Here are levels 16 and 17, for Gate Thief #1.
On Level 16, Challenger employs a super-human trick to grab the Potion of Warp at the exact moment he lands on the ground, but I don't think it's possible for a human. That may be the only place to save more time on this level, as I think my plan is pretty solid.
(Edit in Spring 2020: it's actually an easy trick. Just have to press A + R at the same time when you land.)
Level 17 doesn't have any relevant gates, so it functions about the same as Level 10. Unlike Level 10 though, all sprites seem to be able to perform consistently on Level 17, as I have matching records across all types, including the Normal Prince.
There is one trick that needs to be performed to get the best possible Game Clock Time. The Monster reaches the bottom of the stairs about a half second before his Intro Music transitions into his Battle Music. He does pause and wait for the secondary musical cue programmed into the music. If you use the "Select" Menu for a half second during his descent, he will not pause, and the half second will be saved from the Game Clock. In theory, this trick does not improve real-world time, and actually might hurt it by a couple of 60ths of a second.
One point of interest: since the Gate Thieves can skip gates, they can go back into the hallway, after the Boss Fight has begun, which freezes the Monster in an invisible state in the hallway. The battle continues, no matter how far away you run, so it is not possible to climb to the Potion Room, as the Prince will keep trying to pull his sword out, and fall back down. The Monster only freezes up like this because of the gate. If you completely remove the gate from the level design (via Level Editor on an Emulator ROM), the Monster will continue to follow you into every room, including upstairs in the Potion Room.
Link to video
"Gate Thief #1 - Level 16 - 1:05"
465 frame rule units = 65.64705 seconds.
Link to video
"Gate Thief #1 - Level 17 - 0:30"
211 frame rule units = 29.78823 seconds.
This is Level 18, for Gate Thief #1. I'm extremely proud of this run.
As I continued to tweak the first half, leading up to the first guard, my primary guide was the music itself. I would listen for what notes were playing as I climbed towards the guard, and listened for the last note before I could interrupt the music by killing the guard. The second half of the level was basically just following known theory, although it took quite a lot of practice! I think this is a really solid run, and I don't think the TAS creators will be able to beat it!
Link to video
"Gate Thief #1 - Level 18 - 2:02"
869 frame rule units = 122.68235 seconds.
For Level 19, Gate Thief #1, I will show three videos.
The first video shows what I think may be the perfect time, although it is possible a TAS may be able to achieve sharper timing with the Kill Button during the Super Boss Fight.
The second video shows a simple trick to save over 7 seconds of Real-World Time. The result of the extra opening and closing of menus hurts the Game Clock by 2 time units (perhaps less, for a TAS). But this is good compensation, since the Official Time will be at least 7.6 seconds improved.
The third video is just a simple comparison, showing the two previous videos side by side for a few seconds, to demonstrate how much time is really saved.
The trick itself is very easy and logical. It can be performed under normal circumstances by pushing START + SELECT to bring up the SOUND MENU, then quickly selecting the first sound option, which is the chime for the Konami Logo before the Title Screen. As soon as you select this sound, you press SELECT one more time to freeze the game clock while this very short musical cue plays through. When the musical cue ends, unpause, and Jaffar will raise his hand to summon the first guard, over 7 seconds ahead of schedule.
For DEBUG MODE, the Sound Menu is the second selection on the Debug Menu. However, there is a problem! Any time you use a Warp Glitch (for instance, to acquire the Gate Thief sprite), a couple of things happen: (1) Kill Button is Activated. (2) Debug Mode is initiated. (3) The START + SELECT function is temporarily lost, pending the input of the Debug Command.
B, Y, Up, Down, Left, Right, L, R.
If you do not spend a couple of seconds activating DEBUG MODE at some point during the entire run (a TAS may be able to input all those buttons in a fraction of a second), you cannot do this trick.
However, as I said, this trick can be performed under normal conditions where no warp glitches or special sprites have been accessed.
Link to video
"Gate Thief #1 - Level 19 - 1:15"
530 frame rule units = 74.82352 seconds.
Link to video
"Gate Thief #1 - Level 19 - 1:15 - Time Trick"
532 frame rule units = 75.10588 seconds.
Link to video
"Gate Thief #1 - Level 19 - Time Trick Comparison"
Approximately 7.60 seconds are saved between these two specific performances.
