Yes please, that would still be great.
Can you please provide the addresses? There is a lua function that flags a frame as lagged.
When I worked on training mode, I used this address: 000000 - - -> I call as "framecounter", since the input normally reads every 4 frames (0-3, then loops. but if gets another value starting with 4 = is slowdown).
Some weeks ago, I searched X position: 000468.
Both values (WRAM) are from JP version, but also works with US version.
My homepage
--Currently not much motived for TASing as before...--
But I'm still working.
Wow, ThunderAxe31 had done done successfully warp to lv 8. That's what I got before, but I can't make it after that
About don't need config X button, I don't think that, my fault. It's possible can replace it in my current, just little desync but still can fix. But I think don't need do that. Because with new glitch found, of couse it's better my run
So, should I cancel this?
Wow, ThunderAxe31 had done done successfully warp to lv 8.
Actually, MESHUGGAH was the first who managed to pull off :)
xxNKxx wrote:
That's what I got before, but I can't make it after that
Is that because the corrupted player graphics are hard to follow? I'm making a lua script that will help for that. Are there other problems?
xxNKxx wrote:
So, should I cancel this?
Not yet. We first need to comfirm that the game can be beaten. The level 8 warp could freeze later levels, who knows?
Actually, MESHUGGAH was the first who managed to pull it out :)
oops, forgot look your upper edit
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
I'm making a lua script that will help for that. Are there other problems?
If you can draw something like as line boxes around character then it'll best to do. Note: I'm feel its speed have little problem, sometimes boost up, sometimes slow down
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Not yet. We first need to comfirm that the game can be beaten. The level 8 warp could freeze later levels, who knows?
Maybe need someone help check this. I'm lazy now :D
Note: I'm feel its speed have little problem, sometimes boost up, sometimes slow down
I think the speed is always normal, except in the level 8 warp movie I've uploaded: for some reason it did generate a lot of "hidden" lag while in the first room of level 8. Probably because of the way it was corrupted (prince is made of blocks); in fact this doesn't happen if corruption is less severe.
I'm working on making another movie file anyway, for triggering the warp to level 8 optimally... Then the new TAS can be started.
OK, the glitch is really good. I played the remaining of the game with the ThunderAxe's glitch strategy and you can still beat this game and see the credits without problems aside some glitched sprites.
Also I found a true solution to avoid that "softlock": http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/49138939504341373
If you manage to beat level 8... (see one of my previous posts in this topic, since I got that same result yesterday).
EDIT: I also tested your lua script and for some reason, the lag counter resets if you load a state.
Also I now have 2 more addresses: 000508 - Player HP; 00050B - Enemy HP.
EDIT 2: We also need address for the timer overall: Minutes, seconds, and frames.
My homepage
--Currently not much motived for TASing as before...--
But I'm still working.
OK, the glitch is really good. I played the remaining of the game with the ThunderAxe's glitch strategy and you can still beat this game and see the credits without problems aside some glitched sprites.
I suppose this submission can be cancelled now.
Challenger wrote:
Great! However there is much hidden lag at the beginning of level 8. I hope to be able to adjust the glitch a little.
Challenger wrote:
EDIT: I also tested your lua script and for some reason, the lag counter resets if you load a state.
That's the intended behaviour I wanted for my script. The alternative was to let the count keeping growing even after loading savestates, which would have been confusing. Instead, by resetting it when loading a state, you're enabled to do state comparisons better. Tell me if you have a different preference.
Challenger wrote:
EDIT 2: We also need address for the timer overall: Minutes, seconds, and frames.
Right now I don't have time, I'll do it later today.
I'm not prepared to TAS SNES games but I advise the following:
* implement optimisations after figuring out warping possibilities
* debug and document warping quirks
* figure out how stage 0 warp fills in times, maybe try getting negative time
* check if we can warp multiple times
* check what other abilities we can get, maybe our player mechanics got swapped with an enemy type one
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
That's the intended behaviour I wanted for my script. The alternative was to let the count keeping growing even after loading savestates, which would have been confusing. Instead, by resetting it when loading a state, you're enabled to do state comparisons better. Tell me if you have a different preference.
Because otherwise, to follow well the value = careful frame advance or slowdown.
xxNKxx wrote:
TL;DR: Need translation because unable to replicate a glitch.
I'm unable to replicate a glitch and I'm confused because either mintlody had pure luck (~1600 rerecords!) or he was able to understand the problem and wrote down it in japanese.
