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Player (42)
Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany
thatguy wrote:
Just the other day I read an article pinning all the blame for the current tragedy in Venezuela on the west, which had been supposedly working to undermine Venezuela's sovereignty and bring down the Chavista revolution - all the usual tropes of the far-left conspiracy theorist were there, at one point it even called one of the Venezuelan opposition leaders a Zionist. It was all a pretty disgusting denial of the inconvenient truth.
That is extremely common to hear in South America. You can actually understand where it comes from by noting that the whole place was developed initially as an agrarian colony for the world's powers, which did not care about the region's industrialization until they realized they would gain a lot of money putting corporations there. In any case, I agree that Latin America is full of psychotic socialist regimes that blame everything on private companies, but there is more than enough evidence of US sponsored coup d'etát's in the entire region since at least the 50's, which simply allowed foreign companies to come in paying almost no tax and making work conditions horrible for everyone. The choice is not easy. Anyway, there is also manipulation on the other side, too. If you read magazines like Veja, pretty much every news involve how worker unions are a nuisance to the economy, government employees are extremely inefficient and gain money for doing nothing, everything should be privatized, while controversial policies like budget cuts to health services and education are simply not mentioned.
Player (80)
Joined: 8/5/2007
Posts: 865
I think the overall level of discourse on socialism is extremely poor. I agree with andypanther in that "socialism" is a sort of catch-all term for a whole spectrum of political theories that are, in essence, anti-capitalist. Just as capitalism can have dire consequences if it is poorly implemented, so can socialist ideas. I also strongly agree with Patashu that we are nearing a point where we will need to figure out what to do about the millions of jobs consumed by automation. I've noticed in America (and I suspect there's similar trends abroad) an emerging "bureaucratic economy", where jobs are increasingly about shuffling meaningless paperwork around. For example, while I'm generally supportive of Common Core standards, they've been implemented bureaucratically at the state and district levels, forcing instructors to document how every single problem supports the Common Core curriculum. I see more and more jobs about generating paperwork, then jobs about validating that paperwork, then jobs about filing that paperwork... I won't say that those jobs are actually making life worse, but it's hard to justify paying someone $40,000+ a year to do them, especially when it already might as well be automated. So many people aren't really doing anything. Patashu is absolutely right that, like it or not, we pretty much need a universal basic income. Despite right-wing fantasies, we can't let the poor languish and die in the streets-- they'll eventually rebel and follow down Venezuela's path, capitalist and socialist economies alike. I'm ultimately hopeful that we'll work our way through it, but these are nonetheless scary times.
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Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 1107
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Something that people need to realize is that a completely "free" market is just as utopian as a completely planned economy. A truly "free" market does not exist and aside from a few very radical libertarians, no one even wants one.
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Posts: 11475
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andypanther wrote:
Something that people need to realize is that a completely "free" market is just as utopian as a completely planned economy. A truly "free" market does not exist and aside from a few very radical libertarians, no one even wants one.
I so much second this. Even if you abstract away from someone's will to implement a true free market, you will see that nothing is actually evolving where marke has been given too much freedom. Because if market and profit and the only measures of everything, the whole system quickly degenerates, because everyone will be happier while applying less efforts and getting more profit. Such abilities are given by power that one happened to gain within the free market. And then, the one who possesses these abilities and this power becomes a dictator, just not (or not only) politically: corporations have their means to dictate us their will, no matter how degenerate and counter-productive it is. So yeah, none of the existing recipes will work universally. Mankind has to develop new solutions from scratch.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
EZGames69
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Posts: 2761
[MOD EDIT: Posts split from Thread #21689: COVID-19 (coronavirus) compiled information and discussion] I’m going to leave this video here in in case there’s still doubt that Trump didn’t respond horribly. Link to video
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
EZGames69
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If I may ask, does this mean we shouldn’t talk about how the spread was handled in most areas? The lack of handling of everything is essentially why the spread is so large, it’s inevitable that politics is going to be brought up at some point.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Patashu
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Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4043
The intent of 'no politics' is that people want to talk about: * What's going on * What people are doing and how people are feeling * What I should personally do and how I should personally feel Rather than: * Who should be blamed * Who's responsible * Who we should feel good about and bad about It doesn't mean 'don't describe reality accurately', it means 'not everything that's a part of reality is equally important right now, so focus on stuff that matters to individual TASVideos posters' EDIT: And if you specifically want political coronavirus content, https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/ is good for the US centric left wing perspective.
