Understandable. We've been at this for quite a while now and I'm getting a little tired of making 2 players tases myself. At least there isn't much left.
Evil_3D wrote:
There are some minor errors in the game wich can be confused with heavy glitches.
In a glitchless run we need to ban the most heavy breaking game glitches as:
Horizontal Underflow
Zips
Slope glitch / Switch gravity glitch / Carry glitch
Screen warp
Wheel glitch (CNZ)
Don't abuse of the sky boundary error ( you can skip big portions of some level with this)
Don't clip surfaces (Stair clips and glide clip as Knux)
For me take advantage of frame rules, luck manipulation and little tricks to save time it's ok as long as they respect the rules above.
I'm okay with those conditions. I was just saying you should also avoid weird interactions like floating in midair during the LBZ1 Knuckles cutscene to avoid controversy.
Nice job on the glitchless run. Are you planning on make a full run out of this?
Yes, probably I will start to work with Sonic alone, Knuckles or even Tails (most probably with Sonic) because I'm a little exhaust with 2 players.
I feel like a selfish asshole even going in to this... But whatever.
Sonic 3 glitchless as Sonic+Tails has been my dream from this site ever since I discovered it through sprint gods TAS's back in the day.
I understand that requesting such a thing is quite a feat
But both you and Kann have done ring attacks! And seemingly mastered the 2play controls!
That shits crazy!
I just feel like you're the people that are the dream I hoped to make the video we all want to see...
To be succinct, I feel like a single player sonic TAS glichless is essentially a TAS that will give blue balls.
But Im not a complete idiot; Im sure 2 player tas'ing is a pain in the ass; I get it
I wish you luck in what ever direction you go in.
Before start another big project like a S+T glitchless I will prefer to chose Knuckles in first instance because his history is short and will see how the audience responds to these types of movies.
But don't worry, the only thing I need is time, a lot of time, I will not end here, I have a lot to show in the next years.
I feel like a selfish asshole even going in to this... But whatever.
Sonic 3 glitchless as Sonic+Tails has been my dream from this site ever since I discovered it through sprint gods TAS's back in the day.
I understand that requesting such a thing is quite a feat
But both you and Kann have done ring attacks! And seemingly mastered the 2play controls!
That shits crazy!
I just feel like you're the people that are the dream I hoped to make the video we all want to see...
To be succinct, I feel like a single player sonic TAS glichless is essentially a TAS that will give blue balls.
But Im not a complete idiot; Im sure 2 player tas'ing is a pain in the ass; I get it
I wish you luck in what ever direction you go in.
Don't feel bad. Simply requesting for us to make the S+T glitchless tas is okay as long as you aren't forcing us to do it. We will get around to it eventually. It's just that we've been at this ring attack for about a year now and making 2 player runs do indeed take quite a bit more effort than 1 player runs. Both of us will need a break from making them by the time we're done with this ring attack. This certainly won't be the last 2 player run we'll make though.
I've looked through some of the early levels (mainly MGZ-ICZ) to see if I can spot any major improvements. They look more than okay to me. It's almost as if Evil's skill level suddenly shot up when he started tasing MGZ.
I am however planning on redoing ICZ2. I wanna attempt to get the music back for the 2nd half of the level using the invincibility monitor without losing any time and I think I found a good route that'll allow me to do just that. Plus I spotted a few potential improvements.
Also here's some info that might be helpful for you in the future. You see that Tails respawn delay timer? You can cancel out of it at any time by pressing A, B or C. That's how I've been able to manipulate some of Tails' respawn positions in my recent tases.
About the previous levels there are some sloppy places in CNZ1: Knuckles area there are some of them wich are easy to spot with frame advance, mostly when I backtrack to Sonic's path. But on my eyes in general all levels are improvable. The problem is that if we try to master the ring attack, we will never finish it since it is currently impossible for us (even the any% runs aren't masterized yet), therefore the rest of the levels are fine for me.
But I really want to fix 2 things in the movie1. In ICZ2 It will be very cool if you find a way to return the music back, because the level look a little "empty" for me without music
2. In LBZ1 I really wish to do another try to manage to avoid the infinite invul music, but we have to redo the entire LBZ because If we save time the platforms will desync even if we use the bonus stage in the 2nd ACT (if we divide the work on redo it will be easier)
We don't really have to master the ring attack. If you really want to fix some more of the early levels (mainly MGZ-ICZ), what we could do is redo them once just to clean them up and then be done with them for good. I'm fine with leaving any imperfections we may notice later on.
I am gonna for sure redo ICZ2 though because it does feel kinda empty for me as well. Here's the new route I came up with. I'd have to test it in the run to know for sure if it's good or not, but it does have potential to be faster than the current route, and it does allow us to get the music back pretty early on.