I've bolded the part of the route where I have only softlocks or warps to stage 7, training and NOT respawning on the level.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
- [MENU]
- [GAME END] after running jump while bumping the wall (can lead to crash under some specific circumstances)
- [MENU]
- [GAME END] after maybe ducking and jump down? (sprites already garbled)
- [MENU]
- [GAME END] after "heavy corruption" (you look like a soldier and sometimes a skeleton), jump down
- He straight ahead respawns and probably press menu right before dying because of 0 health bug
- He checks the menu and it says level 41 95:49 and password can be seen
- He inputs the shown password to warp to level 20
- Somewhere near the end of the movie it says 36 minutes left from time and as far as I see the Prince saved the Princess
Here is the video again what Patashu linked in already: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm29365530
Here is the images from the 0:26, 0:36, 0:46 scenes:
https://imgur.com/a/tSxKnpM
I'm having trouble in replicating the events even thought I've literally remade it frame by frame so I hope there would be a text I couldn't translate using google translate on android that will solve my problem.
Fragments of translation as I understood the mechanics and mintlody's description:
- warping depends on color and behaviour (note: my assumption is that it depends on frame counter and our sprites ID right after game end)
- he wrote he just go die and respawns instantly. When I would do this, all I get is softlock if I don't do it faster than him. Adding any delays I 100% get softlock, no matter how or what I press, I get forever lag frames.
Also extra note that I don't think mintlody mentions: after doing the 2nd wrong warp, I always get back to the intro (similar as USA warp), and it seems to be an always happening thing.
edit: my latest theory of fastest TAS:
- warping to a level 0 or above 20
- get password
- input password
- kill boss
- save bitch
I'm unsure about the possibility to get the kill cheat glitch after getting the password to instakill the boss.
edit: my latest fastest WIP http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/49524221069320476 (different movements than mintlody to remove lag frames) with the first point where I could be able to progress but still don't get warped to level 41 (or forever softlocks if we remove any frame without changing action).
edit2: my latest WIP with more lag frames removed, still unable to replicate mintlody's TAS. The uploaded ones are not the frame-by-frame traslated ones (because know I think it doesn't even matter to replicate each frame input one by one because only the final action and total no lag frame count counts):
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/49547517303331911 - no corruption with mintlody's jump up
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/49547545543096629 - corruption with jumping forward
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
I'm going to edit the previous post as it's deals with mintlody miracle instant warp and translation request, while this post is my understanding of the warping.
- The 1st game end warp can be done anytime, no need to use different action, different times, Y glitch etc. It's good as it is. Didn't checked cheat glitch possbility here.
- The 2nd game end warp can be done ONLY after a specific number of non lag frames (framecount - lagframes). HOWEVER if you don't want the state we would otherwise need before 3rd game end warp, you are free to jump very early which 95% results in softlock or not activating any glitch and just retrning you to the intro (mintlody doesn't mentions this thing but it's an always happening thing when you successfully activated the glitch)
- The 3rd game end warp is very similar to the 2nd game end warping but here we have nealy 6 possible outcomes.
Outcomes I manipulated:
- stage 7
- stage 8
- training 1
- main menu freeze
- 0hp glitch
But mintlody fucking instantly respawns at level 41 with 90 minutes remaining.
Please SNES gods spare me.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
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Is it possible to avoid using the password? According to this post, there are issues with using a password that simply skips to a later level, even after having seen it, even after having visited/beaten that level.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Feos: No, with current knowledge.
Mintlody warped to level 41 and it was still the first level.
As already mentioned, the game has a bug unrelated to this that shows the level 20 password when you died and check the password in the menu when it says press a button to continue.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Why is the password required again? I don't clearly see the reasons from what I've read.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Possible speedrun paths of this game:
#0 - play the game from level 1 to end -> [3271] SNES Prince of Persia by Challenger & Odongdong in 33:31.20
#1 - without using any password, use [GAME END] glitch warping to stage 8 and finish the remaining 12~14 levels -> probably shaves off 10 minutes
#2 - Abusing a developer oversight: dying and checking the password when the text "press any button to continue" shown, the password generated will get you to level 20 with current time left, probably because it also will show level 0 when you are total dead.
That's why we can commit suicide, wait for text, press the menu button, you input password, go to boss, save bitch -> something 3 minutes overall long
#3 - we can commit suicide even faster by mintlody's miracle trick: game end 3 times with an instant 41 level reset and continue as input password, go boss, save bitch -> 1:41
So back to your question feos:
"Is it possible to avoid using the password?": Yes for the routes #0 and #1. With current knowledge, only level 8 is the highest stage to be manipulated. mintlody manipulated level 41 but it's still the first level, so it isn't progressed further.
"Why is the password required again?": To abuse the developer oversight, we can get the password to the nearly very final level of the game. Note that this isn't a "hidden cheat" or secret, I'm fairly certain about being a bug.