And here is Level 20, for Gate Thief #1. You can see from the video timer that from the First Frame of Level 20 to the First Frame of the Princess's Bedroom is just under 33 seconds. (32.838 seconds according to the frame count.)
Of course, you can spend a little extra time running towards the wall in Jaffar's Arena, which will put you close enough to the Bedroom Door to finish Level 20 in "0:00" for the Best Times list. The game clock only counts time in the hallway after you beat Jaffar, and the Select Menu trick can be used to keep that count at 0:00.
As this is just a demonstration for the sake of completeness, I didn't do those tricks, and as yet I have not really tested things to see if I can save a few frames. But it will suffice for general knowledge.
Link to video
"Gate Thief #1 - Level 20 - 0:33"
For this performance, Full Real World Time from the commencement of the End-of-Level music on Level 19 to the First Frame of the Princess's Bedroom Scene is:
40.175 seconds.
For those of you who didn't do the math, we have a total of 5,796 time units proudly shown in the above videos for levels 7 thru 19 with Gate Thief #1, which equals 13:38.25 on the game clock. To this, we can add 2:35.6 for the Gate Thief #1 emulator setup (from my forthcoming video), and 55.5 seconds for level 6, which includes warp lag and cut scene. I wasted a lot of time making sure everything was very clear and easy to follow during the setup, so this can probably be reduced by a couple of seconds when a serious attempt is put together. To all this, we may add 1:51.1 for cut scenes, select menu time, and screen transitions, as calculated by comparing Challenger's TAS Video time to his Game Clock time over that range. And finally, a casual calculation for the Level 20 video above, from the commencement of the End-of-Level Music at the End of Level 19, to the first frame of the Princess's Bedroom Scene, yields another 40.175 seconds.
However, since the emulator-friendly setup takes longer, there is not enough time to acquire Invincibility Mode, so we must add approximately 10 seconds for converting levels 13 and 14 to the non-Invincibility routes. And another 2-3 seconds for miscellaneous delays, lag, etc., including reactivating the Sound Menu after warp (Debug Code, to setup the Level 19 Sound Trick).
Finally, we can subtract 7.6 seconds for the Sound Trick on Level 19.
02:35.600 -- setup.
00:55.564 -- level 6 with warp lag.
13:38.258 -- level 7 thru level 19, game clock.
01:51.100 -- level 7 thru level 19, cut scenes, pauses, transitions.
00:40.175 -- level 20.
19:40.697 -- sub-total.
00:10.000 -- converting 13 & 14 to non-invincibility routes.
00:03.000 -- input Debug command; incidentals, unknowns, extra lag.
19:53.697 -- sub-total.
00:07.600 -- subtract time for Sound Trick savings on Level 19.
19:46.097 -- maximum Real World Time. probably closer to 19:43.
From the 19:43 figure, we would still need to find 8 more seconds of savings before Invincibility Mode becomes an option, to stay under the 20 minute mark.
The Console Setup for Gate Thief #1 is about 20 seconds faster, so there's plenty of room with that setup to decide which route you want to take: to focus on best individual level times (with Invincibility); or to focus on best over-all time (without Invincibility).
The best known setup for Gate Thief #2 actually has invincibility built into the setup.
So, more videos coming! I've already finished the Emulator-Friendly Setup for Gate Thief #1. I'll upload that later, after I take a break. I hope you guys enjoy all these individual levels I've spent months perfecting!!
reminder: when I say "Console Setup", I mean a Console Reset Button is used in the process. when I say "Emulator-Friendly Setup", I mean I do not use the reset button, as some emulators do not behave the same.
oh yeah, lol, here's a silly video of me beating the game in 1:12 without using passwords on the Continue Page. Everything you need for this run is provided for by performing the simple warp to Level Zero. This warp automatically activates Kill Button, which you can use to kill Jaffar quickly. And it also activates Debug Mode. A side effect of the warp glitch is that it temporarily disables the START + SELECT function. But then you can just input the Debug Activation Command to fix START + SELECT, and then use Debug Menu and Level Jump to move to Level 20 immediately.
Link to video
completed in 71.716 seconds.
edit: lol, this video has already been obsoleted. I think I should be able to beat the game in about 47 seconds, using a different (quicker) warp to activate Debug.
