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Important: GDQ event planning is now taking place completely in the open, including any potential payload discussions. If you do not want to know what is being planned, do not read this thread. Additional planning discussion can also be found in the #tasbot IRC channel on Freenode as well as the TASBot Discord.
SGDQ submissions begin on March 2nd and run only until March 11th, 2018. The guide for submissions is located at: https://gamesdonequick.com/submission-guide
For SGDQ 2018 I'm again deliberately planning on keeping things simple. In general the summer events by necessity should be less technical and time-consuming in nature. To that end, things on this list of ideas are all ideas that require little to no work on hardware or console verification and focus more on showing what a TAS is and what's possible in with TAS tools through good commentary. If the entertainment and commentary are of high enough caliber I'm still open to use runs that aren't strictly console verified.
- All the content from the results of the poll at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hRoK7nNBNU4MdEI0e7zMcGVnkp5D9AfikLjHOpjUOfw (which I broke down in this thread)
- [2539] NES River City Ransom "2 players" by Chamale in 05:56.76 but [1013] NES River City Ransom "Playaround" by adelikat & JXQ in 12:55.38 could be fun as well - suggested by boct1584
- [717] NES Monopoly "4 CPUs" by FractalFusion in 01:07.67 - also suggested by boct1584 (he had a lot of good suggestions); would require rapid commentary and yelling "Time!" very early
- 3D console ACE leading to demoscene style content; would require someone to create said content, but I think we might have a lead on an N64 total control (shh...)
(added 2016-08-19) Twitch Plays Super Scribblenauts (pitching for the third or forth time)
OK, OK, I admit this hasn't quite worked out the last two times (the first time I voluntarily allowed it to be cut form AGDQ 2016 when there wasn't enough time left on the schedule and the second time they opted to go with VVVVVV instead, but I digress). I also admit that there's a great deal of confusion over what may be possible here.
(added 2016-08-21) Tetris Grand Master or similar playaround
Several of us have discussed this, including DeHackEd, boct1584, and myself. The Tetris blocks at GDQ events have been big hits but have been absent the last few events. There may be a TAS entry point here.
Please post your own suggestions in the thread below. Thanks!
I was thinking about showing one of the work from DevilSquirrel who has made TAS tools for some recent PC games using code injection and a friendly TAS editor, as can been seen in this stream on Celeste. He has made TASes of several categories of Kalimba and Ori and the Blind Forest, and he is in the middle of doing Celeste (see his youtube account).
The input replays are perfectly stable, and the interface shows inputs as well as ram watch values for speed and position etc.
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What keylie said.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Game-specific rerecording frameworks on PC? I agree that'd be awesome if DevilSquirrel is willing to let us present his work or would be amenable to going to SGDQ to help present.
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Thanks for the suggestion. I'll reach out to DevilSquirrel and see what happens. I like the idea.
Meanwhile, I hope to submit 5 different things and see what the response is. Kennyman is making a strong case for F-Zero X. There were a few other suggestions from IRC including [3153] NES Shadow of the Ninja (Japan) "1 player" by TASeditor in 09:30.41 and even [3623] Coleco B.C.'s Quest for Tires by MESHUGGAH in 01:40.45 but that latter one would be hard to get console verification for in time and I'm not sure the setup time to entertainment value is quite right. I've ordered an Everdrive and I hope to use it to do some tests on what can be console verified.
Keep the ideas coming and thanks for the suggestions so far!
[1686] NES Mega Man by Shinryuu & finalfighter in 12:23.34
NESHawk and Mesen agree that a slightly modified version of this run should work on console. I think this run would provide a lot of interesting commentary about how NES works, what the NMI glitch is, and how TASers exploited it. It's the same basic glitch throughout the run, so 12 minutes should be more then enough to cover things at a reasonable pace. You could even explain the basic idea with some visuals or something fun.
This might be more technical risk then you want though. If you are intereseted, you might to have TASbot run through this file up to the first glitch in Ice Man stage. If it can hit the glitch consistently (which both BizHawk and Mesen do, so it should be fairly stable) maybe it's consistent enough for the event. It still needs to be re-synced to BizHawk though.
(you can truncate the movie to right after the delaywatercurrent glitch, it's only synced to there)
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/44988607938034213
Also, I can help with anything NES or BizHawk related if it's needed.
Also I like keylie's idea, that sounds cool.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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So keylie, good news. Your wish has been granted.
Last night on my stream at http://twitch.tv/dwangoAC I paid for Celeste on Steam and got help from DevilSquirrel to run through the entire Celeste TAS on stream up through the 5th segment. I am super happy for your suggestion and it's exactly why I ask as I never would have known about that if you hadn't said something. This is likely going to be the star centerpiece of whatever we do for SGDQ 2018.
Keep the suggestions coming. We've already done Mega Man (twice!) so I don't think it would be wise to pitch it a third time but I appreciate the thought around it. If there's another suitable game please let me know.