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
EZGames69
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Fair enough
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
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Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Yeah, that's specifically why I only post all the COVID-related memery and talk about my country's own (for the most part exceedingly poor) handling of the epidemic on Discord and keep this thread for the serious and on-point stuff. So, even though people have been sensible thus far (thank you!), I'd still like to put it into words and ask everyone to keep the thread meme-free at least until this thing is behind us. With that said, I have an update to the OP coming in the next few hours, with some more recent news, data references and a new section.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Post subject: Politics in 2020
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[MOD EDIT: Original topic: Thread #21939: itch.io Bundle for Racial Justice. 1700+ items for $5!] [MOD EDIT 2: Reminder to try to keep debate civil and follow the rules. Refrain from personal attacks or name-calling.] I hope this doesn't open the floodgates for making tasvideos.org a website for political activism.
EZGames69
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Warp wrote:
I hope this doesn't open the floodgates for making tasvideos.org a website for political activism.
Standing up for human rights should never be political.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
TiKevin83
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Joined: 3/17/2018
Posts: 358
Location: Holland, MI
If you go through the donation links you'll see that the "Bundle for Racial Justice and Equality" redirects to an ActBlue campaign. The bundle is essentially cleverly disguised superPAC campaign funding for Democrats. This is wildly different from simply donating directly to bail funds or other human rights oriented charities.
Mitjitsu
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EZGames69 wrote:
Warp wrote:
I hope this doesn't open the floodgates for making tasvideos.org a website for political activism.
Standing up for human rights should never be political.
What the OP posted has nothing to do with human rights.
EZGames69
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Posts: 2761
Mitjitsu wrote:
EZGames69 wrote:
Warp wrote:
I hope this doesn't open the floodgates for making tasvideos.org a website for political activism.
Standing up for human rights should never be political.
What the OP posted has nothing to do with human rights.
It's about Justice for black people, who are in fact, humans. So yeah it's human rights.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
RetroEdit
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Posts: 152
TiKevin83 wrote:
If you go through the donation links you'll see that the "Bundle for Racial Justice and Equality" redirects to an ActBlue campaign. The bundle is essentially cleverly disguised superPAC campaign funding for Democrats. This is wildly different from simply donating directly to bail funds or other human rights oriented charities.
Uh, no, I think I'll have to push back on that. Firstly, the bundle's proceeds are split between two funds: the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and the ActBlue's collection of legal bail funds. Saying that the bundle "redirects" to an ActBlue campaign completely fails to mention the other half of the proceeds, which is misleading in my opinion. Secondly, there's no indication that the funds going to the ActBlue bail funds page can be used for campaign funding. The page has a specific list of organizations the funds will be distributed to. The page also lists places to contact for the organization's financial reports at the bottom of the page, so it can be audited.
Mitjitsu
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Posts: 2997
EZGames69 wrote:
Mitjitsu wrote:
EZGames69 wrote:
Warp wrote:
I hope this doesn't open the floodgates for making tasvideos.org a website for political activism.
Standing up for human rights should never be political.
What the OP posted has nothing to do with human rights.
It's about Justice for black people, who are in fact, humans. So yeah it's human rights.
To claim there is wide scale human rights abuses against specifically black people in America is frankly absurd.
TiKevin83
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To Retroedit - I think you're right about the 50/50 split with NAACP funds. On the ActBlue half though, the funds get murky quickly. The way ActBlue's disclaimers work it's more like money donated is made available to a specific organization like these bail funds, but whatever amount they are unable or choose not to use gets pooled back to ActBlue itself to choose how to reallocate, where it can end up funding campaigns. Mitjitsu - How is that helpful at all? Noone here is saying anything absurd, certainly least of all the goals of the charity work.
Mitjitsu
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TiKevin83 wrote:
Mitjitsu - How is that helpful at all? Noone here is saying anything absurd, certainly least of all the goals of the charity work.
I'll try and break down what EZ is saying because he's using semantics (knowingly or unknowingly) He said that standing up for human rights shouldn't be considered political. Yes, I agree it's generally honorable to campaign on it, but it's is nearly always done in a partisan way to spite someone else or a group. He then followed up with this statement
It's about Justice for black people, who are in fact, humans. So yeah it's human rights.