Well, I guess it's time. Here's the World Premiere of the Gate Thief #1 setup, with an official speedrun time of 20:15.993.
Below the video, I will provide detailed stats, comparing the speedrun times for individual levels against the "perfect" times from my previous videos in this thread.
Gate Thief #1 is basically acquired by performing the "Rainbow Prince" trick, demonstrated in my previous video, followed by simply jumping into the wall (normally a fast level 8 warp). In this setup, instead of warping to level 8, the game returns to Main Menu, and the Gate Thief is active.
To conform to Speed-Run rules, I also needed to perform a trick in level 2, as demonstrated in a previous video, to regain access to Level 1 for a Warp to Level 6.
A faster setup can be done with Console Reset Button, by first doing a Warp to Level 6 checkpoint, completing level 6 to save the level 7 progress password into memory, and then reset the console. After aquiring Gate Thief, simply "Continue" progress to Level 7, which is about 10 seconds faster.
Another highlight of this video is the World Premiere of an independent Warp Glitch found inside Level 8, which grants Invincibility Mode! Of course, in this case it hurt my time by 31.5 seconds, because it takes 34.5 seconds to do it, and only saves 3 seconds in shortcuts. But still a fun secret for casual play! Now you can always grab Invincibility Mode, no matter what you're doing.
So, without further delay, here it is! I hope someone will make a TAS!
Link to video
STATS:
setup:____02:25.531.
inv8:_____00:34.774.
lvl 6:_____00:55.349__(+0)
lvl 7:_____00:59.184__+16.
lvl 8:_____01:22.559__(+7)
lvl 9:_____00:58.664__+1.
lvl 10:____01:26.332__+1.
lvl 11:____01:03.345__+3.
lvl 12:____00:39.682__+1.
lvl 13:____01:50.380__+11.
lvl 14:____01:03.280__+1.
lvl 15:____00:51.824__+2.
lvl 16:____01:14.317__+1
lvl 17:____00:39.023__+4.
lvl 18:____02:11.399__+5.
lvl 19:____01:31.789__+4.
lvl 20:____00:28.571
total:_____20:15.993
(estimated) In-Game Clock Time Loss for Levels 6-19:
57 time units = 8.047 seconds. (Due to making mistakes.)
The times for each level are here indicating Real World Time, by examination of video frames, from the first frame of the current level, to the first frame of the next level.
The marks after the time indicate how many In-Game time units I was behind (by decoding the passwords). Remember there are 7.08333333 time units, or "frame rules", per second.
So, with a "perfect run" using this exact setup & route, I could theoretically get my official Speed-Run time down to 20:08.040. However, you may be able to notice that I voluntarily wasted a lot of time on the Select Menu, to make sure everything could be seen and understood clearly, since this had to also act as a tutorial.
I estimate that another 3+ seconds could be saved with quicker menu action throughout the run. So maybe 20:05 is perfect for this configuration. Without Level 8 Invincibility, perhaps 19:40. We shall see!
UPDATE: I researched the non-Invincibility routes for 13 & 14 today. So far, level 13 is +13 units (1.835 seconds), and level 14 is +11 units (1.553 seconds). I might be able to get 13 down to +12, in which case we'll be looking at about 3.247 seconds added to the speedrun, against which 34.774 seconds is removed for skipping the Invincibility glitch.
That would be an improvement of 31.5 seconds, for a potential 19:35 total, or better!
Videos for 13 & 14 coming soon, and then I'll get busy on a non-Invincibility full speedrun.
Gate Thief #1 -- Route Updates:
Simplified the setup, 20 seconds shorter, now only 2:05 to start Level 6.
However, figured out how to Warp to 8 without rescrambled sprite (successfully warps as Gate Thief). This setup starts level 9 in about 3:45 - 3:50. I need to run it a few more times to see what "perfect" looks like. At this point, it seems corrupted "brick wall" sprite and severe lag for level 8 is unavoidable, but everything is cleared and clean for level 9 when the Princess cut scene pops up. So only one dirty level.
So, first guess, looks like a savings of 1.5 minutes. This may be getting dangerously close to 18 minutes total!!!
Videos coming soon!
Ok, got the new route recorded. Takes about 3:45 to start level 9. From the above speedrun, you can see Levels 9 - 20 takes about 14 minutes.
