Submission Text Full Submission Page

Before we get into the submission text....

This TAS was created by me, with help from the TASVideos discord (I mentioned it about 300 times in the submission text, my fault).
Go join it! TASVideos Discord

Now, the submission text!

Remember me? You know, the person who made those two very un-optimized TASes for this game?
Well, I'm back, with a TAS that's better than those, and obliterates the other two TASes.
2 Player Co-op Quest is a ROM Hack for the infamous Super Mario World. This ROM Hack is where the first player/controller is controling Mario, while the second player/controller is controling the enemies.
Patcher can be found here: https://www.romhacking.net/utilities/893

Objectives

  • Emulator used: BizHawk 2.3.1
  • Completes all the normal levels, as the bonus ones are not needed (was decided on with some other people, see Author's comments)
  • 2 Players
  • aims for fastest time (?)
  • no powerups
  • abuses programming errors (also see Author's comments)

Game Choice

I chose to TAS this hack because I had seen that nobody has done it. I know this hack is for more casual play, but I thought it would be interesting to TAS this hack, as there could be a potential "play-around" branch for this game. That would probably be the best thing ever. (Now that I thought about that, I might do that. Stay tuned, I guess.)
This hack also caught my eye because of the fact that P2 controls the enemies, which is pretty creative. Like I said above, this hack could potentially make a pretty interesting, short and entertaining "play-around" branch, which I am doing later.
I love playing this hack with my realitives, because it's just awesome to troll people with it. You should definitly try it out, whoever is reading this.
Another thing is that it's kind of hard to find a game or rom hack that has not been TASed yet. When I found out about this, I jumped right on it, which resulted in the un-optimized movie, because I had no idea how to make a TAS before that, watched some YT Videos, then decided to make it. Just saying, jumping right into TASing isn't the best thing to do.

Branch/Goal Choice

The reason why I chose to just do all the normal levels is because the bonus levels are technically not required to complete the game, and most of the input is up to the second controller for them. They would be pretty boring to watch, because they are SUPER long. Like, 1m30s.
However, just all the normal levels, which can be broken in sevral ways (see Author's comments) would be more entertaining because they are short and sweet (this is also why I chose it for my first full movie, because I don't want to spent 2 months on something that probably won't get much attention. Yes, I know that I did get attention for choosing this hack, but nobody has done it, and it came out in 2013.)
Me and greysondn decided on ending the input on the frame the boss falls into the lava, because that's the last input to "complete" the branch. I will post a userfile that makes the last input the save input, if that's what you want. (can be found in Author's comments.)
Also, I chose to do small mario only, because it adds an extra level of challenge onto this TAS in a way. You can't screw up even once, or you'll die.

Stage by Stage Comments

Level 1

(I know it's not called level 1 in the game, but it's name is really stupid.)
This level, was optimized, optimized, and optimized over and over again. Started with Spikestuff changing my stupid 257 from the un-optimized TAS into a 261, even though he said he absolutely sucks at SMW. Then, I turned it into a 262 with using P-Speed, improved it again into a 263 after I found out about hopping 31 (but I didn't do it right), then I took it down to a 270 (I uploaded the userfile, avalible here. After I made that, I made a 1 frame improvement for this movie. The first level wasn't too interesting at the beginning, as it was just getting P-Speed. after I got it, it got crazy.....what a second... YOU CAN TURN ENEMIES INTO COINS?!?! Well, yes, you can. It's pretty weird but awesome. What I was going for is P2 was turning all the enemies into coins (except big bills) to help P1 get through the level faster. I'm not sure if it worked out as planned, but the result is pretty awesome. As I said before, this level went through about 5 stages of optimization, going from un-optimized to extremely optimized. I think it could even be imrpoved by a couple of frames, but It's not worth re-creating the entire movie just for 2 frames of improvement. (I'll probably get hate because I said that, but 2 weeks of work is 2 weeks of work, and I don't want to re-sync the entire thing. Sorry.)
Going through the pipe is faster because you get 3F (hex) speed instead of 31 (hex) with the "hopping glitch" (that's literally what it's called on the game resources page, no joke)
This level took me ~1.5 days.