ICZ2 route
And yeah let's try to fix LBZ1 one more time. At least the music problem here isn't as bad as ICZ2 since this one can be remedied with the Sonic hud.
The route looks fine, but I need warn you with the begining, If Sonic got underwater directly to the giant ring you will be stuck in the next loops where the ice wall blocks Knuckles area because the loop above the giant ring changes the path switchers to change the solidity in the next loops.
I had this problem in the early days doing ICZ2
The route looks fine, but I need warn you with the begining, If Sonic got underwater directly to the giant ring you will be stuck in the next loops where the ice wall blocks Knuckles area because the loop above the giant ring changes the path switchers to change the solidity in the next loops.
I had this problem in the early days doing ICZ2
Interesting. I've never seen that happen before. I even tested it just now ago and the loop didn't block my path. It might've been a weird pathswapper interaction with Tails. I'll have to see what happens in the run.
Also I think we may be able to fix the music in LBZ1 just by saving time. You know that area below the 2nd big ring. I think it's totally unnecessary for Sonic to go down there because Tails could very easily collect those 7 rings by himself. Plus I spotted other mimor improvements in that area.
I fixed the MGZ capsule and added the rest of the inputs. Just like always CNZ and ICZ successfully resync'd. At this point I don't think those 2 zones can desync. I'm not complaining.
I redid the last 30ish seconds of ICZ1 (everything after frame 117400) because the sloppiness there was very noticeable in real time. I improved it by 4 seconds.
gmv
Interesting. I've never seen that happen before. I even tested it just now ago and the loop didn't block my path. It might've been a weird pathswapper interaction with Tails. I'll have to see what happens in the run.
You tested in the movie or only loading the stage in the level select? Btw It was 1 year ago, maybe I overloocked a small detail.
kaan55 wrote:
Also I think we may be able to fix the music in LBZ1 just by saving time. You know that area below the 2nd big ring. I think it's totally unnecessary for Sonic to go down there because Tails could very easily collect those 7 rings by himself. Plus I spotted other mimor improvements in that area.
Sounds a good idea and we need to test it, but finish ICZ2 first.
Edit: Oh lol the reply times, I laughed so hard here - I'm watching
Oh lol only a minute off.
I tested the loop from the movie. I never had the solidity problem from playing casually either. I guess you did something weird to make that loop solid.
Oh lol only a minute off.
I tested the loop from the movie. I never had the solidity problem from playing casually either. I guess you did something weird to make that loop solid.
Oh, well is better for us :P
But don't kill Tails at the end because you will can't controll him in the next level and it will not respawn either
I really hope to see if you can do the first part of ICZ 2 in less than 0:59'59 ( the old time was 1:10, not so far ) just for fun/playaround and overcharge the scoreboard, we don't really need to aim for pure speed if there is a possibility to do some entertaiment trade/offs.
But I guess you will can save more than 10 secs with your new route.
I'll definitely get less than a minute. The new route pretty much requires me to make a beeline for the miniboss. I wanna overcharge the scoreboard too. I wonder what score we'll end up with when we're done.
I think I figured out what your loop problem was. Tails can't get the 5 rings in the loop above the big ring because the loop is solid. I guess you were thinking of the wrong loop. I should still be able to improve this part though.
upd: Found the pathswapper. Apparently you have to be on the ground for it to work which is kinda dumb. That must've been the issue you were having.
upd2: Problem solved. I was able to split Sonic and Tails into the upper and lower areas without screwing up loop solidity.
I think I figured out what your loop problem was. Tails can't get the 5 rings in the loop above the big ring because the loop is solid. I guess you were thinking of the wrong loop.
Trust me, I was talking about this loop.
kaan55 wrote:
upd: Found the pathswapper. Apparently you have to be on the GROUND for it to work which is kinda dumb. That must've been the issue you were having.
Oh, now I understand, when I got with Sonic underwater I jumped in the first frame available inside the ice cave to fall quickly on the water, I think this is the reason I missed this path switch, but I'm glad to hear you fixed it.
Oh no yeah I knew you were talking about the right loop when I figured out what was really going on with the pathswapper. I meant to delete that statement when I edited the comment since it was no longer relavent.
Guys, I was testing some things with Knuckles and I found an level warp in HCZ1 but it ends in a death/drown.
Link to video
I was able to put Knuckles in this position. v
In this heigh is possible to setup the level warp for Knuckles but there is a problem: the spring, he kill me always when I try to pass trough him, even looking down with the camera, the spikes deloads, but the spring is still here, I think if someone founds a way to ignore the spring succesfully the level warp is possible.