So this new route has a potential low time of about 17:40 - 17:45.
A TAS might possibly be below 17:40. Perhaps 17:35 - 17:38.
Link to video
"Gate Thief #1 - Warp 8"
I've recorded an improved level 6 warp setup for Gate Thief #1, about a 20 second improvement over the setup used in my previous Full Speedrun.
Using an identical performance for the remainder of the game from that speedrun, combined with this setup, the result would be about 19 minutes & 56 seconds. A perfect run would be closer to 19 minutes & 46 seconds. As you will recall, this speedrun route included the Invincibility Glitch, which wasted about 31 seconds.
So with this improved Level 6 setup, and no Invincibility, this route has a potential low time of around 19 minutes & 15 seconds.
Also notice that I did the risky quick fall at every ledge in level 1. This is risky for human game play, because the slightest irregularity in spacing can cause the glitches in hole #2 to behave differently, and ruin the setup. However, it appears that in this attempt, I avoided any spacing issues. So here's proof that a TAS should be able to maximize Level 1 performance, as long as the correct results are achieved.
Link to video
"Gate Thief #1 -- Improved Level 6 Warp"
Level 13 Update:
I finally got the spacing right for a U-turn after the first guard. This reduces the non-invincibility route (seen in this video) to 705 time units. If I am able to lose two more time units, and get it down to 703, the on-screen display will be reduced to "1:39". Although 705 = 99.5 seconds, the clock is rounded up this time.
In my next video, I will show the updated Invincibility Route, using this technique, and this route generally, with the Invincibility trick shown in the "Gate Thief #3" video for Level 13. That route is now reduced to 695 time units, and an on-screen display of "1:38."
Here's 705, with no invincibility:
Link to video
"Gate Thief #1 - Level 13 - No Invincibility - 1:40."
Level 13 updated Invincibility Route.
I used the technique from the previous video to show that the alternate Invincibility Route is actually a full second faster than the original route. I got it all the way down to 695 time units, as previously mentioned, with an on-screen clock display of "1:38."
Here's 695, with invincibility:
Link to video
"Gate Thief #1 - Level 13 - Updated Invincibility Route - 1:38."
And finally, the No-Invincibility version of Level 14. This is pretty standard stuff. I just combined the existing run with the TAS route. This is down to 405 time units, which is only 11 units (1.55 seconds) slower than the Invincibility Route.
405 time units = 57.17647 seconds, with "0:57" on-screen display.
Link to video
"Gate Thief #1 - Level 14 - No Invincibility - 0:57."
Before I get back to combining all these routes into another epic Speedrun, it's time for something fun!
Corrupt Level 20, bypassing the "Princess Cut-Scene", which would normally remove all video corruption.
This allows me to fight Jaffar while completely obscured by level corruption and sprite corruption.
Also, a fun glitch that causes the game to malfunction, by DYING AFTER THE GAME IS BEATEN!!!!!!
Link to video
"Corrupt Level 20."
I may try to test this a little further, but it seems the Warp to Level 16 cannot be used to save time. You can skip ahead to 4:00 if you want to see the Warp immediately.
I have found two instances where the Warp does not go, but instead scrambles the sprite again:
One is a variation of the Wiggling Guard (which is itself a variation of Gate Thief #2 who has lost his gate-skipping ability), and the other to a new Gate Thief, #4.
This new Gate Thief #4 is also a variation of Gate Thief #2, with similar gate skipping abilities, although much more limited, making it completely inferior and not worth using. The animation effects are very cool though. While running, the Prince does his slow-stepping animation, so there is a kind of Moon-Walking effect that really messes with your perception of how fast he is running across the screen. LOL.
Whereas Gate Thief #2 can jump through a gate from about 3 different exact distances, only two of these seem to work for Gate Thief #4. And he cannot run through gates under any circumstances. It is rather disappointing that he is so useless, because the Sprite Scramble is an amazing thing to see. If I am able to produce him again (it's very tricky), I'll record a video. It includes the Guard, Fat Guard, Skeleton, and a Purple Jaffar. And many interesting movements. Also, the Level 17 Monster sports an amazing array of sprites, including Jaffar, the Elephant, the Guards Dragging The Prince, and the Guard Beating The Prince. When the Monster dies, the "Guard" gives the "Prince" a really good thrashing! LOL.
