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Summary

  • "Pacifist" Main Objective
  • Lowest "Touch" and "Hits" arbitrary Sub-Objective
  • Abuses Programming Errors
  • Uses Game Reset Sequence
  • Emulator used: BizHawk (2.5.1 interim)
  • RealTime:15:05.15 GameTime:13:56(last input) Frames:54309 Re-records:57250


Introduction

This run feats finishing the game without killing any monsters, or trick the game into thinking that.
It use the save bug with maria in order to unlock relics for alucard, as a bonus you also obtain 200 mana, making the run smooth.
The sub-objective to make the lowest "touch" and "hits" (see explanation below) does reduce overall speed, but makes the interaction with monsters as low as possible.


Explanation

Hits and Touchs

  • Touch are interactions with monsters hitbox, without damaging them, one way to tell is that the monster name will appear on the bottom right of the screen when you "touch" it.
  • Hits are attacks interactions with monsters, it will in 99% cases result in damage on the monster, sometime monsters are invulnerable on some parts (stone plant), or like golden skulls just immune to any damage on the whole hitbox.
In this run, to achieve the lowest touch and hits possible, im using the mist, or just avoid the monsters, overall the run would be slightly faster (seconds) without that restriction.
You may consider hitting the vase, pushing the switch in entrance/keep, or all the candles broken as interaction too, but im defining them (arbitraly) as element of the scenery and this run aim rather at no interaction with monsters.
The only touch is with the darkwing bat boss, the 2 hits are made on dracula (9999dmg luck underflow bug, requires 2 duplicator, so its an extra 500k$ to get that you could save from no such restriction).

Character choice

I've tested the pacifist idea with all characters, maria been the only suitable one to accomplish true pacifist.
  • Richter will not work simply because he only have 10 MP, the sword brother spell requires 30 MP and let you get a million $ very fast, the alternative is to collect for hours the 25$ bags until you have duplicator.
  • Alucard scenario is a lot more interresting, because it allow for "live" swap of characters to gather the relics, such a run will be display here later, unfortunatly, its not possible to complete it without killing at least one boss, it is by definition inferior because of that.

SRAM Usage

It is necessary to use "replay" mode to get the duplicator, as its required to skip shaft at the end (with many heart refresh), you must use dirty sram.
The verif movie is placed inside the bk2 directly, its called CV-NitM-unlock-replay.bk2 (advance to frame 47407 to generate the sram)

Flaws, Glitches'n'Routes

  • Karasuman skip is very easy, you only have to morph into wolf on the first frame of input after the loading, note that darkwingbat gate doesnt start before you move into the room, and I couldnt find any way to glitch myself out aside whats presented here (half blood).
  • You cannot see it but the damage (from one of the shuriken hits) on dracula is 9999 and its the maximum, to obtain this you need to have a negative luck value, in this run alucard got 10, equiping a duplicator means -10, so you need 2 duplicators to make this work, dracula got 10000hp so the second hit kills him regardless whats the dmg from it.
  • Ive tested to go by medusa, she does hit for 100 under poison with the sword (attack, not touch), but good luck getting half blood with it, looked impossible to me, all her others attacks arent strong enought.
  • Im buying 2 flame shurikens, but only use one (ooops), so you can reduce shop time by a whopping 12 frames, also buying leather shield instead iron saves some 7000$.
  • The wolf in reverse castle is purely to show off, its probably slower than just go directly with bat, note that the spike dont hurt the wolf somehow (!?!).
  • Ive found that there is a good ratio of bat and wolf in the movie overall and im happy with that, despite not been the fastest.
  • The bat squeeze at the end is also slower as it wasnt aligned correctly, but the squeeze in outerwall was definitly faster than crossing the door, it is again a case of me trying to show off bugs rather than going stricly for speed.
  • The bestiary showing dracula from prologue is something that unlock in any case scenario, even if you dont do the prologue.
  • Choosing the other save point in entrance isnt totally arbitrary; it mean you dont have to deal with the skeleton "guarding" the upside savepoint
  • Joseph cloak / pink color cape are another "artistic" choice of mine, they arent required.
  • The name input ARUKADO and PACIFIST are not necessary of course.
  • Having 69HP by the end of the run is totally accidental, you take 1dmg from poison and 130 from the boss, 131 total dmg on 200hp.
  • The rerecord count is inacurate, im reusing the any% to make the sram, it is actually ~ 15k.

PSX vs Saturn

The psx pacifist run does use "revenge" tech to trick the game into thinking you didnt defeat a monster, and of course cannot obtain all relics like in this run, and feature different routing.
I dont think cross obsoletion should happen, simply because the run paramaters are far too different, instead I think if a psx run can manage to lower the number of (revenge)kills then it should be obsolete with that.
I may attempt that later but no promise on wether its possible or not, I just dont know.

feos: Judging...