I just got notification my Analogue Super NT is on its way! Serious thanks to itsagyger for helping to offset the costs (http://donate.TASBot.net if you want to help with equipment costs but this isn't a hard ask). I've already had initial discussions on its admissibility. The full submissions committee at GDQ will have to make a decision but the winds seem to be favoring allowing it on account that it is likely to help resolve clock issues and it is as faithful as possible to the original hardware.
Thanks for the discussion!
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Celeste TAS is verified and is definitely something I'm submitting - hardcore thanks to DevilSquirrel and KDT who made it and TGH who helped provide commentary on my stream yesterday. Need to make a highlight out of my VOD from last night.
I have an Analogue Super NT arriving tomorrow! I'm super excited. Word from the submission committee is that it may be admissible given that it resolves non-deterministic behavior between the main clock and the sound clock, or at least it may do so in theory. We won't know until we try it. If it works, Super Metroid any% maybe? :)
I have copies of F-Zero X and F-Zero GX coming. Yes, both. Cost about $47 between the two but they will be here Wednesday.
I had car trouble which kept me away from a computer on Saturday and I was unable to register during the first window of SGDQ 2018 registration which filled up *very* fast. I'll get in on the next round.
I'll be submitting games one at a time starting probably tomorrow. More to come on some of the other suggestions in this thread so far.
The new Super Metroid any% is a great example of what TASing is like, given how clearly different it is from a realtime run.
I fear that the second GDQ registration window will fill up just as fast. Do the GDQ people have any special mechanism to make sure that runners (TAS commentators, in this case) get in?
Runners and volunteers get both guaranteed registration and free registration. Commentators (people that didn't make the submission) do not.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Memory wrote:
Runners and volunteers get both guaranteed registration and free registration. Commentators (people that didn't make the submission) do not.
Not quite. Runners *do* get free registration for accepted, bonus, and backup runner status. However, registration must be completed and paid for; once the submissions process is complete the registration is refunded. Volunteering goes through a separate process that is similar but because they are volunteers they are not subject to the cap.
There is no special treatment for me or any other runner. I will have to catch the registration window (and the hotel reservation window) just like everyone else. I may have at this point been involved in more runs than pretty much anyone else I know but that doesn't mean I'm special. :)
We'll be OK one way or another. Competent people have already registered successfully to take my place should anything happen.
No, you will not. As a runner, you will be able to register once your run is accepted, you will not have to register before then. This is how it has always worked. I just got a confirmation on this in the GDQ discord from an admin.
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Habreno wrote:
No, you will not. As a runner, you will be able to register once your run is accepted, you will not have to register before then. This is how it has always worked. I just got a confirmation on this in the GDQ discord from an admin.
I stand corrected. The page now reads: "Runners with a submission that is Accepted, on Backup, or a Bonus run will have their registration fee waived. However, runners must register by April 11th at 11:59PM PDT, or they will be dropped from the schedule. If the cap has been reached, selected runners will be given an additional opportunity to complete their registrations here once the games list has been released, announcing their selection."
Good to know. I won't be able to start submissions until tomorrow so we'll see what happens.
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TL;DR: Celeste, Item Abuse 3 (SMW Kaizo-like), and Super Metroid 0% / (game end glitch) are a lock for SGDQ 2018, looking at F-Zero X or F-Zero GX, need a suggestion for one more game.
Celeste has a highlight video thanks to help from numbers (the awesome guy who uses random numbers on every service, _7296879 on Discord). I'm totally submitting this, it's too awesome not to.
Link to video
My most recent stream included some really awesome surprises that led me to unilaterally declare we're submitting them. I'm not a dictator here but seriously, Item Abuse 3 by Panga playing back on console was absolutely amazing. I hope to have a highlight video ASAP. Equally impressive is what total did with [3628] SNES Super Metroid "game end glitch" by Sniq in 07:05.83 - thanks to efforts by total, it now syncs the majority of the time with further improvements expected. I've also acquired an Analogue Super NT thanks to itsaguyger and may be able to get that working as well if we can get some support for some needed changes from Kevtris including changes to button combinations that are allowed.
That leaves two spots, and I expected to be able to test F-Zero X and F-Zero GX yesterday but my Amazon shipment was mysteriously sent to the wrong sorting facility and subsequently returned to Amazon. I don't think I'd want to submit both of them (and I'm not yet sure if I can get either of them working) so that will leave at least one more spot. Given the rest of what we have on deck I'm looking for suggestions for what else you may want to see. Did I ignore a suggestion you made earlier in this thread or not give it due consideration? Remind me to take another look. Did you just now see this thread and you have an idea? Get it in fast, we have to submit within the next couple of days.
Speaking of submitting, I intended to do the submission for Celeste tonight but I'm so exhausted from real life issues that I think it best to do so tomorrow. We have through the 10th (really, the 11th, but let's pretend we don't have that day). I'll be doing them one at a time starting in the order I mentioned them above.
