Regarding to Gotham's Toy Factory, I don't understand one thing:
why do you hit at 1:21 with one player.
Is it really doesn't matter: both players hits, or single player hits?
Yes, absolutely no matter how fast these enemies are killed, so B&R decided to use this free time to practice martial art to impress each other.
If you remember truck stage 1-4 where Truncated already made similar play with balloons for same reasons.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
“Alice: This is impossible.
The Mad Hatter: Only if you believe it is.”
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
did you know about down + A+B hit from air?
as I see moving this way can be faster in some cases. (when no mobs around)
If you didn't, I'm curious why no one check how other ppl plays.
11 frames * 3.0 speed + 1 frame * 2.84375 speed cycle. (approximately)
vs 21 frames 3.0 speed + 7 frame * some mess speed cycle. (approximately)
@r57shell
Нужно бежать со всех ног, чтобы только оставаться на месте, а чтобы куда-то попасть, надо бежать как минимум вдвое быстрее!
At flat surface optimal moving speed is 2.998828 = 29 frames at exact 3.00000 + 1 frame at 2.96484.
Main point of animation above is not a speed but to show impossible jump thru beam without getting damage.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Hi, I'm interested in trying out this game, it seems like alot of fun to optimize and the music would help out making this game less boring to do.
I noticed Truncaded and Archanfel were working on this game together, may I ask if you're still working on it? I'd like to work on this game via bizhawk so trying to compare gens vs bizhawk may not work well.
Edit: I may attempt to sync the wips you guys have to work in bizhawk, as long as there's no lag or rng differences it should be easy
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Sad to confess but in last year there were 0% progress. My plans and reality for 2019 went in opposite directions... I had absolutely no time for TAS and don’t know when i can resume work.
However i can not call it fullly abandoned. Flame of TAS in my heart is not yet extinguished. I still hope to come back one day to TASing, wear bat-costume once again and finish this project eventually.
If this year i will fail to return to TASing again, well then i will give up everything to your hands EZGames69.
Meanwhile i deeply apologize that project is freezed for so long time and i ask to wait yet longer. Sorry for such extroordinary long delay.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Thanks for the update, I appreciate it.
also my attempt at syncing to 2.4 didn’t work well, the first stoppage of screen scrolling in the first level seems to have a different behavior compared to gens. If I delay some movement it should work just fine, but there’s definitely some issues with different emulation going on.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
The RNG in this game is very sensitive, so I'm not surprised. It might have desynched earlier, just that it becomes apparent at scroll stop, because you actually have to fight the enemies then.
EZGames, If you want access to the latest version, let me know. Currently it's stuck at the jumping boss in the mushroom stage, because I can't think of a good way to optimize it properly. (I can explain more in detail if you want.) If you figure that out, the run would perhaps be on its way again.
I actually just figured out why it was desyncing, batman is supposed to grab a powerup from the first trash can, but the rng changed which one dropped (should be the one that fires them diagonally).
I’ll try to resync it again so I’d definitely like the current version if you dont mind. I cant guarantee I’ll get far but it’s worth trying at least.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
I sent you the movie. You should also check out the lua script which has an RNG display:
User movie #60949290389503023
The RNG is a two byte number at 0xFFF5FC. It changes every frame by itself, and additional times when a function asks for the RNG. Things which call the RNG include upgrade drops (as you've seen), projectile trajectory, type of melee attack and enemy behavior.
In the black screen while the first stage loads, the RNG stays at A1C6 for a while. For your movie conversion to sync it needs to be the same in BizHawk.
The reason the 3-3 boss is so tricky is because the height/length of his jump is decided by RNG. To be optimal you need to be hitting him with every projectile from both players. Normally you would record one player at a time, and change your position and attack direction during the boss' jump, and compensate for the random deviation of each projectile. But then, when you try to record the second player, the boss will no longer behave the same, or even if it does, the already recorded player's projectiles will not have the same trajectory and miss.
Having both players in the same position would make it easier to record both at once, but when the boss dies, the characters need to be on opposite sides of the screen for the end level animation to start.
@EZGames69
In case if you will successfully resync movie and gonna to finish this TAS please do not miss these three very important points:
1)At the Mad Hatter's table 3-4 is possible to skip one of lock screens completely. It will save about 10 seconds.
2)At the last screen of 4-1 amount of enemies that needs to be killed to finish this level is different every time. It is really strange place, sometimes hell a lot of them, sometimes just a several.
I am 99% sure that with luck manipulation it should be possble to have complete absence of enemies and achive nearly instant victory.
3)At the end of autoscroller level just before final boss Mr. Freeze, is possible to manipulate to have a drop of two "charge items" with using them boss can be defeated really quickly.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
so I was able to get past the first desync spot but the 2nd stoppage seems to have different enemy behavior
I wonder if making batman or robin throwing objects during downtime will advance rng enough to fix this desync.
I believe it will sync if rng manipulation is perfect, which we ahve alot of chances to do with the downtime we have.
edit: also sent the file back to you truncated
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
I believe it will sync if rng manipulation is perfect, which we ahve alot of chances to do with the downtime we have.
I agree with the first part, but I disagree with the second part.
In the movie you sent, the desync happens exactly at frame 2109, which corresponds to frame 2096 in the old movie (13 frames apart). On this frame, Gens calls the RNG 3 times, but BizHawk calls it 4 times.