DrD2k9: Claiming for judging.
DrD2k9: (Much of this is duplicated from #6904: arukAdo's Saturn Castlevania: Symphony of the Night "pacifist, minimal touches/hits" in 15:06.92 judgement). This was an interesting situation to look into. After discussion with some other staff and a a good amount of discussion with the author arukAdo, I've got a lot to say about this game and the run/submission.
First lets disucss the game itself in regards to current site policy:
  • In the past (before my time on staff so I don't know exact details), the site had allowed runs of a game on one system to obsolete or prevent runs from another system from being accepted. Currently, we lean more toward accepting multiple systems for the same game, especially if there are differences in how the game plays across the systems. So cross-system obsoletion/comparison shouldn't be a concern for SOTN.
  • The Saturn version of SOTN gives the player a starting choice from three charaters with which to play the game: Richter, Alucard, and Maria. These characters have different abilities/limitations and thus require playing through the game differently. As such, there is potential value in a publication for each character in order to both archive and showcase (from a TASing standpoint) the differences in how the characters beat the game as quickly as possible. Based on the current rules, it's likely only one of these characters would get a Standard class publication with the others going to Alternate class; but there is also some discussion on whether this policy should be changed in a way that would allow a run from each of the characters in Standard class. Regardless of class distinction, a run from each character is likely acceptable.
  • Exclusively for the Saturn version of the game, there is a save-game glitch where the memory of items collected isn't reset when restarting the game with a different character. This effectively allows the game to be started with one character and get to a save point to create the "dirty" SRAM, then restart the game with a new character who will have all the items/stats collected by the previous character due the the game not resetting the RAM values upon stariting the new character. This opens the door for different approaches to gameplay among the various characters and creates some SRAM backed categories of play.
    • Richter normally starts with all the relics, but his relic stuff doesn't use much mana, so he starts with much less initial mana points than Maria. So using him as the initial character is going to be a less optimal use of the save glitch for Alucard to then start his scenario as he would be limited by a lower mana level.
    • Maria also normally starts with all the relics and high mana points, thus using her as the initial character is going to be most optimal use of the save glitch as it will allow for Alucard to then start his scenario with all relics and a good supply of mana.
      • One could do a Richter run instead of Alucard after starting with Maria, but since Richter already has all the relics and doesn't need the mana boost, it's not worthwhile over a baseline Richter run.
    • Using Alucard as the initial character before the reset will still transfer things from the first save, but the subsequent chosen character would then still have to go collect items through the game; so this would also be a sub-optimal use of a save-glitch based any% run. The technique might be potentially be usable for a faster all-relics collection run, though.
Given all the above, to my understanding, there are at least 7 valid goals/branches for SOTN on the Saturn console:
  • 1) baseline "Richter scenario"
  • 2) baseline "Alucard scenario"
  • 3) baseline "Maria scenario"
  • 4) "save-glitch, Alucard scenario"
    • This could be done either from power-on by including the first character (Maria) setup in the main movie file, or as starting directly with Alucard from an SRAM backed movie file that was created with Maria as the first character. While this would likely be slower than the baseline "Maria scenario" it would likely be faster than the baseline "Alucard scenario" and offer a good contrast to that later run. This would be an Alternative class goal.
  • 5) "pacifist"
    • The most pacifist way to play this game is to use the save-glitch to provide Alucard with all the relics from Maria, which then allows for minimizing hits/damage to enemies compared to any other branch of the game. This would be a save-glitch based run and could again either contain the Maria setup in the main movie file or using an SRAM backed start. This would be an Alternative class goal.
  • 6) "all relics"
    • A run that actively collects all the relics in the game as fast as possible starting with none. It's not known wheter this would be faster starting from a baseline Richter/Alucard character, or starting with a save-glitch that doesn't begin with all relics yet allows for character swapping which may potentially allow for retreiving the relics faster.
    • It should be obvious that starting a game with Maria to simply have all the relics at the onset isn't valid for this category.
  • 7) "best ending"
    • To achieve the best ending in this game requires visiting a certain percentage of the map. It's expected that using a save-glitch to start Alucard with all relics would be the fastest way to do this, but not 100% sure.
So after all that discussion on the game itself, now lets consider this particular submission:
  • Overall, it's a generally good run and would fit branch wise as run #6 above.
  • There are some potential improvements possible, some noted in the submission notes. These may not be huge improvements, but after discussing with arukAdo, they may be able to bring the time below 15 minutes.
  • arukAdo is willing (and has actually already begun) to implement these potential changes as well as using a newer emulator version that may have more accurate emulation; he mentioned that there may be more lag which might impact the time, but I noted to him that we'd prefer a run with the more accurate emulation anyway.
  • A general submission note (already privately discussed with arukAdo): In the future please utilize userfiles for SRAM verification runs and associated files like Lua, then sinmply link to them in your submission notes instead of cramming them all into the submitted .bk2 file. We prefer to have the .bk2 (or other format) movie files of a submission to just be the submitted movie itself.
So all that said: While this submission is probably otherwise acceptable, I'm rejecting for a couple reasons:
  • In anticipation of a better run in the near future, that is already in the works. This will minimize work for the publishing team.
  • To have a new submission (instead of a modified 4 year old one from before the site revamp)
    • with up-to-date details
    • with only the movie file in the submitted .bk2
    • with links to userfiles for verification/Lua stuff instead
Looking forward to the new run!