Getting back to Warp 16, it is a very uncooperative Warp Zone, mostly freezing the game, or locking out the controller. It has made for some interesting combinations though. In the video here, I used the Warp 16 hole and it simply reset to Main Menu, whereupon I started a new game, and did a drop down hole #2. This combination caused a brilliant video corruption that I captured, prior to continuing to mess with Warp 16. The video starts on Level One, after the Brilliant Video Corruption has been created. So I explored Level One for a minute, to showcase this corruption, and then used Debug Mode to jump ahead to Level 15 to continue testing.
Theoretically, Gate Thief #1 could get to this "Warp 16" hole fairly quickly during the course of his speedrun, but I have yet to find a good Warp pattern.
Link to video
"Warp 16 and Brilliant Corruption"
Ok, got some preliminary numbers for Warp to Level 16.
I performed a console speedrun of 13:50 today (no Gate Thief, no gate skipping). I'm a bit rusty on the non-Gate Thief routes, so it was a little sloppy. I can probably save another 5+ seconds, and get it down below 13:45.
I've also mapped out a route using the Gate Thief. Basically, after completing level 16, you would do a console reset, do the standard Gate Thief setup on level 1, and then continue to level 17. A nice speedrun by that route should be able to get around 12:25. An average run with some mistakes should still come in under the 12:30 mark.
So, it's official, the game can be beaten in under 14 minutes for now! And sub-12.5 minutes soon!
And the news keeps coming!! I just got a 16:51 with No Kill Button!
This is the simplest setup involving the Warp to Level 16, because, unfortunately, this is one of the warps that does not activate the Kill Button. For the other routes (mentioned in the previous post), I had to activate the Kill Button by using a different warp first.
This 16:51 is incredible! Of course it's quite frustrating dealing with Guards again, after 4 months of speedrunning with the Kill Button. But I did ok. The amazing thing was that I killed all 4 of the Bosses on level 19 with the jump trick (after the Brown Guard). I don't recall the last time I got all of them without at least one slipping through.
What a day! Now I gotta get it on video. :P
Watched all of your progress during these months, and your research is so great that you did a much better work than me, and I like it!
Also great to hear that you managed to warp even further than every other warp.
My homepage
--Currently not much motived for TASing as before...--
But I'm still working.
I'm gonna go ahead and announce this little tidbit relating to the Warp to Level 16, so I don't forget later.
I have come across many warp glitches which result in Zero Time Remaining + Jaffar Already Defeated. However, this Warp to Level 16 is unique in being the first warp I've come across to result in Jaffar Already Defeated, with Time Still Remaining.
You would think this is a good thing, but it is not. It can cause a major delay, because when Jaffar is already defeated, you enter Level 20 on the Final Screen (NOT through the DOOR), in your immediately preceding position and action. This is fine when you are using Debug Menu to JUMP to Level 20, as can be seen in my earlier glitch video. But in official Speedrun and TAS conditions, you cannot use Level Jump.
Therefore, in the course of normal play, you would go into the EXIT DOOR at the end of Level 19, the Prince would proceed up the stairs, and "hide" behind the background wall. Then, when Level 20 begins, the Prince is in the exact same position: frozen behind the background wall. With no ability to move, you must use the Select Menu to Exit. And when you do this on Level 20 after Jaffar has already been defeated, this causes a Logo Reset, which means you would have to wait an additional 25 seconds for Logo, Title Screen, Main Menu, and Continue to Level 20.
The solution is very simple: After you complete level 16, and progress is saved, you can use the Select Menu to exit Level 17 immediately, and Continue to Level 17 again from the Main Menu. This will reset Jaffar's status to be Alive, and then level 20 will behave normally when you reach it.
Another side effect of the Warp to Level 16 is the annoying continuous game clock display. Restarting level 17 will also remove this bug, and prevent further lag time throughout the rest of the run.
As it turns out, this Warp to Level 16 is very rich, full of diversity and potential. I've already discovered some approaches that yield some very interesting results. In some cases, I've been able to warp without lag, game clock repetition, or the Jaffar Defeated Status. And I've found a couple of scenarios where this Warp ALSO transforms the Prince into a Gate Thief, which removes the necessity of separately preparing a Gate Thief Setup during the run.