So what you would have to do is remove one RNG call before this, which isn't easily done. There aren't many (any?) extra attacks to remove. And adding attacks until you get sync might fix this particular instance, but the RNGs will then be hopelessly out of sync for the rest of the movie.
Wouldn’t it be possible to call rng enough times to loop around to the correct position?
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Probably not. The RNG is a two byte number, so there are around 65,000 possible values. It doesn't increase linearly but uses some formula to get the next number, so all numbers might not be used, but even if it's just 1%, it won't be possible.
Just to be sure, you could test the periodicity by letting the game run at some place where it only increases once per frame, and check how long it takes before the same number appears again (preferably with a script).
Hope for getting this to sync is decreasing every time you bring up this information.
I believe what will help you with the mushroom stage boss is if you were working with TAStudio, as you can simultaneously edit eaxh player’s movements, this way RNG would be easily manipulatable.
You said doing kicks maniplates rng? If that’s the case then why not remove one kick from the area that the “GO” sign appears?
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
You said doing kicks maniplates rng? If that’s the case then why not remove one kick from the area that the “GO” sign appears?
No, I didn't say that, but perhaps I was not specific enough. Only projectile attacks and standing melee attacks advance the RNG. Jumping kicks do not.
The reason is that ranged attacks have a random trajectory deviation, and standing melee attacks have a random choice between punch/kick/headbutt. But jump kicks are always the same, so the RNG is not advanced.
if you were working with TAStudio, as you can simultaneously edit eaxh player’s movements,
I am very poor at TASstudio (branches, how do they work?), but yes, it would probably help.
There is still the issue of finding a good strategy for the boss, though. You could look into that and record a proof of concept in BizHawk, from savestate, if you want to try out the game. There is enough time to set up any position before the boss appears.
Oh, you just made me understand rng better. I didn’t realize that something that calls for RNG can cause it to advance. That makes much more sense to me. I’ll see if this fixes things.
And yeah, if I cant get this to work, at the very least I’ll try to make a proof of concept tas for that boss in bizhawk
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
so unfortunately I was unsucessful with getting things to sync, rng manipulation is very limiting at the very beginning of the game and it doesnt seem feezable to do.
I can at least try the other option Truncaded mentioned by doing a test movie of that boss, I suck at this game so I'll just use a level code to get to that stage, no need for a savestate (though I cant guarantee the method will work exactly the same in gens, because RNG is awful)
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
so my execution is pretty sloppy but this is kinda what I think the method should be for this, since it's hard to predict which way the boss goes, maybe try using the same method from the Cheshire Cat to keep it in place. every time you finish your kicking animation you can start throwing your projectiles near it to do extra damage.
I have no idea how to get the boss to do short hops or not, if that is rng dependent then that should be somthing to possibly manipulate.
damage would most definitly be less here since kicks are not as powerful (at least it seems to be, idk if there was a better kicking powerup or somthing)
let me know if this method might work, if not then sorry for wasting your time, here is the movie file: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/62366729724948469
and here's an encode of just the boss itself:
Link to video
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
So I tested the movie tile in 2.4.1 to try again, and this time I got some better behavior at the start.
So far it seems that RNG is being more cooperative, the first screen halt syncs perfectly, but as soon as the explosions stop on the 2nd screen halt, it desyncs. However I think this is due to an invisible lag frame and not from RNG differences.
This should be easier to deal with for both TASers, so I’ll provide the movie file once I’m home and confirm sync on 2.4.2 (I’ll also say which frame the desync appears to happen.)
EDIT: here we go, Desync seems to happen at around frame 2069 in BizHawk 2.4.2:
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/63418557201295373
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Hi EzGames, sorry, I haven't been visiting lately and missed your last three posts.
I have no idea how to get the boss to do short hops or not, if that is rng dependent then that should be somthing to possibly manipulate.
It was a long time since I experimented with it, but I'm fairly certain it is RNG-dependant.
damage would most definitly be less here since kicks are not as powerful (at least it seems to be, idk if there was a better kicking powerup or somthing)
You are right that kicks aren't as powerful here. There is no kick powerup in the game, but the cat boss has a special modifier that makes it receive double damage from kicks. I don't know of any other boss with this modifier.
Because of this, and because weapons are at max level at this point, going full auto on standard projectiles (especially with jump trick) is higher DPS than kicking mixed with charged projectiles.
EDIT: here we go, Desync seems to happen at around frame 2069 in BizHawk 2.4.2:
That's the exact same frame as it desynced on before, isn't it? :(
EDIT: here we go, Desync seems to happen at around frame 2069 in BizHawk 2.4.2:
That's the exact same frame as it desynced on before, isn't it? :(
Seems like it, but I identified the exact reason for the desync, it is due to lag, not RNG.
Unfortunately the game does not show lag frames in TAStudio, so it will have to be figured out where to add frames to accommodate for this.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
So I just want to say I am done trying to attempt to get this to sync in bizhawk. It’s really difficult to work around lag frames you cant see, and it’s already unlikely that anyone is going to beat this movie in the future.
I know it’s really difficult to work with a boss where their movements are constantly changing, especially when you are limited to traditional method of tasing. But honestly at this point I don’t think it matters if you aren’t 100% optimized with the boss. Just do the best you can with what you’re working with. I really want to see this TAS in full force.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
If this year i will fail to return to TASing again, well then i will give up everything to your hands EZGames69.
Meanwhile i deeply apologize that project is freezed for so long time and i ask to wait yet longer. Sorry for such extroordinary long delay.
