Mario & Luigi Bowser's Inside story is the third game in the series. Fawful is back and he wants to take over the mushroom kingdom. He gives a lucky? shroom to Bowser which gives him the ability to vacuum. Bowser then swallows everyone at the castle. Mario & Luigi must then team-up with Bowser to prevent Fawful from reaching his goal.

Game objectives

Version

Text is the same speed between japanese and english. It turns out that fire attacks in giant battles are a few seconds faster in the japanese version, but I still went with the english version.

RNG manipulation

A big part of the run is RNG manipulation. The formula is RNG(x) = floor(20.5x)&0x7fff + (x%2)*0x8000. RNG only changes when necessary in battle which means that I have to manipulate before the battle. The initial seed depends of the frame you enter the frame so I just wait until I get a good seed.

Battle comments

Bowser

The figth ends when you deal 20 damage after Toadsworth is gone.

Goombule

I delay the kill to prevent another one from spawning.

Goombule x2

Same thing for this fight.

Elite Goombule x2

This fight is pretty straightforward. Just use green shell.

Spike Blob x2

Again, I want to delay the kill.

Midbus

Another really straightforward fight.

Broque monsieur

I manipulate his attack and a lucky hit.

Sea pipe statue

Here, I manipulate 2 lucky hits. I also want three attacks both time and I want stone blooper to only spin once.

Scutlet

It is faster to jump than using green shell

Broggy

Just alternate between fire and punch.

Treevil

Using fire is faster for this fight

Wiggler

I manipulate 2 lucky hits and I avoid the turnip.

Durmite

Jumping is still faster. I want to avoid the straw as much as possible.

Bowser's castle

This is a straightforward fight

Midbus

I get hit to get a drumstick which gives a power boost. Shy guy squad is faster than punching. I also only get great to avoid cheering

Tenderling x2

Another straightforward fight

Kretin

I need a lucky hit to avoid kretin reforming.

Fawflant x2

Another straightforward fight.

Bowser

I use jump helmet for this fight.

Yikk tower

It's faster to use fire at the start and to let the tower repair.

Wisdurm

I get 2 lucky hits at the start to make the fight a lot faster.

Fawful express

This is another straightforward fight.

M&L memory

I target luigi first until he leaves, then I kill mario.

Sockop x4

I use Yoo-who cannon for a quick fight.

Chackron

Snack basket is required to finish this fight.

Junker

This is a quick fight. I also get special gloves.

Blizzard Midbus

I get fury to make this fight faster.

Dark Star

I get a lucky hit to make this fight a lot faster. I also get D-Star wear to help on damage.

Super peach's castle

Another straightforward fight.

Dark Fawful

I get 2 lucky hits on the helmet to kill it quickly. Then I use magikoopa mob to finish fawful off.

Dark Bowser / Dark Star Core

I use magikoopa for Dark Bowser and jump helmet for Dark Star. I get a lucky to end the fight quickly.

Tricks

Ledge clip

Similarly to Partners in Time, if Mario and Luigi stack under a low ceiling, they warp upwards. The only use in the run is to skip the air balloon tutorial.

Ledge boost

Mario can get a boost when walking off a ledge. The size of the boost depends on the angle of movement relative to the angle of the ledge and the distance to the ledge the frame before walking off it.

Toad boost

When entering an NPC's hitbox from above, Mario is boosted out of its hitbox.

Special thanks

Thanks to Hibari for getting a great WR. This was a good base for my routing.
Thanks to the M&L community for the support everytime I released a WIP.

Memory: Claiming for judging
Memory: Delaying until we can figure out what to do with the microphone input.
Memory: I think we have the microphone thing settled, now back to judging.
Memory: Updated file to have sample included
Memory: Optimization is for the most part good. There was one timesaver found 9 years ago by me that saved like 15 seconds that was completely forgotten for some reason and one new timesaver that was discovered long after submission but these things are not worth rejecting over in a nearly 5 hour run.
To me, the movie was not extremely entertaining but I feel I am a little biased in that regard due to my personal history with the game. There isn't too much flashy, but there are some clever moments here and there and some good movement when it comes to avoiding encounters. The game is extremely popular and the movie got all but one yes vote, leading me to believe I am the outliar in this case.
There was a code used to skip a section that otherwise consists of waiting for an arbitrary amount of time. This code can be found in game through normal means and was agreed to be considered intended normal play.
A modified release of desmume was created to be able to store microphone samples in movie files. We now request runs using microphone use this release from here on.
Accepting to Moons.
Not Spikestuff: Here lies Spikestuff he died Publishing this.