Level 2

(I'm not using the game's names for the levels, because they are dumb, and it's just better to call them what they really are.)
This level has water, and fishes and the spikey-ball things (I don't know what they are called). They are fun to play around with. Try it yourself. But, I don't do that in this TAS. I turn all the enemies into coins, because why not. It wouldn't be a TASVideos movie without some crazy a** sh*t going on.
This level doesn't have much different from the first, mostly just turning enemies into coins to get mario through faster. I also found out, you can indeed move the charging chucks. I thought you couldn't before, but more testing proved my theroys wrong. As always. Moving on.
(This level took me ~1 day)

Level 3

THERE ARE SO MANY FRICKIN' ENEMIES IN THIS LEVEL OH MY GOD
(that's a joke)
No but seriously, why are there so many enemies in this level?
Anyways, This level was the easiest to gain P-Speed and gets hopping 31 earliest out of the 5 levels. It's probably the level that can't get much more optimized. (I spent 3 frickin' days on this level just seeing the lowest frame I could get. As Spikestuff once said, "Frame timing matters, not IGT".
Not much different from the other levels. Most of it is just beating it as fast as possible. (I mean, it's a TAS, it kinda has too.)
Honestly, I don't have a lot to say, because most of the levels are the same. Except for the next level. That one was crazy.
(This level took me ~1 day)

Level 4

In this TAS, I don't become big mario before this level, so I couldn't do the clip. Instead, I just pressed L on one frame, R on the other, then just pressed "B" to jump randomly, because why not. I did this because waiting for the platform to move up or down is actually pretty boring.
This level was fun to make, mostly because of the L+R Spamming. But, It's just kind of fun to TAS.
This level took me ~2 days.

Castle

The castle wasn't that interesting. It was mostly like the other levels, but I didn't know until I made this that you can actually turn the saws into coins, aswell as the dry bones. You live you learn, I guess.
Most of the level has unskipable waiting sections, like the cave level. It's un-avoidable, but It really doesn't matter. All games have that.
In the waiting sections, I just spammed L+R for no reason, but it's a TAS.
The boss fight was made using a stratagey by greysondn. He/She helped alot in the making of this TAS, lmao.
Took me ~1.5 days.

Author's comments

This hack is actually pretty weird in the way it handles the 2nd player's input. I noticed there is a 1 frame delay from when you press the button to when the enemy actually moves.
I don't have any screenshots of this, but it's noticeable while TASing the game.
Me and greysondn were talking about when I should end the input, to which I decided it would be after the boss falls in the lava. Here's the link to the version that ends on the save input, if that's when the input should end. Why? Because the bonus levels are not needed and brain-numming to watch. Also, they are really hard to get right, kind of like Kazio levels, and I'm just a beginner, so I'm not gonna try that.
I might make a "play-around" TAS for this game (unless someone beats me to it.) because with the control of the enemies you could probably do some pretty amusing stuff, like make mario and the enemy dances to the music.

Special thanks

I would like to thank the community in the TASVideos discord for helping me along the way. To any newbies who might be reading this, join the discord. The community there is super supportive and helpful with any game you happen to be TASing. If it's a hack of a game thats been done 2030200349394 times, then they will probably point you to the game resource page for that game (thanks, people who did that, i forget your name). They are also super helpful. I got a bunch of help from the people there, especially greysondn, who took their time to make a benchmark run for this game for me (tysm btw). I'm super glad that the userfile storage place of TASVideos exists, because it's a good place for me to put my movies that are either just 1 level, a test, or not fully optimized. That's where I stored the improvements and such.
This TAS would not exist without the creator of the rom hack making this rom hack, so shoutout to them too.
The TASVideos discord community basically helped make this TAS, so shoutout to everyone who has helped me. Really means alot to me that so many people are willing to help me with something I basically just got into aprox. 2 months ago. (made a TASVideos account like 3-4 weeks ago)

Suggested screenshot

frame 5446

Closing Statement

Making this was a lot of trail and error, learning tricks, and more. I would just like to say, this is my first TAS submitted (technically not my first but my first optimized one) to the site. I would just like to say, Thanks. I want this to be my first TAS of many.
...also I forgot the pass to my fourm account, so I will probably reply in discord, not the fourm. Sorry about that, I'm a freaking idiot.
Once again, thanks!
...and good night. I need some sleep.

