In BurgerTime, you are a chef who must walk over giant hamburger toppings to send them to lower floors, eventually forming complete burgers... but watch out 'cause the kitchen is pissed! Hot dogs, eggs, and pickles will chase you around the stage to foil your plans of being a fast food wizard.
Luckily, these baddies can be crushed by dropping toppings on them as they pass underneath. If they are standing on the same topping you send down, the toppings will descend two floors which is much faster. You can also stun enemies for a short time with a pinch of pepper.
Objectives
  • Plays on hardest difficulty
  • Genre: Action/Platformer
Difficulty The hardest difficulty is simply the fastest game speed, which was selected here.
Giving the Baddies a Ride
This is what the instructions manual calls it when an enemy is on the same topping you drop--the topping and the enemy will drop two floors together. This is obviously much quicker for most situations, but if enemies are too far away or it is a special case, we opt for a one floor drop. Note that giving multiple enemies a ride at once does not increase the number of floors dropped--the maximum is still two. Previously not thought possible until this TAS was being able to give baddies a ride when they come up or down a ladder right into the middle of the topping. We can do a little wiggle to move out of the enemy's way and delay walking over the last section of topping just enough to drop it right as the enemy steps on.
Pepper
Pepper is extremely useful in this TAS for taking shortcuts through or freezing enemies on toppings we wouldn't be able to give rides for as readily. You start with four pinches of pepper, but there are items that give you more... often in out-of-the-way spots. I never walked more than two extra units to grab these, so the timesave was well worth. Seven peppers were used in this run.
AI Manipulation
All enemies track your position in the same way but with one important distinction: When the chef and an enemy's Y positions are equal (regardless of X distance), hot dogs always move down ladders while eggs and pickles always move up ladders, provided they encounter one. If you ever see me take a random tangent for seemingly no reason, this is to manipulate some enemy's path to get a better pattern later on.
Luck Manipulation
When getting crushed, enemies can respawn from one of five locations on each map, determined randomly. When taking a ride, enemies don't respawn at the map margins. Instead they resurrect at the point they were dropped to and will initially start walking left or right, determined randomly. Respawn location and walking direction is dependent on when they were crushed or given a ride. In several places, I wait longer than necessary to do these actions in order to get a more favorable outcome later on in the stage.
The frame the stage begins affects the timing of when the first enemies walk from the level margins. Delaying the end of a previous stage can therefore be faster in the long run.
Level 1 There are two key AI manipulations:
  • I delay moving at the very start to lure the top-right hot dog down initially. He ends up getting a ride from the middle burger.
  • When the first crushed hot dog respawns, I lure him up. This simply puts him out of our way so we can complete the rest of the level smoothly.
Level 2 Various manipulations were calculated such that towards the end of the level, every enemy was used to send toppings down two floors.
Level 3 The fastest route I found was to drop the left two burger toppings to the bottom floor on the first pass. From there, everything just seemed to fall together. A slight delay at the end of the level gave better RNG in Level 4...
Level 4 Ending the previous level late allowed the bottom-right hot dog to spawn later, meaning I could lure him upwards at the beginning. This let me use one less round of pepper in this very straightforward level.
Level 5 There are two key AI manipulations:
  • When I first get to the right side of the screen, there is an obvious tangent to lure a pickle downwards. This moves him out of the way and gets crushed with a convenient respawn. We then immediately give him a ride.
  • Right before said pickle is given a ride, I walk up a ladder to lure a faraway hot dog up. This manipulates him to eventually take a ride on the penultimate burger.
Level 6 Pretty robust routing here. Three peppers were used in this level and each helped give a ride to enemies that would've otherwise been impossible.
Level 7 I found this route for my RTA runs over a year ago and it looks like it holds up for being the best TAS route too! Due to the disjointed nature of the level, finding a better route will be very difficult.
Suggested Screenshot Frame 12979
Suggested Publication Notes
Insert first two paragraphs in these submission notes here
Winslinator completes one loop of the game's seven stages in record time.

Memory: I think I can stomach one more loop of this game (having judged the NES version) to judge.
Memory: Optimization looks fine.
There were some major concerns with this submission not beating the game. This TAS beats one stage layout loop, however, the difficulty appears to have a fixed increase point (up to 7 loops). According to the rules, difficulty doesn't count as content only if it rises indefinitely. Most people seemed to agree with this restriction as well! I was fully expecting a discussion about whether or not this should be the case but most people seemed to agree it should. As such this movie's next end point would either be after the last difficulty increase or a killscreen if one were to exist. So far the author was unable to beat one of the levels in loop 7 but this may not be a proper killscreen. If it is truly unbeatable, it is a kill screen.
Rejecting.

Samsara: Unrejecting and re-judging in light of a rule change regarding difficulty in looping games.