- using a password which is generated on the fly allows us to skip a large portion of the game.
- there are multiple password (password consists level and time left at least, many combinations) also doing these corruption glitches won't yield the exactly same password.
- the password system is a bit different between JPN and USA/EU because of different characters
The only thing I didn't mentioned in part of calculating possible end game time is the possibility of adding the cheat glitch probably found by xxNKxx, so we can kill boss faster (if applicable)
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
Joined: 4/17/2010
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I think you should submit #1 and it has the highest chance of being accepted as a legitimate improvement over NK's submission. In the thread for this potential submission we could discuss whether this password corruption route can serve as a demonstration category for Moons. Like [2059] SNES Mega Man X "password glitch" by FractalFusion in 16:56.88 did.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Possible speedrun paths of this game:
#0 - play the game from level 1 to end -> [3271] SNES Prince of Persia by Challenger & Odongdong in 33:31.20
#1 - without using any password, use [GAME END] glitch warping to stage 8 and finish the remaining 12~14 levels -> probably shaves off 10 minutes
I have found some pieces to the puzzle. You guys should be able to verify these statements easily, and figure out some things I haven't been able to solve.
Shocker: I have warped to level 12 once, and it was stable.
So, the beginning of my experimentation was not to save time, but to get a better understanding of the glitch. I should preface by saying that I'm not a TASer, and I have no technical knowledge of the game. I had some free time for Christmas break, and have only been messing around on my US Super Nintendo Console.
Besides the first room, which can send you to levels 7 or 8, there are three other rooms in level 1 that have a readily apparent impact on the game. I have used combinations of the second room and the first room to make a stable warp to levels 7 or 8 with no freezing or level corruption. (usually, I'll drop from the left side of the hole 2 times in the second room; first time, level 1 resets; second time, bumped out to main menu.) I've tried many combinations of this, as the second room seems to provide a buffer, with the right number of times, to prevent crashes.
After going to the bottom, and heading left (away from the final guard), the next room with spikes has a loose panel overhead. I've tried going up (another guard) and falling back down this hole on both sides, but I haven't been able to confirm whether this does anything. It seems likely not, although sometimes it will reset to main menu, followed by excessive temporary lag upon returning to level 1; in other cases, this hole has caused a crash.
Continuing to the left, there is another room with a pit, and a loose panel overhead. Going up through this loose panel to the room with the skeleton & potion, I drop back down this hole, and have observed a variety of interesting glitches. Depending upon how many times I've buffered drops from the second room, and whether I climb down the left side of the hole, or jump down the right side of the hole, a number of different combinations of sprite (animation) scrambling have been observed. I have also on several occasions used this hole to flip all menu text upside down, including pop-up windows, time window, info windows, and main menu. In some cases, it will only flip all letters and numbers, still kept in their original places. Other times, the lines are flipped also.
Continuing to the left, there is a room with 3 loose panels (two for the little bridge, and one at bottom, leading to a small room with a potion). When I go down the hole at the bottom, you will notice the lower room flip upside down prior to the game resetting. Depending on dropping from left, or jumping down right, other strange sprite corruption takes place. If the correct number of buffers is not observed, the game will crash. On several occasions, this hole flipped the menu letters. And on 2 occasions I've been warped to level 12.
When you notice that the sound effects have been altered, or become silent, this is a telltale sign that the glitch is unstable, and a freeze will take place soon (indeterminate amount of time -- sometimes triggered by random activity, like stepping on a door panel). One of my level 12 warps was unstable, and the other was stable -- the stable warp allowed me to play the rest of the game without any problems, and I beat the game with the "two dudes" in the princess' bedroom.
My new favorite is the sprite corruption jumping to the right side of the hole in this last room; the prince runs around with half an arm sticking out, and becomes a guard or skeleton when sliding or crouching. I love this set because all enemy guards are Princes walking around with bottles in their hands, drinking fiercely as they approach you, and taking a long drink after they die. The woman is the Blue Horse from the Japanese publishers intro, even though that logo is not available in my US version! The 6-armed man is a special sprite of one of the Guards whipping and beating the Prince in the dungeon (both bodies together for one sprite). It's amazing that this sprite is in the US version, even though that part of the game introduction was cut out for being too violent for the American audience. Every time the 6-armed man stops to wiggle his head, the corrupted sprite shows the guard giving the prince a sound thrashing! At the end, Jafar is a blue 6-armed man, and when the prince goes to the Princess's bedroom, the princess becomes a crumpled beheaded prince, with the severed head bouncing on the floor several feet away. (In another pattern, the Prince himself is temporarily beheaded during the Jafar fight when standing up from a magic fall.) I'm curious to know if anyone is able to do sprite extraction to put together all the pieces of the beheading, which was apparently never used in the game.
