Looking great Evil3d!
It's probably a basic trick for you guys at this point, but wasn't aware of that move to keep your Bubble Shield when bouncing on spikes.
Here is how the rising floor in MGZ2 works:
Collision with the background is initially disabled. When the player's Y coordinate is between $80 and $180, you enter and leave Knuckles' rising floor section through X coordinate $3800, making the floor solid as long as the player is not above Y coordinate $100 and to the right of X coordinate $3C00. Similarly, when the player's Y coordinate is between $800 and $900, you enter and leave Sonic's rising floor section through X coordinate $34C0. When the player's Y coordinate is less than $800 and the X coordinate is greater than or equal to $3900, the floor is deactivated, and gets reactivated again when the Y coordinate is greater than $800 and the X coordinate is greater than or equal to $3A40.
Sonic's section starts rising when the player is below and to the right of position $36D0, $A80, by 6/16 pixels per frame for a total of $1D0 pixels. After reaching X position $3D50, it will rise at 1 pixel per frame. Knuckles' section starts rising when the player is below and to the right of position $38A0, $400, also by 6/16 pixels per frame, for a total of $220 pixels. When the player is to the right of and above position $3C80, $200, it too will start rising at 1 pixel per frame.
So this basically means you have to make sure you go up above Y position $80 while you are to the left of X position $3800 to have the floor remain nonsolid. You can track which section you are in with the word at $FFEED2. 0 means that you are not in either floor section. 4 means that you are in Knuckles' section, and 8 means you are in Sonic's section.
Edit: $FFEED4 tracks the amount of pixels that the floor has risen. If you're coming from the right you can deactivate the floor by entering the bonus stage.
That is basically what I have in my notes; but with me moving to France, accessing those notes are difficult.
You missed the fact that the rising terrain also affects the y position directly, which is most noticeable when you are not on the ground or in a mode which disables normal terrain collision routines. This causes Tails to rise during the score tally in the Tails TAS, and a also allows him to hit the boss more times (and hugely complicates the fight...). This effect can probably be useful in many cases (but remember that you can't zip while the terrain is rising).
If I understood well, while I not entering first Sonic's rising floor area the solid wall in the roof in Knuckles path still not solid? I did a test in real time and seems it works, I need to test the complete ring attack route in real time after TASing it
This is MGZ 1 S+T max rings run
Link to video
too much rings for the hud :D, the real ring counter is 1046 rings.
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1697
Location: RU · ID · AM
TheYogWog,
I think one of the reasons of you being slower is that you stay still on ground too much when the camera is scrolling vertically, it moves a lot faster when you are in air. It makes sense to land onto the ground closer to the moment when the object begins interacting with you.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Another detail to note:
- When not inside either rising floor section, the background Y scroll position equals the foreground Y position multiplied by 3/16, and the X scroll position is 0.
- When in Knuckles' section, the background scroll position equals the foreground scroll position minus ($1E0, $3580).
- When in Sonic's section, the background scroll position equals the foreground scroll position minus ($8F0, $3200).
- After passing Sonic's section, the background Y scroll position equals the foreground Y position minus $500, then multiplied by 3/16, and the X scroll position is 0.
The parallaxing part of the background is $200 pixels high. and is always loaded from X position 0.
TheYogWog,
I think one of the reasons of you being slower is that you stay still on ground too much when the camera is scrolling vertically, it moves a lot faster when you are in air. It makes sense to land onto the ground closer to the moment when the object begins interacting with you.
Yes, thats 1 of the things I fixed, other improvement is the ground strance at 0:49 (I discovered it accidentally and very usefull to use it here) and better use of Tails - 1:15 as example: tails grab the 3 rings down here, so do not waste time with the screen warp glitch.
and thanks HHS for the MGZ2 wall explanation, very useful!
I did a RTA test in MGZ2 and Theyogwog route don't interfere with the wall in the roof in KTE path, still non-solid, so yeah is possible 100% rings in MGZ 2 as S+T without manipulate the wall luckily
Kaan55 made a ring attack run in LBZ2 with S+T
Link to video
He resetting the boundary with the bonus stage to enter later en Knuckles area, as you can see, he got the bubble shield with the signpost monitors of the previous ACT to survive Knuckles path
Edit: Replaced old run with a better improved
Smooth moves, slick. Seriously. Wow.
The way you handled KTE's Robotnik cutscene, among many other things, blew my mind a little, and that ending -- fantastic! I think this is hands-down your best work, or at least the most entertaining level, so far.
Thanks man, to be honest I also get dizzy when I see it in real time beyond knowing what I did XD, this TAS is really brain-exploding
Other thing: If you have already pre-planned routes in other zones in you old notes, feel free to share them, all help is welcome :D
Yes, I will do that sometime in the next few days.
I'm curious, about how many hours would you say you spent on that act? And how many rerecords?