Samsara: Optimization and routing look solid. The differences in looping appear to be difficulty only (changes in enemy speed and behavior, no new content), thus now making this submission eligible for publication. Given the mixed feedback after un-rejection (and relative lack of feedback prior to the original rejection), I am accepting this to Vault.
To clarify the new rule a bit further: Maxing out difficulty is now just a preference as opposed to a requirement. A movie that completes all 7 loops (or reaches the possible killscreen in the 7th loop and confirms that it is in fact a killscreen) would obsolete this run assuming it is up to the same standards of optimization, but we are no longer rejecting runs like this for being "incomplete". This rule change only applies to looping/infinite games, games without defined endings in general. The rules for difficulty have not changed. If you have any further questions about the rules, ask a Judge in this incredibly handy and well-named thread.
Man, this feels overly formal for a Samsara judgement. This was interesting! Excellent work! How about a joke about butts? Okay, there, I think that knocked out a row on the bingo board. I feel comfortable now.
Zinfidel: Processing...


TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #6818: Winslinator's INTV BurgerTime in 05:03.29
RetroEdit
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What's with the pause around 2:02 in the video before ending Level 3? Also, wouldn't it save time to lure multiple enemies on one burger to drop the burgers down farther, or does the time for the enemies to move into place outweigh the potentially faster drops?
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This appears to be a really good effort. I think RetroEdit brings up a good point; however, the "baddies" are too spread apart to be able to make use of pounding the burger parts down further. On some levels, you are already walking the direction that will do so anyway, so it doesn't look to be an oversight. Waiting for them or grouping the up for a full stack to be pushed down, could take a lot more time than necessary. I also see that you manipulate the AI correctly. My favorite version to play, growing up, was on the Colecovision. I see the same similar techniques used to do so. Although I think I remember that the speed wasn't the only thing affect...I believe the way the AI responded was different. As for using the hardest level, I plan on looking at the code to see if the level increases afterward. Hopefully I can do that soon. In the mean-time...Great job.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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[quote RetroEdit] What's with the pause around 2:02 in the video before ending Level 3? Also, wouldn't it save time to lure multiple enemies on one burger to drop the burgers down farther, or does the time for the enemies to move into place outweigh the potentially faster drops?[/quote] For your first question, it was to manipulate an enemy on Level 4 to spawn later which allows me to use one less pepper. As for your second question, can toppings move down more floors with more baddies in other versions? In this version, two floors is the maximum so I'll update the notes to address that. [quote nymx]I also see that you manipulate the AI correctly. My favorite version to play, growing up, was on the Colecovision. I see the same similar techniques used to do so. Although I think I remember that the speed wasn't the only thing affect...I believe the way the AI responded was different. As for using the hardest level, I plan on looking at the code to see if the level increases afterward. Hopefully I can do that soon.[/quote] As is the case with most of the arcade-style Intellivision games, selecting "disc" speed is the fastest with the three slower speeds inserting lag every few frames, and no other bearing on the game's difficulty. After each loop of the game, the speed of enemies increases and their AI slowly starts to be less predictable. With each loop, it seems that each change in direction enemies make has a higher likelihood of being a random one, and it appears no changes in enemy behavior occur beyond loop 7. I understand that the TAS would've been more complete had I beaten the first 7 loops (49 stages) but I haven't been able to complete any stage in that loop, considering enemies move more than twice the speed of the player. Therefore, I figured this would be complete enough for now but feel free to prove me wrong. You can play on the hardest loop by poking Main RAM address 71 to a value of 6 and you will start on Level 43. Similarly, poke address 6F to a value of 0-6 for the stage within the loop. Side question, how would I be able to view the code for an Intellivision game like this?
nymx
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Winslinator wrote:
You can play on the hardest loop by poking Main RAM address 71 to a value of 6 and you will start on Level 43. Similarly, poke address 6F to a value of 0-6 for the stage within the loop.
This gives me a head start, since I haven't even looked yet.
Winslinator wrote:
Side question, how would I be able to view the code for an Intellivision game like this?
Bizhawk has debugging tools to let you see the machine language that is being executed...which will be displayed as assembly. By already knowing some addresses you can discover what caused a change to that location. If it does...then it will be easy to figure out.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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So I wanted to quote the exact clause in the rules where it's acceptable to do one loop if difficulty increases but content otherwise remains the same and found it was a bit more badly worded than I remembered:
Movie Rules wrote:
The game consists of multiple rounds with new content appearing, and difficulty increases until it resets (overflows). For this the game must reach a point where no new content is left to complete.
