p60.
Edit: Level 3 recorded! 9 frames improved. stats updated. will post video in new post.
Edit: updated level 9, and corrected level 13 stats. I still need to test level 13 for additional savings. However, now that level 9 has produced over 1 second in savings, and brought the projection safely below the 23 minute mark, I am temporarily shifting my priorities to other things before I return to level 13.
Here's the improved Level 17. I saved 8 frames in the first half with better jumping patterns. And I saved 26 lag frames by killing the Monster as soon as possible, rather than allowing him to jump up into the air first. This recording is 34 frames better than the previous recording, and the 2 time units saved was enough to bring the game clock down to 209, which displays "0:29" on-screen.
I've also recorded the improvement to the Gate Thief #1 Setup (Level 1 segment). It is an improvement of 52 frames, by using the Sound Menu to play a shorter sound at the end of the stage, thus spawning the password box sooner. This trick should be legal, as it is in the same spirit as the tactic employed in the DOS version of the game, where speedrunners disable sound to skip the "end of level" music, and proceed to the next level quicker.
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Gate Thief #1 -- Level 17 -- 0:29 -- 209 time units.
Link to video
1,841 console frames = 30.63288408888888888 seconds.
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Gate Thief #1 -- Setup -- Level 1 Segment -- 34.643 seconds.
Link to video
2,082 console frames = 34.64294659047619 seconds.
I made a new video today for the Gate Thief #1 Setup + Warp to Level 8. It represents an improvement of 26.85 seconds over the previous Warp 8 Setup video.
From the beginning of Level 1 to the beginning of Level 8, the official Setup time is 6,832 console frames. Level 8 was performed in 4,667 console frames, from the beginning of Level 8, until the first frame of the Select Menu during the "End of Level" music at the end of level 8. The level transition was 437 frames. This gives a total of 11,936 console frames to reach Level 9 from the beginning of the run, which equals 198.606249 seconds (3 minutes, 18.606 seconds).
Level 8 was 269 frames slower than my best recording. I estimate this includes about 237 lag frames resulting from the Warp Glitch, and another 32 frames lost for conservative play.
I included a run through Levels 9 and 10 in this video also. So for this run, we have an official time of 20,542 console frames to beat the first half of the game, which is 5 minutes, 41.804 seconds.
From here, I can say 46 frames could be saved by using relevant segments from the Best Setup and Improved Level 1 Segment videos. I would also say another 16 frames can be easily saved with slightly less conservative play on Level 8, although it would be quite difficult, given the partial blind status. Assuming these, and combining time data from the remaining levels, I have a Warp 8 projection of 61,007 console frames, which puts us within striking distance of a sub-16:55, assuming I can manage to save a couple of animations when I re-record levels 3, 9, and 13.
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Gate Thief #1 -- Setup + Warp 8 -- 113.679 seconds.
Link to video
6,832 console frames = 113.67944817777 seconds. (Setup)
4,667 console frames = 77.65544271746 seconds. (Level 8)
Epic best Level 3 recorded! 9 frames improved (2 animations improved on end button u-turn = 8 frames; 1 lag frame better also).
3 lag frames saved by "Killing" Skeleton on first pass. This was already cooked into the previous recording.
5,506 frames = 91.6157847873015873 seconds.
"All 20 Levels" projection updated above. 82,999 = 23:01.0422305777777777.
Still got 1 animation (4 frames) to save on Level 9, and need to test Level 13 for possible savings in conveyor belt area at end. Levels 9 & 13 improvements will also apply towards Warp 8 projection.
This run of 649 time units is 1 time unit shy of lowering the displayed game clock time to 1:31. Unfortunately, it appears there is nothing left to save!
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Gate Thief #1 -- Level 3 -- 1:32 -- 649 time units.
Link to video
5,506 console frames = 91.6157847873015873 seconds.
WOW!! I have a giant update for Level 9!! I expected to save 4 frames when I redid it, but instead, I saved 73 frames!!!
I finally figured out the spacing to do a running jump across the first pit, after the conveyor belt. This saved massive amounts of time. I also saved time with a few more jumping optimizations throughout the level, and figured out an excellent way to save more time at the boss fight, by adjusting how I deployed the Select Menu.
The new total is 3,037 console frames, and this deals a heavy blow to both the "All 20 Levels" projection, and the "Warp 8" projection.
The "All 20 Levels" projection is reduced to 82,927 console frames = 22:59.8442036063492063492063492063. The 23 minute mark has finally fallen!!
The "Warp 8" projection is reduced to 60,951 console frames = 16:54.1797491047619047619047619048.