Memory
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Right before the Fawful Express, why do you actually need to see the puzzle solution first? Does the game not allow you to try to solve it blindly? EDIT: Also what is with the music disappearing upon collecting the last of the initial Dimble Woods attack pieces? Can that happen on console? EDIT2: At the start of airway, I could have sworn it was possible to dodge that second air cheap. Is it slower? EDIT3: At the end of the first liftoglobin section you collide into the wall while jumping to the pipe at the end, does that matter?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
vince1919
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Sadly, I have to see the solution. I tried all combinations and nothing happened 1. About the music, I have no idea what happens. 2. After retrying for a while, I found a way around the air cheep, which is a few seconds faster than getting the encounter. Link to video 3. It doesn't matter since there is no acceleration. You get to max speed immediately.
Memory
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I want to say back in the day I had found ways of avoiding every enemy in the game but it's been a bit and some of them are really hard. I could probably try looking into the remaining airway enemies. EDIT: Never mind I'm dumb actually the air cheap and the air shooters I didn't actually know how to skip.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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The #6033: NhatNM's PSX Monster Rancher 2 in 58:54.55 got rejected because: " we need an extra image to be created by hand so that it's not anything copyrighted. That would allow us to reproduce such an image freely anytime, as many times as needed, now and in the future, for the sake of replaying this movie." This movie uses a noise (someone blowing air in to a microphone). This audio was uploaded in 2010 probably by DeSMuMe authors. I'm not really sure about does this sound is: - non copyrighted - possible to reproduce the audio edit: - The audio probably made or at least uploaded by zeromus on 23:49, 12 December 2009) - Doesn't comply with point 1 and 2 of the rule Wiki: MovieRules.html#RomImageMustBeIntegral: "1. You need to use an image that's been generated specifically for the movie in question" - Not the case. "2. You need to provide clear instructions on how to recreate it" - Not the case.
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Since the audio is contained in the movie, it falls under the Creative Commons requirement for all movies, so everything is implied already.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I’d find it very questionable if someone were to use copyrighted audio for a DS TAS, what use is a clip of a song going to do for somthing like this?
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
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Correct, and also as this game proves, you can't always use just anything for mic audio input. This game expects the blowing sound, and it handles it specifically. It also explicitly tells you to blow into the mic, which is what this movie is doing.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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After rereading the chat logs with feos, let me write down again my problems divided to: 1. My notes only for this submission. 2. My notes for future submissions using audio. 1. The audio which is used as an input to progress the game is 100% not produced by the TASer in question. - Audio probably made by zeromus, uploaded in 2009. https://web.archive.org/web/20111112074652/http://wiki.desmume.org/index.php?title=File:Zeldanoise095.wav The two files (submission note link and zeromus' audio) checksum are the same. - (2019-04-03 17:54:19) feos: and it doesn't even need to be in the encode because the game doesn't output it <-- Just because it's not output, it still gets processed by the game. That is, different soundfiles might have different outcomes. Therefore it's a real factor in completing the game. 2. Regarding future submissions: - If a TASer want's to complete a game, he should at least use the same process as the game wants. Imagine completing a game released in 2010 but the audio used is from 1999. Imagine completing a game that act differently according to volume (for example PC Tonsil Terror). If the game waits for input from a microphone, than you shouldn't allowed to make a compressored audio sitting on 999 dB, in case if it's simply impossible to do with a microphone plugged in to a PC. Imagine a game acts differently according to various data of a sound (for example visualizers). - (2019-04-03 18:06:08) feos: also what point does "10GB cc zero song" prove? that we should ban 10GB cc zero songs in movies? I meant that as the above elaborated stuffs: Using an audio that made by someone else that probably impossible to replicate at bytes level (Try replicating a Jason Richardson solo). Using an audio that made before the game release / TAS / anything that related to the game and it's console's hardware. I could come up with more examples and write more details but I guess we already know these facts. I also understand we share different perspectives and I just don't know how to explain my view. So... I leave this here as it is now. edit: updated link, thanks fsvgm777
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MESHUGGAH wrote:
1. The audio which is used as an input to progress the game is 100% not produced by the TASer in question. - Audio probably made by zeromus, uploaded in 2009. https://web.archive.org/web/20111112074652/http://wiki.desmume.org/index.php?title=File:Zeldanoise095.wav The two files (submission note link and zeromus' audio) checksum are the same.
Yeah, you're right. BTW another link: https://files.tasvideos.org/2095/archives/desmume-mic-Zeldanoise095.zip
MESHUGGAH wrote:
- (2019-04-03 17:54:19) feos: and it doesn't even need to be in the encode because the game doesn't output it <-- Just because it's not output, it still gets processed by the game. That is, different soundfiles might have different outcomes. Therefore it's a real factor in completing the game.
Yes, and it doesn't mean we need to mix it into encoded audio.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