Thanks for everything, especially my Twitch supporters!
New post because new content: I redownloaded Hyper Princess Pitch 1.3 from this (unofficial) mirror and was able to sync it on my Windows 10 x64 laptop using Hourglass r81, after Windows installed the DirectPlay component.
Here are my sync settings: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mrikn3d6bfh11jo/Screenshot%202018-03-10%2008.16.28.png?dl=0
Windows Defender didn't throw a fit about viruses or anything from the mirror, so I would guess it's okay.
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I've been running low on sleep this week trying to solidify GDQ submissions and I need help with the pitch text. For Celeste, I need someone to describe how the run is different than the realtime runs and note that commentary will be provided. For Super Metroid, I need someone to make a pitch for why it's a unique way to end the game and hype it up. For Item Abuse 3, I need someone to write a description of how it's a game designed ot be a challenge not for a human runner but for someone using TAS tools.
boct1584 wrote:
New post because new content: I redownloaded Hyper Princess Pitch 1.3 from this (unofficial) mirror and was able to sync it on my Windows 10 x64 laptop using Hourglass r81, after Windows installed the DirectPlay component.
I'm willing to give it a shot bu I'll have to use that run's submission video as the pitch video as I won't have time to gt a Windows environment set up with those requriements. Just like Item Abuse 3, I think the best choice is for someone to write up a submission pitch that describes how this was never intended to be completable. ...did we submit this game once already> I forgot. Anyway, this can make it in.
I have F-Zero X now. F-Zero GX shows up later today. I'll be streaming tests with them to see how they behave and if we can get anywhere with them and I'll report back. Of the two, I have more confidence in GX.
Last night on stream I showed that the Super Analogue NT currently polls the controller even on frames where there are lag frames in the game. In other words, on a real Super Nintendo there would be no latch present during lag frames because the console would be too busy to ask the controller for input. On the Super NT it's almost always polling the controller even when the game wouldn't; it does this so it can detect the in-game menu and reset hotbutton sequences, which themselves are also a problem because they are likely to interfere with some of the more esoteric ACE payloads we've built.
Having said that, the Super Metroid sync-stable game end glitch run did play back on the Super NT, likely because of how generous it is with extra frames and buffered input to align Samus to a known location before continuing forward. It reminds me of what we had to do for Pokemon Red a bit too much. :)
So, if you can, please help with submission descriptions. It's been a very hard week for me in real life from a stress perspective and I could really use the help. Thanks.
Here's my attempt at a description for Super Metroid:
Super Metroid was again delivered to TASVideos so the scientists could study its frame-saving qualities... The scientists' findings were astounding! They discovered that the powers of moonfall and ACE might be harnessed for 0% item collection! Frames saved: Many. Animals saved: 0.
Length is 281 characters. Yes, it was intentionally based on the intro text. No, I don't know much about the game. I'm assuming that the animals weren't saved.
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Dacicus wrote:
Here's my attempt at a description for Super Metroid:
Super Metroid was again delivered to TASVideos so the scientists could study its frame-saving qualities... The scientists' findings were astounding! They discovered that the powers of moonfall and ACE might be harnessed for 0% item collection! Frames saved: Many. Animals saved: 0.
Very yes! I'll adapt it to note commentary but otherwise this is very creative. Thanks for doing this.
Animals are audible in the background but we appear to leave them down there. They are kind of haunting. We'll just save the frames instead.
Anyone up to do Princess Pitch, Item Abuse 3, or Celeste?
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Link to videoLink to video
I need a volunteer to collect all of the TAS content submissions for SGDQ 2018 and put all of the submission text in one place so I can enter it before the deadline tonight. The plan is to submit Celeste, Super Metroid 0% (game end glitch), Item Abuse 3, F-Zero GX, and Hyper Princess Pitch. Can you help? Please take the description from SM two posts up and throw it into a doc or shared text location or just a forum post here, I don't care how it happens. Feel free to divvy up work however you like but I need the help or I won't finish today.
Thanks and sorry for the urgency, I put in 15+ hours of work on all this yesterday trying to finalize Super Metroid and F-Zero and I still have more work ahead. I'd feel awful if we missed the deadline.
Here's my submission text for Hyper Princess Pitch.
Daniel Remar likes making freeware games. Most of them include an impossibly hard joke difficulty, "ReallyJoel's Dad," named for a meme involving one of his collaborators/playtesters. In his game Hyper Princess Pitch, which he likens to the DOS classic Operation: Carnage, this difficulty is instead called "ReallyJoel's Mom" and it multiplies enemy spawn rates by at least an order of magnitude, removes all power-ups, dramatically increases the firing rate of enemies that shoot, and allows more enemies to shoot. A real-time player would be lucky to clear one room of this. But thanks to tool-assisted precision, Tseralith clears the whole game without even taking damage!