The first part of that means nothing without context, as that would involve explaining where the injustice is. Human Rights stems from the name of an international agreement created by the UN in 1948. Most of it I can agree with apart from the equality and non-discrimination bit, which is vague and impossible to define in most cases. Yet activists and politicians love to stoke flames and cry wolf claiming there is some kind of human rights violation in relation to that section. For the purposes of personal or political gain.
endrift
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Joined: 12/14/2014
Posts: 161
Mitjitsu wrote:
EZGames69 wrote:
Mitjitsu wrote:
EZGames69 wrote:
Warp wrote:
I hope this doesn't open the floodgates for making tasvideos.org a website for political activism.
Standing up for human rights should never be political.
What the OP posted has nothing to do with human rights.
It's about Justice for black people, who are in fact, humans. So yeah it's human rights.
To claim there is wide scale human rights abuses against specifically black people in America is frankly absurd.
I'd love to know where you get your news because it seems like you have a pretty massive caldera in your knowledge of what's been going on with racial tensions in North America over the past *checks notes* 528 or so years.
Mitjitsu
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That's pretty deep if you're going begin from when Columbus first discovered America, and claim that's somehow a major contributing cause for whats happening now. Other than simply race baiting I demand you back up your claims.
CoolHandMike
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[politics is too hot right now, removing]
discord: CoolHandMike#0352
endrift
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> "race baiting" yeah haha anyone who uses that term isn't worth discussing this with, since they have preconceived notions of what racial relations are that exclude actually listening to the oppressed races, and dismissing their grievances as political skulduggery. Demand all you want, I have better things to do with my time.
Memory
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Columbus didn't really discover America given there were a bunch of people already living on it...
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Patashu
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Posts: 4043
I find sources make for much better debate material than assertions, so let's look at some facts that are by now extremely well established: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/15/bame-offenders-most-likely-to-be-jailed-for-drug-offences-research-reveals For equivalent (in this case drug related) crimes, black people are incarcerated 1.4x times more often than white people. (It's also notable that men are incarcerated 2.4x more than women - there is certainly more than one kind of institutional bias that exists!) This is despite the fact that white and black people use the relevant drugs at around the same rate. https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/minorities-who-whiten-job-resumes-get-more-interviews Resumes are more likely to result in a call if the name given on the resume sounds 'white' rather than 'black', even if the content is otherwise identical. https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/reports/2018/02/21/447051/systematic-inequality/ Generational poverty still exists - black families are far more likely than white families to be poor, on the level of an order of magnitude, due to previously existing practices such as redlining. This means that bias against poor people often ends up being bias against black people too. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/ When it comes to the police killing civilians, they don't MAJORITY kill black people, but they do DISPROPORTIONATELY kill black people (at a higher % than the number of black people in the overal population). https://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/13/health/black-men-larger-study-trnd/index.html A psychological biases causes us to see black people as bigger and more muscular than white people, even when the two people are of the same build. https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/un-report-on-racial-disparities/ "African Americans are more likely than white Americans to be arrested; once arrested, they are more likely to be convicted; and once convicted, and they are more likely to experience lengthy prison sentences. African-American adults are 5.9 times as likely to be incarcerated than whites and Hispanics are 3.1 times as likely." https://www.pewtrusts.org/~/media/legacy/uploadedfiles/pcs_assets/2012/pursuingamericandreampdf.pdf "Blacks have a harder time exceeding the family income and wealth of their parents than do whites." "Blacks are more likely to be stuck in the bottom (of the economic ladder) and fall from the middle than are whites" - Racism doesn't have to be a cultural practice of people calling black people racial slurs, or specific people in places of power who are racist, and it doesn't need 'no blacks' laws or signs to manifest - it can be the sum of institutional biases, unequal upbringings and unequal opportunities, where no one person is responsible or at fault but the system as a whole develops emergent behaviour of racial bias. And to be 100% clear, there's more than one kind of bias that exists - there's biases against men, against women, against the poor, against hispanics and so on. All of these are certainly worth examining as well, but they should each be given their own space to breathe and fight their own battles, rather than suggesting one cause is more important than another cause. Once we are aware of these biases and agree they are unfair, we can agree to implement policy and oversight to correct these biases to where they should be, and invest in stronger social nets for those in poverty stricken households and neighbourhoors. (Also, can we please decriminalize most drug usage? I can't believe we're still locking people up for marijuana in 2020.)
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It appears my wish was not fulfilled.
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