I got things down to 316 time units, and then found a way to save one last animation with a better jumping pattern in the moonlit hallway with guard. That last animation was able to drop the game clock down to 315. However, it is clear now that a 314 would be necessary to drop the displayed time to 0:44. And since I don't think there are another 2 animations to be saved, I think a 314 is unreachable with this sprite set. So it shall remain a displayed "0:45."
I'll update the stats in the previous posts later. It's time to celebrate!
edit: all stats updated.
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Gate Thief #1 -- Level 9 -- 0:45 -- 315 time units.
Link to video
3,037 console frames = 50.5334432253968253968253968 seconds.
I noticed something fun about SNES and old CRT TVs today.
The high frequency noise an old TV makes is related to the resolution and frame rate, and this numerical frequency translates into a real sound of the same frequency.
Usually, you will see information relating to the NTSC broadcast tv signals. It'll say the frame rate is 29.97, and there are 525 scan lines. So you just multiply them together, and you get 29.97 x 525 = ~15734 hz.
(actually, it's 29.9700 299700 299700 299700 299700... x 525 = 15734.26573426 573426 573426 573426...)
But today, I was looking at some audio from my Prince of Persia recordings, and noticed the sound on the spectrogram was lighting up around 15,746 hz. I wondered, how could that be?
Well, the math confirms that it should be different. Different frame rate, different scan lines. So these old TVs actually make different sounds, depending on what they're playing!
In the case of NES and SNES, the content is played at 39375000/655171 fps = ~60.09881389744 fps. And the signal is only half the number of scan lines.
525 NTSC scan lines is for "interlaced" video. That's 262 scan lines for frame A, and 262 scan lines for frame B, and 1 leftover line that's used to tell the TV whether frame A or frame B is next. Frame A uses only odd numbered lines, and Frame B uses only even numbered lines.
That's an average of 262.5 scan lines per frame, and an effective frame rate of 59.94 fps.
59.94 x 262.5 = ~15,734 hz.
So what about the SNES playing Prince of Persia?
Well, it's not an interlaced signal. It's progressive signal, at half resolution. So the extra line used for switching between A frames and B frames is skipped, leaving 262 scan lines per frame, and a frame rate of 60.09881389744 fps.
60.09881389744 x 262 = 15,745.88924112928 hz, exactly the frequency being displayed by my sound editor!!
I just finished editing together a compilation of the Gate Thief #1 "All 20 Levels" route. aka, Warpless.
I tracked the 346 and 440 frame times for each level transition as closely as possible, and the final product comes in at 4.358 console frames slower than the official projection. But still safely under the 23 minute mark.
official projection: 82,927 console frames = 22:59.8442036063492063492.
compilation video: 82,931.3579845 console frames = 22:59.91671725873903492063492063492.
Now that the full demonstration is available to view and study, I will continue to grind out an official speedrun, hopefully around 23:15 - 23:25.
edit: there's a small video error during level 16 that causes the video to freeze for 5 seconds, although the audio continues to play without a problem until the video catches back up. This was caused by youtube, as I used its auto-generated 720p60 videos to create this compilation (due to software limitations on my part). I didn't realize the 720p60 version of youtube's level 16 video had corruption in it until after I made the compilation video. All the original segment footage is of course available in 1080p60 in the videos I've already been posting in this thread. So this is a minor annoyance, but overall, it will suffice for the demonstration.
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Gate Thief #1 - Warpless, All 20 Levels - Full Route Compilation.
Link to video
"22:59.8442"
I've decided to also do a quick projection for the "sub 9 minute" route. I just recorded Levels 17, 18, 19, and 20 with the Fat Gate Thief. Next, I'll go back and record a better setup for Warp 4 + Warp 16, and see just how low we can take it. Now that we have good totals for the last 4 levels, it's fairly clear that this route can be done in less than 8:50.
Given the frame counts below, plus 2x346 plus 1x440 for transitions, the last four levels can be done in 4:42.235187. Simply adding the first half of my first World Record speedrun of 8:57.331736 thru the beginning of Level 17, we have 4:08.115 + 4:42.235 = 08:50.3502. That included a 1.5 second mistake on Level 5, and a grossly inferior Level 1 setup. So now, I'm feeling like I can get a "sum of best" down below 8:45. It'll be fun to see just how low it can go.
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Fat Gate Thief - Level 17 - 0:29 - 209 - 1,824.
Link to video
1,824 console frames = 30.3500166095238 seconds.
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Fat Gate Thief - Level 18 - 2:01 - 858 - 7,312.
Link to video
7,312 console frames = 121.666294653968253968 seconds.