I got initially confused by this, thinking it meant the opposite. However, I got confirmation that it was supposed to mean that if no new content (ie levels) appears beyond a certain point, but difficulty continues to increase, it is acceptable to stop when the new content stops appearing. I also recall hearing that generally a run that stops when difficulty stops increasing would be able to obsolete 1 content loop run, but I'm not exactly seeing that clearly defined in the section. That section of the rules probably should be rewritten to be more clear. EDIT: Looks the explanation I was given wasn't even entirely accurate. This needs some looking into. EDIT2: It seems the current rule is that it is acceptable to stop when no new content IF there is an undefined difficulty increase. It sounds to me that you're not allowed to stop there if there is a defined difficulty cap. I'm not sure I like this.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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The rules on looping games are hard to get a solid definition for, but what we have seems reasonable enough (if a bit confusingly worded) as a general guideline that can be refined by a judge on a game-by-game basis. In this particular case, I don't think just the first loop is enough.
Winslinator wrote:
I understand that the TAS would've been more complete had I beaten the first 7 loops (49 stages) but I haven't been able to complete any stage in that loop, considering enemies move more than twice the speed of the player. Therefore, I figured this would be complete enough for now but feel free to prove me wrong.
When you say that, do you mean RTA or under TAS conditions? If it's impossible in even TAS conditions, that sounds like a form of a killscreen to me, and we've already established that a killscreen is the logical endpoint of a (seemingly) infinitely looping game. If they ARE possible when TASed, then it's going to look extra impressive due to the high enemy speed, and since the last stage of loop 7 appears to be the defined difficulty cap, it still makes this general section the most logical endpoint for a TAS of this version.
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I remember in the movie rules that one of the acceptable places to stop a looping run is where it's impossible to complete the current level, which it seems is the case with what Winslinator is saying.
Movie Rules wrote:
Games that loop endlessly without some kind of ending can still have a defined ending point, which can be...The game reach[ing] a point where it becomes impossible to complete the current round.
Oh, but this is a single loop. That sentence Memory quotes is actually difficult. The thing mentions difficulty increasing, and difficulty increases between loops, right? It did go through every unique level layout, though.
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I’m looking at judicial precedent for what “new content” means in the context of second-generation console games in need of an end point. I consistently see three aspects used to define "new content" in previous judgments: 1. Levels are new content. Landmark case: #6323: Spikestuff's A2600 Tapper in 06:05.47 2. Increasing difficulty is new content. Landmark case: #5952: Noxxa's Coleco Dragonfire in 01:40.60 3. RNG changes to enemies/obstacles, on their own, are not new content if they don't increase difficulty. Landmark case: #6588: Lobsterzelda's A2600 Bobby is Going Home in 03:26.03 The single dot symbol on the right side of the screen indicates that the game starts on the fastest speed, but the author says that there are 7 loops of increasing difficulty. If I understand right, the author also says that the 7th loop is unbeatable. In that case, the game should be played until it reaches the point of being impossible to continue. Whether the last loop is possible or impossible, I don't think a single loop qualifies as a complete movie, since increasing difficulty is new content.
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I see the points being made about the movie being incomplete and they are fair. Thing is, I only had a desire to do the first loop as that is where the RTA speedrun ends and I really don't have much motivation to go any further. That being said, if anybody wants to pick this up where I left off I encourage them to do so, just add me as a coauthor in the end. Also I should make it clear that I haven't exhaustively attempted to TAS the 7th loop so I can't say it's definitively impossible. If someone were able to crack the enemy RNG on that loop it may be possible.
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Increasing difficulty does not inherently mean new gameplay content in all cases. But those two are so closely related that we work with both. If the game is hard-coded to have an explicit, programmer-defined difficulty cap, we want that highest difficulty, and all unique content, to be reached and completed. If there's no programmer-defined difficulty cap, and it just keeps increasing until the number in memory overflows, we only require that all unique content has been completed. If a run reaches the point when the player can't proceed anymore, it's considered a kill screen and it's also a valid ending for such games.
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om, nom, nom... juicy!
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We just pushed a rule change that no longer requires difficulty to be exhausted in looping/infinite games. This submission is now within the bounds of our rules, officially making it BurgerTime time once again. Given the rule change, the borderling votes, and the amount of (burger)time since the original rejection, I'd like another round of feedback on it. I'll be providing my own shortly.
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I use to not enjoy games like this, because they look and sound primitive, and gameplay is slow and unexciting. Voted No.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I honestly completely forget what I voted but iirc I felt that there was some creativity in the strategies that were satisfying to see but at the same time the game could be a tad repetitive.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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While I get what you're going for, I must say the "games without clear ending" rule is rather confusingly written as it stands now. If I understand correctly, the third point (all unique content + hardest difficulty) is intended as a strict subset of the second (all unique content, regardless of difficulty), but this isn't really clear from the wording. Imho. Anyway, meh vote on entertainment. It's funny but not very long.
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They all represent available options. If difficulty is increasing but you don't aim for maxing it out, you pick option 2.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Post subject: Movie published
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [4378] INTV BurgerTime by Winslinator in 05:03.29