Or if there is a way to ignore the weird death on the another level warp?
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1697
Location: RU · ID · AM
I remember doing a successful level-wrap in some other way, can’t tell you exactly.
The problem is that level-wrap is absolutely useless for Knuckles in this level, because you’ll not be able to take proper Y position quickly enough.
Don’t waste your time, you’ll not be able to beat the level sucessfully if you succeed at level-wrap. :)
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Here's ICZ2, now with music. The new route ended up being faster even with the improvements improvements. This was actually kind of a challenging level for me to tas.
I calculated the time as if the timer never froze from killing the miniboss. We got 2:57::26 (give or take a frame). I believe the old time was around 3:27. I did not expect to improve this level by that much.
gmv
Now to fix the music on LBZ1. Do you wanna do that or should I?
WST wrote:
I remember doing a successful level-wrap in some other way, can’t tell you exactly.
The problem is that level-wrap is absolutely useless for Knuckles in this level, because you’ll not be able to take proper Y position quickly enough.
Don’t waste your time, you’ll not be able to beat the level sucessfully if you succeed at level-wrap. :)
Well from what I can tell the only thing that's keeping us from succeeding at this is not being able to level wrap from a high enough position.
I can't describe how amazed I am with the new ICZ 2, wonderful work friend, the way you handled and coordinate S and T is insane, even I can say you are better than me now.
About LBZ, you can fix the music if you want, we can divide the work and do 50% of the levels everyone too, if you are tired.
Am I really that good? I mean I never thought I'd be able to surpass your skills. Thanks man :D
Evil_3D wrote:
About LBZ, you can fix the music if you want, we can divide the work and do 50% of the levels everyone too, if you are tired.
Yeah let's divide the work and fix the music in LBZ1. How about you do Act 1 and I do Act 2? ICZ2 did in fact wear me out and I need a break before I can continue. I am willing to help you if you didn't succeed at fixing the music though.
Also if you remember my testrun for LBZ2 was my very first tas. I wanna be the one to redo it to really gauge how much I've improved since I started.
Am I really that good? I mean I never thought I'd be able to surpass your skills. Thanks man :D
Yes, you improved a lot this year, you are less lazy than me and you have a faster pace, I hate to redo levels (mostly in the ring attack), trying to synchronize and even open gens at times :-P - But I take my time to optimize my levels
kaan666 wrote:
How about you do Act 1 and I do Act 2? ICZ2 did in fact wear me out and I need a break before I can continue.
Okidoki.
kaan666 wrote:
Also if you remember my testrun for LBZ2 was my very first tas. I wanna be the one to redo it to really gauge how much I've improved since I started.
Yeah, I remember that garbage (?) run, I'm pretty sure you will improve it alot now because there are some obvious mystakes in frame advance/realtime.
On another topic
I started a new project, Knuckles glitchless, this is the first wip.
Link to video
For avoid a wall of text the explanations + gmv are in userfiles
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/46659538698090573
Loving that glitchless! I always felt like SprintGod's first run should never have been obsoleted, cause the second one abused vertical screen wrapping, and then nitsuja came along and straight-up murdered the game.
I'm loving this ring attack. I am consistently surprised at the amount of time saved with each new iteration. Seeing you find improvements of 30 seconds in HC2 and IC2 is really surprising. I know it's a very tough balance between optimizing as much as possible, and knowing when to move on to the next level in order to ever make long-term progress, but it seems like just about every level is being tightened up quite a bit by this point. It's impressive!
Looking at the ring totals from Sonic Zone 0 across what's been done so far (up to Lava Reef 2) and comparing with the Knuckles ring attack where applicable, you've gotten every available ring except for the ones in AI2 below the "death line" and 10 in LB1 due to mutually exclusive boss ring monitors. But! You've also picked up an extra ring in FB2. I'm wondering how you found out about this one ring. Is there some kind of map-searching utility or part of the LUA script which scrapes level data for the total number of rings? Is it possible there are other goofy hidden wall rings that aren't known about yet like this one?
Anyway, thanks for keeping on with this run. It's been a joy to watch.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Also here's some info that might be helpful for you in the future. You see that Tails respawn delay timer? You can cancel out of it at any time by pressing A, B or C. That's how I've been able to manipulate some of Tails' respawn positions in my recent tases.
upd2: Problem solved. I was able to split Sonic and Tails into the upper and lower areas without screwing up loop solidity.
In this heigh is possible to setup the level warp for Knuckles but there is a problem: the spring, he kill me always when I try to pass trough him, even looking down with the camera, the spikes deloads, but the spring is still here, I think if someone founds a way to ignore the spring succesfully the level warp is possible.
Or if there is a way to ignore the weird death on the another level warp?