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Fat Gate Thief - Level 19 - 1:15 - 530 - 5,008.
Link to video
5,008 console frames = 83.329431568254 seconds.
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Fat Gate Thief - Level 20 - 28.053798 - 1,686.
Link to video
1,686 console frames = 28.053798247619 seconds.
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I'll post some videos tomorrow. I got a great setup segment recorded today, and a good level 5a segment. between these, and the level 4 segment from the World Record video, and the 5b + 16 segment from the World Record video, I have a tentative projection to share. I don't think I'll be able to save much more time, as level 4 was pretty good in the old video.
Setup -- 6,066 console frames = 1:40.93377, (should be 6,048. I noticed a silly mistake, and will need to re-record this segment before I upload a video.)
Level 4 -- 3,962 console frames = 1:05.92476,
Level 5a -- 2,311 console frames = 0:38.45334,
Level 5b + 16 -- 2,182 console frames = 0:36.30687,
Levels 17-20 -- 16,962 console frames = 4:42.23519,
projected total -- 31,483 console frames = 8:43.85393252,
It's nice to see that it has gone below 8:45! Perhaps there is enough wiggle room where I could seriously attempt a sub-8:50 speedrun.
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A reminder on Challenger's test. You can see a link on Page 8 of this thread. May 17th, 2019, he posted a replay video of this route.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/55284868098526612
For comparison, using the speedrun timing standard, from the beginning of Level 1 until the beginning of Level 16 Checkpoint, roughly 3:36 elapsed. There were several examples of inaccurate play, since it was a quick test, so one might guess another 2-3 seconds might be removed from this for the TAS. We might project a time of 3:33 for TAS during this portion.
My "best segments" so far add up to about 3:40.5867 for the same portion of the run, about +7.5 seconds. The vast majority of this time is saved by the TAS's insane speed in navigating the select menu for fast exits.
I suspect my limit will be around 8:42.500, putting TAS around 8:35.000,
WooHoo! Got a great video recorded today.
I set a new record for the Warp 4 + Fat Gate Thief Setup + Warp 16. I also documented a best Level 16 Segment, and documented LAG for Levels 4, 16, and 17.
Level 4 lag is limited to 73 lag frames, and only in the first room, with best setup. For Level 17, lag appears to be limited to 2-3 frames, in the first room only.
This new setup clocks in at 6,043 console frames, from first frame level 1 thru first frame level 4. The TAS will be faster, because of insane fast select menu exit navigation, but as far as level navigation goes, I think this maps out the perfect route for the best warps with minimal lag.
This covers the Setup Segment + the Level 16 segment. Using the above Fat Gate Thief videos for Levels 17-20, and the old World Record video for the Level 4 and Level 5a & 5b segments, the current projection is down to 31,453 console frames = 8:43.3547546 for a human. As I said earlier, I think a TAS could push this down to 8:35, or 8:34, with faster select menu navigation.
Here is an updated accounting of the Sub-9 speedrun projection:
Setup' ---- 6,043 console frames.
Level 4 --- 3,962 console frames (to be improved).
Level 5a -- 2,311 console frames (20+ frames to be improved).
Level 5b -- 936 console frames (to be improved slightly).
Level 16 -- 893 console frames.
Level 17 -- 1,824 console frames.
Level 18 -- 7,312 console frames.
Level 19 -- 5,008 console frames.
Level 20 -- 1,686 console frames.
Levels 16-20 transitions -- 1,478 console frames.
Projected total without further improvements -- 31,453 = 8:43.3547546.
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Fat Gate Thief Sub-9 Route Setup - 1:40.55107 - 6043.
Link to video
6,043 console frames = 100.55107 seconds.
For Blind Level 4, I'll be recording the route under normal conditions, without lag or video corruption, to document exactly what the intended route may be. One thing I'll be focusing on is finding the absolute fastest way to get out of the first room of Level 4, to avoid extra lag, since there is no lag in the 2nd room. If I find a slightly better way to do this, I'll also record a warp-4 counterpart to document the improved lag in the first room.
So far, it appears I may be able to record something around 3419 + 346 transition. To this would be added known lag from the first room, to calculate the best possible time from start level 4 to start level 5. It would be something like 3419 + 346 + 73 = 3838 = 63.8614933 seconds.
This would be an improvement of 124 frames, and would bring the overall projection down to 31,329 = 8:41.291485943.
It's hard to say how much savings can be done in 5a and 5b, but it seems doubtful I can save enough to break 8:40. Assuming another 30 frames saved, that'll only get me down to 31,299 = 8:40.7923. At that point, we might project that TAS could get down towards 8:33.300.