Masterjun: Judging.
Masterjun: There is enough very good feedback in the discussion thread, so I'll just quickly summarize. For a hack to be accepted to this site, a TAS of it needs be entertaining and show off unique content. Having a second player control enemies can make for an interesting TAS, however this isn't the case here. The levels are bland and most enemies are not used for creative purposes, but instead disappear, making this run even less entertaining.
Rejected.


TASVideoAgent
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Active player (264)
Joined: 4/15/2010
Posts: 198
Location: England
Hi. First of all great job on finishing a smw project. (Is it possible?) I have to vote no on this. My opinion of the hack is that the gimmick adds nothing of value from a TAS perspective; it's possible that P2 controlling enemies could be used for some interesting tricks, if the levels were better designed, but it seems like regular L->R levels with added functionality that makes little sense for speedruns. Some general comments (and justification for "no"): 1. Collective bonus stars is nearly always a detriment to the run. These cause lag and gain you nothing. 2. Suboptimal parts in levels, particularly in the final castle: The boss door is entered later for seemingly no reason? (It's possible there is a reason for this, I can't see it though.) 3. Hack is far too tiny for an interesting TAS, in my opinion. 4. Overall, decent execution, but I think the entertainment is nothing that can't be seen in regular smw runs - if the gimmick was more explored, I could maybe justify this. We need to be more stringent with regard to hacks, since the barrier for entry is so high. Good luck in future projects.
Retired smw-96, smw any%
Lobsterzelda
He/Him
Skilled player (1259)
Joined: 3/17/2019
Posts: 284
Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with Bahamete here and vote no. If you TAS a hack of a game, the hack is supposed to be either more complicated or longer than the original game, but this hack is much simpler and shorter than SMW (no water levels, no underground levels, missing a lot of the enemies, etc.) The overall entertainment for the run was meh. Having the enemies auto-die would have been cool for 15 seconds, but having it for the whole run makes this run seem kind of dumb, since it effectively makes this a 4 level hack of SMW where there are no enemies. However, this is much more optimized than your previous two TASes, so that's a plus.
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 804
Location: Canada
I don't see the point of this. It's a very short game which looks less difficult and less interesting that the original. A hack needs to bring something new to the table. This hack got rid of almost all of the good parts of the original. I was bored.
TASing or playing back a DOS game? Make sure your files match the archive at RGB Classic Games.
Experienced player (531)
Joined: 6/7/2017
Posts: 35
2 Players co-op hacks are always fun, however, I think this is not the case on this hack. Co-op hack should be more special and entertaining than any other hacks, it is true that entertainment is even less than the original game. But certainly, the optimization is got better than previous ones. I wish you to prepare a better project on this occasion.
Active player (378)
Joined: 9/25/2011
Posts: 652
I appreciate all the effort put into this. Unfortunately, as others have mentioned, the game just doesn't lend itself well to a TAS. A TAS is supposed to do things that are harder than humans can do, but removing 90% of the enemies by turning them into to coins makes it a much easier game. Voting 'no', but don't let that discourage you from finding a better game and TASsing that.
nymx
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Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 933
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WUT!!! The Adventures of Lolo? I thought I had clicked on the wrong video. I can see from your first submission, around 1 week ago, that you are certainly improving this run. More than a minute cut? At that rate, I wonder how far you can take it. As many people here are aware, I'm big on re-record counts (even though that has been a hot discussion lately). Around 5 times the movie length isn't bad. So you certainly are doing the work...and it seems to be a pretty decent run. However, I'm just a player of this game and not a TASer. From what I can tell, there doesn't seem to be any crazy TAS tricks going on, rather...just a very insane speedrun. @3:43 Are you aware that you can still jump from the net and grab again? This is a red flag for me on optimization. This can clearly take off seconds. Since this is an any%, I usually vote yes for optimization and crazy speed tricks, but I don't see that here. I'm voting meh, because this is just not the TAS that jumps out at me.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Memory
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Posts: 1767