- If a TASer want's to complete a game, he should at least use the same process as the game wants. Imagine completing a game released in 2010 but the audio used is from 1999. Imagine completing a game that act differently according to volume (for example PC Tonsil Terror). If the game waits for input from a microphone, than you shouldn't allowed to make a compressored audio sitting on 999 dB, in case if it's simply impossible to do with a microphone plugged in to a PC. Imagine a game acts differently according to various data of a sound (for example visualizers).
Mic audio is just user input, similar to analog or buttons. We don't demand that gamepad or keyboard input is generated the way the game asks, we just send whatever it can digitally process. What we want is optimality. It's not our fault if the game fails to process some kind of data that it is meant to process. We reset during saving even though the game asks not to touch the console. It's not our fault the game doesn't properly verify save data. Same with mic audio.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
- (2019-04-03 18:06:08) feos: also what point does "10GB cc zero song" prove? that we should ban 10GB cc zero songs in movies? I meant that as the above elaborated stuffs: Using an audio that made by someone else that probably impossible to replicate at bytes level (Try replicating a Jason Richardson solo). Using an audio that made before the game release / TAS / anything that related to the game and it's console's hardware.
We record mic input into movies, you don't have to replicate anything.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
I could come up with more examples and write more details but I guess we already know these facts. I also understand we share different perspectives and I just don't know how to explain my view. So... I leave this here as it is now.
I don't have any problems with discussing the hell out of this subject as long as you have questions or complaints.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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First of all thank you for anwering again and sorry for "dissecting" the chat log. Somehow I need to present my arguments against another argument. A. Changing audio without reencoding: I am not familiar with the game, I just suppose there might be a difference (even if just 1 extra cpu cycle or mario becomes wario) with a different audio. B. According to your post above this... how do these are related to the PSX Monster Rancher (hope iirc) ? Any CD is just a user input,similar to audio. It's not our fault the game process some me data. Why the restrictions so hard then again? I insert the CD, no need to replicate if it would be contained in the 800 megabytes submission file.
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MESHUGGAH wrote:
Changing audio without reencoding: I am not familiar with the game, I just suppose there might be a difference (even if just 1 extra cpu cycle or mario becomes wario) with a different audio.
What was the argument about?
MESHUGGAH wrote:
According to your post above this... how do these are related to the PSX Monster Rancher (hope iirc) ? Any CD is just a user input,similar to audio. It's not our fault the game process some me data. Why the restrictions so hard then again? I insert the CD, no need to replicate if it would be contained in the 800 megabytes submission file.
The only problem is that the extra CD outright replaces the game image. We don't allow replacing the game image with arbitrary images. If this was done without taking out or otherwise interfering with the game CD, we wouldn't limit it the way we did.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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That argument was... - first used it as an example of being a factor. Saved for referencing later for he CD stuff. - last one is just a warning. Not familiar with the game so I wrotr two example of possible outcome if audio changed without reencoding. So if I have a PC with 3 drives where thr game CD is in drive 1, then I don't need to comply wih the rule?
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MESHUGGAH wrote:
So if I have a PC with 3 drives where thr game CD is in drive 1, then I don't need to comply wih the rule?
As long as you don't interrupt the main game execution, and don't swit to run code from those other CDs instead, it's fine.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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And how is this relevant to pressing the reset button on platforms where the game execution halts, leading to corrupting the save file, which could be potentially used as code? Why a CD requires "ever going game execution without suspending even for a moment" while abusing "save games" (or more like resetting the game (edit: or even the console, where even minutes can be passed without ever getting to the "game code"...) at the right time while it tries to write it) are allowed to stop the game and as we know, even start from a said save game.
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MESHUGGAH wrote:
And how is this relevant to pressing the reset button on platforms where the game execution halts, leading to corrupting the save file, which could be potentially used as code?
It's related directly to your thought:
MESHUGGAH wrote:
- If a TASer want's to complete a game, he should at least use the same process as the game wants. Imagine completing a game released in 2010 but the audio used is from 1999. Imagine completing a game that act differently according to volume (for example PC Tonsil Terror). If the game waits for input from a microphone, than you shouldn't allowed to make a compressored audio sitting on 999 dB, in case if it's simply impossible to do with a microphone plugged in to a PC. Imagine a game acts differently according to various data of a sound (for example visualizers).
The game wants us to not reset during saving, and we ignore that. If it wants you to say a certain word into the mic, we're not obliged to care, we just do what works optimally.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
Why a CD requires "ever going game execution without suspending even for a moment" while abusing "save games" (or more like resetting the game (edit: or even the console, where even minutes can be passed without ever getting to the "game code"...) at the right time while it tries to write it) are allowed to stop the game and as we know, even start from a said save game.
You're allowed to reset and power off for CD games as well, including during saving.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [4071] DS Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story by vince1919 in 4:49:49.35