TASVideoAgent
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BigBoct
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Around the 6-minute mark. How hard would it be to avoid destroying any candles or vases, aside from the ones directly required for the route? Pacifist TASes hitting stuff like that for seemingly no reason has always rubbed me the wrong way. I complained about it in the recent Contra pacifist submission too.
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Like ive explained on the sub, Im considering those elements (vase/candles/switchs) as scenery and not related to monsters/ennemies, the run aim at lowest interaction with monsters, it is already a very big restriction that the psx run doesnt do, the difference been speed, there is multiple occassion where you could just bounce on monsters to go faster. Yet your question is very valid and just to be clear, it took me a while to figure how to handle this. It is totally possible to do a run where you interact with nothing, technically even if you dont destroy a candle you still "touch" it, so you could just fly with mist for 20+ minutes and touch nothing, theres nothing superplay or tas-worthy in this idea, anybody can do it. So to answer your question, it wouldnt be hard to avoid breaking candles, but for speed strategy its going to mean to walk instead of using wingsmash, also for exemple in the second castle you will have to fly with mist for many entire rooms, because you dont want to touch or hit a monster, and without the wingsmash, it mean slow mist flying around. It is most the time a case where you have to aim precisly the wingsmash to get where you want, so avoid candles is out of question, im only bouncing on a few candles but there again, it will only be slower to avoid it or heavly cripple your capacity to speed. I believe excesive mist usage or walking wont be publishable material. If people absolutly want to see the difference, I mean I can always try to make something but, im not sure its worth the efforts. Edit: just to make sure, but around the 6min mark im hitting nothing (?), its mostly later in the run, some candles look like chandeliers, the only "vase" (not a candle) im hitting is the one with the garnet gem in outerwall. (Originally it was "3 hits" but due to how im excluding scenery from the run goals, well its only 2 hit on dracula)
BigBoct
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I still feel like it's a bit of a "spirit of the rules" thing, but I'll concede to your points. Yes vote.
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EZGames69
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Candles are not enemies, and neither are the item drops you get in Contra. That would fit under the "minimalist" category like [3865] NES Castlevania "pacifist, minimalist" by Challenger & Grincevent in 12:25.29.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
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JD
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Now that this TAS has been uncanceled and is being judged again, I have to wonder why the branch is called "Pacifist - 1 Touch / 2 Hits" instead of "Pacifist - Maria Scenario".
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Nowaday I think the branch would be labeled with "save glitch" (not to confuse with save corruption) but it still is pretty ambiguous even if you use that term. Scenario feels a bit off for the simple reason that the run is actually played by alucard, despite starting with maria. (maria would not be able to pass trough bosses without killing them anyway) I say it feels "off" also because the game engine is not bound by its characters, its not a copy/paste of alucard game that would be "re-arrange" to fit the gameplay better, instead it would be more accurate to say that the character flag is a "preset". All characters adventure into the same castles, rooms, inventory, items and bosses, or base code. Cutscenes only trigger when alucard is active (if alucard then...), items (relics) are always present but maria or richter starts with all of them while alucard starts with zero, drops are also alucard "exclusive" but hearts, money or subweapon are shared, for bosses they have another system "time attack" and while alucard start with none, to avoid maria/richter doing bosses exclusive to alucard, they start with the 4 events at 00:00:01(meet death, meet maria, save richter, colosseum boss), bosses rooms triggers only when sayd events are not registred yet, there is a couple more flags(safety?) for cutscenes (thats how richter does not trigger maria dialogue at the castle center in the other movie, despite hes inside the cutscene room). In order to avoid confusing things further I did prefer to leave those subs un-edited, and wait see how its judge, tbh I still dont know how they should be labeled but the most logic is probably "save glitch". The glitch itself is fairly simple, after loading a save file, soft reset does not reset any of the player variable, so selecting a new character does not overwrite what was set previously (relics, bosses, whatever progression). The big difference between this one and "alucard scenario" is that you start with all relics, but also with different stats (200hp/100mp). Now wether one run has more merit than another, thats debatable, since they use different "preset" I suppose they arent directly comparable, note that richter is not fit since he doesnt have enough mp (so a 3rd run would likely not be possible, even with all relics you would not be able to use abilities). Provided the action is always with alucard, I think "scenario" is not really adequate, having all relics of course make it a lot faster but its debatable wether or not its a "cheat" and the psx run start with no relic, so in terms of obsoletion this run is probably not fit, despite it does achieve lower kill count. Since it didnt had much merit by itself aside the speed factor, making sure its not "unlocking" or "touching" things was the only real difference in pacifist "terms", thats why I did label it like this. Edit: maybe this would be more fit as "minimalist", the speed lost wouldnt be very high but it might make more sence overall. I wouldnt mind to rework it toward that goal, but in that case I would appreciate the judge rejecting it in favor of this option. Just to be clear, the other movie would suffer more for trying to minimalize interaction than this one (taking damage ect...), since it doesnt have mist for a large portion of the run it wouldnt be as minimalist as this one.
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