Also, you mentioned doing a difficult rings video tutorial. I think that's a great idea (why didn't I ever think of that?) and I encourage you to do it, when you get a chance. As for me, I'm now thinking about getting to work on a written rings guide - everything anyone could possibly want to know about S3K's rings - that I feel should exist by now on the internet, not because anyone will ever read it, which I'm sure they won't, but simply just because. Maybe I'll put it on GameFAQs... someday. In the meanwhile, I'll be happy to share what materials I have with you soon, as I said.
Well, without counting my semi-tas route check, this level takes me around 10/15 hours and 6000 rerecords. My TAS session have a duration about 1/4 hours depending on the day and my disposition this zone takes me 5 days to TASing it (not counting my semi-tas test run of course)
TheYogWog wrote:
Also, you mentioned doing a difficult rings video tutorial. I think that's a great idea (why didn't I ever think of that?) and I encourage you to do it, when you get a chance. As for me, I'm now thinking about getting to work on a written rings guide - everything anyone could possibly want to know about S3K's rings - that I feel should exist by now on the internet, not because anyone will ever read it, which I'm sure they won't, but simply just because. Maybe I'll put it on GameFAQs... someday. In the meanwhile, I'll be happy to share what materials I have with you soon, as I said.
A complete ring guide with video/descriptions sounds good, I really do not have much experience compiling videos with each other but sometimes I record some videos and I leave them in YT in case I lose the GMV
ExampleLink to video
I could make a playlist of how to grab the "unreachable/knuckles" rings in S3K as Sonic+Tails, I can record CNZ1 (Knuckles rings), ICZ2 (Sky rings), DEZ1 (gravitation rings and hidden room), SOZ1 - I have a video how to grab the 3 rings in the walls, but I do not know the step by step to do it, LRZ1 (Knuckles rings), LRZ2 (Knuckles rings - I have some ideas with the route including a bonus stage-bubble shield, but first I have to do some tests and then develop the route), FBZ1 (capsule rings, but I think is easy for 2 players), as example.
I know there are more "hard" rings but now they are the ones that I remember.
Edit: planned route for CNZ 1 = http://www.mediafire.com/view/8vohjiu32c5l9ni/CNZ1-ST-route.png#
LRZ2 (Knuckles rings - I have some ideas with the route including a bonus stage-bubble shield, but first I have to do some tests and then develop the route),
Edit: planned route for CNZ 1 = http://www.mediafire.com/view/8vohjiu32c5l9ni/CNZ1-ST-route.png#
Bonus stage shield, hm? Makes me nervous...
Don't forget those 3 rings above the triple monitor chamber near the end of CNZ1, by the gravity pads and wheel. There's no line drawn to them.
Here's those files.
This is a bit random and off-topic, but to any other S3K TASers out there, may I just ask, how do you feel the overall experience of having TASed S3K has influenced your opinion of the game?
Don't forget those 3 rings above the triple monitor chamber near the end of CNZ1, by the gravity pads and wheel. There's no line drawn to them.
Here's those files.
I know, press Ctrl + Z by accident.
Thanks for the routes too man, but I have doubts with ICZ2 one, Sonic can't pass trough the bridge by the up+carry glitch, I tested that. This forced me to do a different route, what do you think?
http://www.mediafire.com/view/ld770zy0td9r7ob/ST-route-ICZ2.png#
And.. well, TASing a Sonic game here I did see how really broken the game is, but it's fun at the same time :P
I'm not sure what bridge you mean? But your route's solid. The only thing is the backtracking on the lowest path. I remember that dilemma, too. It seems inevitable for ICZ2's eccentricities, which require things get done certain ways. But I know now why my old route is the way it is. It's a solution to this.
The idea is using slope glitch and then Tails to get KTE's 3 boss rings, then ejecting straight to the start of lowest path so it can be traveled without backtracking. Then of course using the mid- and upper-paths going back to and from Sonic's sub-boss, who gets skipped initially so the boundary doesn't form.
If the boundary does form for some reason then there's no point skipping the boss. However, in that case the mid- and upper-paths can be used to and from the checkpoint, and everything else is basically the same, and so the strategy should still work.
Evil_3D wrote:
I did see how really broken the game is, but it's fun at the same time :P
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1697
Location: RU · ID · AM
TheYogWog wrote:
Evil_3D wrote:
I did see how really broken the game is, but it's fun at the same time :P
Yeah, perfect imperfections.
I always find it fun how Sonic 3 is generally easier to TAS than Sonic 1 or especially than Sonic 2. Some things in this game even look like backdoors for TASers, like small pieces of floor where the floor is thin enough to glitch through it; and the overall changes like easier braking, ability to spindash instantly after lading (as Knuckles) as so on. Really, this looks like someone already knew about TAS at that time!
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