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Please do not be too discouraged even if you don't get accepted here with this TAS. Even if there is not a place for publication for this hack on TASVideos, there might be some audience out there that might appreciate it and at the very least you have built up some skills working on this.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Active player (459)
Joined: 1/28/2008
Posts: 143
Location: Germany
same as the others, one can see that you put effort in the TAS and so i hope that you continue with TASing but yeah this hack doesn´t seem to give me much "wow effects" voting no for the submission
2-do: Smurfs Nightmare, The (EU) GBC 10% fin : Mega Man: Dr. Wily's Revenge improvement: submitted Mega Man II Improvement: submitted Mega Man IV Improvement: submitted Mega Man V Improvement: submitted future plan: -n-
Editor, Skilled player (1348)
Joined: 12/28/2013
Posts: 396
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Most of this was posted as a message on Discord to the author of the run, regarding possible improvements, but I should post it here too: Firstly, congratulations for your submission. It's significantly better than your previous ones, especially in the first levels. It's a sign you are improving, but there are still some mistakes you should pay attention to. At the beginning of 2nd level you walked left for many frames, which loses time. The -1 trick consists of pressing left for a single frame. I noticed you forgot to do it in some levels, like level 3. At the 4th level, I feel it's probably possible to skip a cycle if you use the enemies in your favor to jump over lava. It should save time at the end too. The pipe entry wasn't good, you lost a lot of speed on the ground for many frames. At the first room of the castle you lost a lot of time on the grid. Mario moves incredibly slowly on grids, you shouldn't touch them for more than 1 frame. It should be tested if it's possible to skip the grid entirely by spin jumping the podoboo with P-Speed. You also lost P-speed at the end of the room, which is probably avoidable. Even if it isn't, it's way better to 6/5 instead. At the second room, you could've made an enemy to move left and spin jump on it instead of waiting for the platform. There was also a lot of delay to enter the boss door. At the boss, visually it feels like it's clearly possible to hit him sooner, but I might be mistaken. Anyway, hitting the ball once definitely loses time. About minor stuff, getting bonus starts is usually a bad idea, because they cause the game to lag more often. But there is much more into ending levels optimally, like score/coin planning, manipulating Mario's subspeed, delaying goal tape end when the frame rule is bad in order to save lag, etc. I believe the most significant minor improvement you could have applied is to partially clip horizontal pipes as you enter them (like in an walljump), which shortens the animation a good amount. Corner boosting can also save some frames here and there. I believe you aren't willing to do yet another version of this run, but even if you are, this hack doesn't seem to be good or interesting enough for acceptance on TASVideos. Anyway, these points are mentioned are relevant if you want to TAS a different SMW hack in the future. Good luck with your next project.
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVoUfT49xN9TU-gDMHv57sw Projects: SMW 96 exit. SDW any%, with Amaraticando. SMA2 SMW small only Kaizo Mario World 3
Darkdevil
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Joined: 2/12/2019
Posts: 27
First off, I finally got into my forum account. Secondly,
Memory wrote:
Please do not be too discouraged even if you don't get accepted here with this TAS. Even if there is not a place for publication for this hack on TASVideos, there might be some audience out there that might appreciate it and at the very least you have built up some skills working on this.
I keep getting replies like this. Thanks for telling me not to be discouraged. I will continue to TAS games and stay active. I have school on weekdays, so I won't be responding much then (as stated before). Third, I understand that there might not be a place for this hack, and this will get rejected. I thought it would be cool to have the enemies turned into coins after I found out how to do that, but I now see that it gets kind of repetitive. Lastly, I think I can make a play-around TAS for this game, but that might take a whie to make. I think it would be cool to have something like a play-around for this game, but I'm not going to do that any time soon. Thanks everyone for helping me figure out tricks for SMW, and you guys are really helpful.
Hello! I recently got into TASing, about Dec. 2018, but never completed one until 2019-03-29. (2 Player Co-op Quest) ----------------------------------------------------- On my workbench: Nothing ATM
TASVideosGrue
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om, nom, nom... om, nom, nom... nom nom