I've seen another sprite corruption where the Prince is slouched over as he runs, and in the level 13 and level 14 cut scenes, the mouse becomes the sprite of the two guards carrying the Prince away from the Princess in the garden.
Anyway, my point is, between the 5 different lively holes in the first level, there is a lot of interaction going on. Various combinations continue to scramble the numbers on the "best times" screen. Various combinations prevent hard freezes, reveal a wealth of different sprite corruption patterns, and there may be more level warps that we don't know about.
Unfortunately, I've only been able to activate the level 12 warp 2 times, and I've not been able to remember exactly what I did, which is frustrating. I've been documenting several of the combinations of room drops now, so I don't forget. But the level 12 warp and the Slouching Prince have been eluding me for a couple of days now.
I believe some of you TASers may be in a much better position, as far as time goes, to quickly plow through the further implications of these combinations, and observe what's going on, and figure out how to do the level 12 warp, and perhaps others.
Finally, I'd like to state my personal opinion that copying a level 20 password is horrendously illegitimate for the purposes of speedrunning. Literally anyone on planet earth can grab a level 20 password and put it in. Combining that with the instant kill glitch, I'm sure you could run to Jafar and kill him in much less than 1:41 total.
I'd like to add a request. If someone is going to submit an official video that includes the KILL button, please use the KILL button during the "memories" scenes before the credits, for entertainment value.
If you KILL the guard in the Level 13 scene immediately after the Prince has drawn his sword, he will put it away and get sliced by the Chomper Blade at the end of the conveyor belt.
If you KILL the ghost in the Level 15 scene after the Prince stops running, both will die, and trigger the FRAME sooner. If you KILL the ghost at the very beginning, the Prince will die, but will be stuck in the running position. Being dead, he will run through the closed gate, and into the hallway, finally triggering the FRAME when the Stellar Door is visible.
I have noticed some variations on the level 8 warp. Sometimes I arrive at level 8 with 3 health bottles, the same as I had when I began level 1. Other times, I will arrive at level 8 with 7 health bottles. I haven't confirmed the exact differences in my performance yet, but that's something to look at for sure. It would be interesting if someone could combine the level 12 warp with a sudden increase in health.
I have also noticed that several room drops will scramble my input buttons, requiring me to go to the "Options" window to reconfigure my buttons. Sometimes, it also changes the audio from Stereo to Mono, or change the "repeat" option. When the KILL glitch is activated and available, sometimes the button scrambling will cause it to not be selected anymore, but it's still available when I go to fix my buttons.
I suspect that continuing to drop through holes in a particular pattern could be similar to rewriting code in the memory, like in Super Mario World when they trigger the End Credits via a number of on-screen sprite positions & item glitches.
Well, LOL, I found another warp. This time to level 4. Not very helpful! But at least it confirms that there are multiple warps possible from the other room, depending upon conditions.
Now, hopefully we can find a warp to level 16, and bust things wide open!
Great to hear about these warp things, since I haven't much knownledge with certain things! Also it's been a while since the last time I've touched this game.
Once managing, would be useful a movie file for check it.
My homepage
--Currently not much motived for TASing as before...--
But I'm still working.
Great to hear about these warp things, since I haven't much knownledge with certain things! Also it's been a while since the last time I've touched this game.
Once managing, would be useful a movie file for check it.
I've been capturing some short videos of the TV using my phone. I may try to put some of them on youtube in the near future. I'm not too familiar with the process of creating emulator videos or video submissions to this website. But a warning: video evidence is not very helpful here. You could see in MESHUGGAH's post earlier, even though he tried to replicate the Japanese Video frame by frame, he could not get it to behave exactly the same. This is because EVERYTHING has an impact on these combinations, including things which happened before the video started, even before an earlier freeze. The only way to confirm a pattern for sure is to do a HARD power reset and clear all memory. I would guess that if the Japanese video cannot be replicated exactly, he did something else before the video started, to cause a slight change. I think the best evidence here is trial & error by TAS machine, which will be exactly the same every time, and then document the different combinations.
Another update: I found an interesting combination of sprite animation corruptions, where the Prince is the Sword (which lies upon the ground in Level 1), when in his standing position, and his running position. In other positions, he takes the forms of various guards and skeleton. The point of interest here is the Sword. The game allows the HIT BOX to roughly match the size and position of the Sword, which means I can run under a GATE when it has almost completely closed.
I could see a benefit here for level 11, when trying to hurry under the gate near the end. Also of benefit at many places throughout the game when you are waiting for the gate to rise before you can continue.