I've saved another half second on Blind Level 4 by reducing lag. The key is to get out of the first room as soon as possible, even if it would mean a slower overall route under normal conditions. By using a standing jump to get under the gate as soon as possible, and immediately get into the 2nd room, critical lag time is saved. The traditional method of speedrunning the beginning of Level 4 is to do a u-turn for optimal running/jump speed under the gate. But here, where lag is a major consideration, some time can be lost with less optimal performance, to seriously reduce lag.
I will see if I can splice a video together showing the method used. It's only 4 frames slower (1 animation), but saves about 36-37 lag frames. So that's a full half second improvement that I wasn't expecting!
Edit: Here's the spliced video. This net 33 frame improvement may be the key to breaking 8:40!
MAJOR EDIT -- This video has already been made obsolete, as I just found another improvement. It is actually 8 frames faster to run directly into the gate on the 2nd run, rather than doing a 1-step run without gate collision. This improvement of 8 frames might translate in another 1-2 frames of LAG being avoided as well. I will have to confirm this.
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Sub-9 Route - Blind Level 4 - Improved LAG in 1st Room.
Link to video
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Here's a pretty good full level 4 recording, for the Sub-9 Route. I managed to do everything perfectly up until the end. I accidentally waited too long for the last gate, and wasted some time there, and also a bad End Door climb. I should be able to save another 24-28 frames will perfect play, and favorable lag.
This is 3,439 + 346 + 32 = 3817.
projection update: 31,308 = 8:40.94206.
Now we're just 57 frames away from a sub-8:40. Assuming I can get everything I'm trying to do on Level 4, that just leaves 30 frames to be shaved off for levels 5a & 5b.
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Sub-9 Route -- Level 4 -- 3,439 console frames
Link to video
399 time units.
woohoo! got an almost perfect run for the new Level 4 route.
3,416 console frames from first frame level 4 to first frame select menu at end.
3,416 + 346 level transition + 32 lag frames projected for the first room after doing the Warp to Level 4 = 3,794 = 63.1293656888... seconds from Start Level 4 to Start Level 5 real time, during the Sub-9 full speedrun route.
I picked up an extra animation or two during the U-turn under the Crusher. I may try to record this one more time, and see if I can nail the earlier jump, and save 4-8 frames. Everything else was perfect.
For now, this improves the Sub-9 Route Projection to 31,285 console frames = 8:40.5593583492. Only 34 frames away from a sub-8-40!
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Sub-9 Route - Clean Level 4 - 0:56 - 396 - 3,416.
Link to video
Late tonight, I finally got a best run for level 5a during speedrun with video corruption, so this will be official for the projection.
It was completed in 2,247 console frames, from first frame 5a to first frame 5b after intro reset. This is an improvement of 19 frames, and brings the projection down to 31,226 console frames = 8:39.5776418.
Earlier today, I thought I had finally got a great recording of Blind Level 4, but I discovered a funny issue that causes extra lag. Now that it has been solved, I'm glad to report that an official Blind Level 4 video should be recorded very soon to confirm the projection.
It's late, so I will post the video for Blind Level 5a tomorrow.
So, here's what I figured out about Blind Level 4 and the lag problem.
At the beginning of the setup in Level 1, your first segment is to "visit" the first guard, then exit the level. If you access the select menu in the hallway, and exit the level on the last frame before the screen transition, the game will load the room with the guard for 1 frame after the exit, and you will "see" the guard. This method causes 22 extra lag frames at the beginning of Level 4.
In order to remove these 22 lag frames, you must do something else that ruins the Warp-16 pattern. Therefore, these extra 22 lag frames are mandatory for the route. Very disappointing!
(The solution for the 22 lag frames would be to go all the way into the room with the guard before exiting. This makes level 4 faster, but ruins level 16, with huge massive lag, and continuous flashing "time remaining" box.)
Therefore, I must alter my projection accordingly, to include these extra 22 lag frames. At the moment, this increases the Level 4 projection up to 3,816 console frames.
After the new 5a recording improved the projection to 31,226, this discovery must increase the projection to 31,248 = 8:39.9437056.
Fortunately, it's still below the 8:40 mark, but just barely. I have been improving my execution of the menus during the setup, and am looking for a time around 6,032. This 11 frame improvement in the setup would bring the overall projection down to 31,237 = 8:39.7606737,
Nice discovery! I wouldn't expect about that lag issue reason, since this game isn't easy to detect lag - there are points I didn't test even further on the published run.
My homepage
--Currently not much motived for TASing as before...--
But I'm still working.