There's still a lot of testing to be done, but I've already found some very good alternate routes, and things are starting to come together. My ultimate time prediction is down to about 12:05, so we're getting very close to the 12 minute mark. More updates coming soon. But I hope to have some more solid speedruns summited for Gate Thief Warp 6 and Warp 8 before I reveal the Warp to 16.
STAY TUNED!
I've confirmed a consistent "works every time" route to use the Warp to Level 16 with instant transformation into Gate Thief, and no "Jaffar Already Defeated" status, which simplifies things significantly. This Gate Thief is a very close cousin to Gate Thief #2. Two of his frame-perfect jumps will go through gates, and he can run through gates from the correct spacing. As it turns out, this variation seems to be a little more flexible on spacing for running through a gate. The interesting thing is that this one does not have a Sword. It's a Fat Guard, but he runs through the gates and jumps through anyway -- but only if the spacing is right! In some cases, the best approach is to collide with the gate, and then do a double-turn to run through.
I think I will share a sneak preview soon, of the second half of the run, starting from after the Warp, just as the prince is beginning to play Level 16 from the Checkpoint. (This Warp goes to the Checkpoint -- just like we have seen a Warp to the Level 6 Checkpoint in the past.)
I've just recorded a speedrun video where I complete the game in 12:11.405, using the Warp to Level 16 with the "Fat Gate Thief."
I suppose I'm going to go ahead and share it, despite its not being perfect. (I am a bit of a perfectionist.) But I guess this is a pretty big deal, and y'all should know about it. Who knows what may happen tomorrow?
I'll upload to youtube, and then post it here shortly, with some stats and a brief summary.
It's a pretty sloppy run. I still haven't learned level 4 yet. Once I do the u-turn at the crusher, that'll save about 4-5 seconds. I made a mistake at the beginning of 17 that cost 4 seconds, and a mistake at the beginning of 18 that cost 3 seconds. And I gave up about 3 seconds between levels 2 & 3, playing conservatively. So it does appear that this route can crack the 12 minute mark with very tight play. I will certainly attempt to break it with some more practice.
The combined setup for Gate Thief and Warp costs about 1:32, whereas the Gate Thief savings on levels 18 & 19 combined is over 2 minutes, so it pays for itself.
This setup uses the same Warp Spot twice. The first time, it triggers the Konami Logo and shifts you to the Fat Gate Thief (very similar to Gate Thief #2, who has made a few appearances in my videos). This is not an illegal console reset. The proof is the Gate Thief. If you do a console reset, the Prince's Sprite is always reset to the default appearance.
The second time, you warp to Level 16 Checkpoint. This route results in severe lag on level 16, and continuous game clock display. So at the beginning of level 17, after progress is saved, I exit the level, and use "Continue" to resume, with the game clock display bug fixed.
I have found alternate setups to make the warp basically perfect, with no lag and no game clock issues. But they all take longer, and lose time relative to the savings. So the route I'm showing here is the best, for now.
Without further delay, here is the Warp to Level 16, complete in an official speedrun format. -- 12:11.405. -- It appears this route can be completed in 11:57 with a perfect run.
There are a few different sprite combinations that can successfully trigger warp to level 16, including the Default Prince. However, some will go to the beginning of level 16, while others will go to the Checkpoint. And many sprites do not work at all. Part of it has to do with the way the different sprites bounce off the wall, after attempting to climb. They will fall to different positions on the screen, when the screen transition & exit are engaged.
Also, some sprites will go to level 16 with Jaffar's status set to "already dead", as I have explained earlier. If Jaffar is "dead", and you exit a level, you will trigger the Konami Logo sequence, and suffer a delay. To avoid this, quickly die to reset Jaffar's Status, and then exit & continue.
The current setup seen here involves the Fat Gate Thief warping to the Checkpoint with lag and game clock display issues, which are corrected in level 17. Also, this setup does not produce any Jaffar status issues. One other point of interest; this setup gives Invincibility Mode upon Warp to 16. As you may recall from my previous lessons, you lose Invincibility Mode when you return to the main menu. But since there are no good Invincibility Shortcuts to take advantage of on this route, it's ok to lose it here for the sake of removing the lag and the game clock issue.
See my previous post, or view the YouTube description for further commentary on this particular run.
Link to video
"Fat Gate Thief - Speedrun - 12:11.405"
